Who has experience with nannys?

By which I mean professionally speaking.

Our family circumstances are changing and we simply need to reduce the contracted hours from 37 hours a week to 28 hours a week. Naturally that is a straightforward consultation/redundancy situation and I’m aware that the existing nanny has the right to take the new role if he/she wants it, i.e. you can’t not offer it to them.

But the devil is in the detail so:

How does the consultation process work; do I need to go through one (pretty sure we do).

How do you structure changes in contract with notice periods; if our nanny has a three month notice period, I’m guessing that means we cannot change the contract for three months. Is that so?

So far so boring. Now add in that she’s pregnant 😯 I know that has no bearing on the redundancy situation but it does make the whole situation far more complicated and sensitive!

Not helpful, but we are thinking about a nanny and it is all these things that scare me… so will just watch quietly.

Drop me a line, I can give you all the advice from our experience, which is almost all positive but it’s not without complications! The maternity thing is the interesting one. Remember that the law will (rightly) regard your nanny as an ’employee’ and all the rights accruing under employment law are (again rightly) applied to nannies. But bear in mind that employment law, in every other instance, covers the relationship between a business and its employees and you will never be a business when employing a nanny. You’re just a family trying to make it work.

To illustrate the point. A new parent is allowed to take, I think it’s up to 12, dependency days a year. This is where they can without notice not turn up to work because they have dependents. It’s not sick leave, so you don’t have to pay them (I don’t think) but neither can you sack them for taking it. It’s a minefield we are about to enter and we’re pretty anxious about it.

Pregnancy = make sure EVERYTHING is by the book!

Now, reducing someone’s hours is a reasonable thing to do. Variation of contract should sort that out. I would be surprised if it’s a 3 month change but will check with my wife (HR Consultant) later. How long have you employed her for? What hours does it say in the contract?

Surely the nanny isn’t an employee, but rather a contractor/self employed person?

Pregnancy = make sure EVERYTHING is by the book!

Precisely.

Thanks for the offer of help. The three month change thing is our stipulation as a notice period so I was guessing that any change to the contract would not be able to take effect for three months.

Surely the nanny isn’t an employee, but rather a contractor/self employed person?

I think there are a few cases where they are self employed but in the vast majority of cases they are always employees. That’s what makes them a nanny and not a child minder (that and they come to your home)

Surely you just get the Butler to deal with these domestic staffing issues ? 🙂

Yeah, just had a quick look at that. I have a different, but related interest as we clearly have “employed” a carer for my FIL who has dementia, and not engaged a self employed carer as we thought. Bollox.

Surely you just get the Butler to deal with these domestic staffing issues ?

Is that a job application?

we clearly have “employed” a carer for my FIL who has dementia

Have you been paying NI and PAYE then? You also have my sympathy for your father and his situation. My father has been diagnosed with early onset dementia and my mother is his carer but at some point that might have to change.

GT – no, we have been mistakenly operating under the assumption that we could consider her self employed and so have just been paying her and leaving her to sort PAYE etc for herself. Crap, guess we need to go back to the drawing board and get it all legitimised.

This excerpt from gov.uk is a little confusing mind? Sorry for hijacking BTW!

1. Overview

You’re usually considered the employer of a nanny, housekeeper, gardener or anyone else who works in your home if both:

1) you hire them
2) they’re not self-employed or paid through an agency

I suspect that unless there’s an invoice being submitted that you then pay you’ll be considered their employer (and even then, if they work exclusively for you over a period of time it gets complicated).

You’re usually considered the employer of a nanny, housekeeper, gardener or anyone else who works in your home if both:

1) you hire them
2) they’re not self-employed or paid through an agency

LOL that’s a tautology if ever there was one!

No worries on the tangential but entirely related question. It’s not a hijack.

Sounds like you’ve got a complicated issue to resolve. How did they come to be working with/for you? Our current nanny’s previous employer had always tried to insist that she was not an employee and therefore never paid her NI and PAYE. We helped her understand what her rights were and they were requied to pay four years of back NI and PAYE, or to put it another way, roughly the equivalent of a year’s actual salary! Ouch.

There’s all the auto-enroll pension stuff to consider in the near future too!

okay, so probably a 3 month change (for either side) so you’d need to stick to that although of course, she may agree to a change sooner which then means there is no issue with changing next week (as long as she does agree, you write to her to let her know and ideally, get agreement in writing)
What are the contracted hours? Min amount? Specific set ones? On agreement?
I know you’ve put 37 in your op, but I want to be sure that’s the case. Also, length of service makes a difference.

Hmm. I suggested from the outset that she gave us an invoice and we paid it, which is what we’ve been doing (more or less). However, we also pay her some expenses and mileage, but she does submit “claims” for them.

GT – she runs a local dementia group (or 2!) and is a loose friend of the OHs extended family. She initially did a day here and there to give family a bit of respite, but it has gradually grown in to full time care (live in).

There’s all the auto-enroll pension stuff to consider in the near future too!

True although that is more of an administrative headache than a cost one. The reality is that the cost for most employers is going to be pretty small, probably around £300-500 a year (which when it costs around £30k gross to employ a nanny outside of London, isn’t that much).

I’d get professional advice Woody2000 – live in sounds very much like ’employed solely by you’ to me as a non-lawyer.

Cheers – I’ll back out now and let the thread get back on track 🙂

I know you’ve put 37 in your op, but I want to be sure that’s the case. Also, length of service makes a difference.

She’s been employed now for two years and five months (it really does not seem that long!) She is contracted to work 37 hours a week and her salary reflects this, but we have the option to flex that and carry over unused hours from one week to another but always within a calander month. After that, unused hours are considered ‘spent’.

This is really important to us as some weeks she only works maybe 30 hours and others it needs to be 40. Over the course of the last two years though, she has only worked about 85% of the hours contracted.

OK, so looking at it, with proof, The hours are in reality 31.5hrs / week. This is because it has become ‘custom and practice’ and these hours are by default, acceptable.
This will allow you to do a 3.5hrs variation.
Now, as she’s worked for you for a fair while, and you do want to be reasonable, the right course (in my opinion) is to consult with her. Let her know what the issue is, talk he through the reality of the hours she’s getting (as opposed to the contracted) and explain that you simply can’t justify (afford) the additional 9 however, as she will be aware, she hasn’t been working them.
She is entitled to 3 months notice however as I said above, you can reach an agreement with her that supersedes this.
All other maternity benefits (days off, additional parental weeks etc) ahe will be due.
What will seem crazy to you, is that while she may well take 9 months off, is that she doesn’t need to return at the end, and she does not need to tell you – in fact, you can’t really ask until you get closer to the time….

Oh, and for those above who believe that getting her o invoice means she’s self employed – wrong. She’s an employee no matter what. As a sole employer, you’re actually responsible for paying her tax an NI, she gets the holiday, sick etc that would otherwise be due.