Your thoughts on this please.

Got my LBS to replace the rims on my touring wheels. When I got them back I put them in the frame and spun them. The front was fine but the back was visibly out of true even before I moved the pads in for a better reference. Further investigation revealed a wobble of about 2mm. Took them back and was told that they were ‘within industry standards’ that ‘cytech wheel building courses specify that anything within 3mm is acceptable’ and ‘getting them to within 1mm is virtually impossible.’

I’ve never seen or heard anything like that before but maybe I’ve just been lucky with wheels or used better builders in the past?

That’s not right – sounds like a poor build.

Er, no. Definitely not acceptable.

I was kind of curious about this 3mm ‘industry standard’ he quoted because that’s a pretty massive wobble to my mind! Wonder if it’s come from somewhere or if it was just BS?

cytech wheel building courses specify that anything within 3mm is acceptable

Very much doubt it.

getting them to within 1mm is virtually impossible

Absolute bollocks.

Sounds like BS to me, a friend of mine laces all the wheels for Inspired trials bikes and he can get a bombproof wheel straight as anything in his front room!

Crikey, I got well under 1mm pretty much by eye on all the (5 or 6) wheels I’ve built, and I’m not a patient man

3mm would be no big deal on a disc wheel but it’s pretty poor on a rim-braked bike, from a “professional”

I don’t know what the Cytech standard is, but I get them well under 1mm, 0.5mm typically I guess or less depending on the rim. Disc-only rims without machined sidewalls can be tricky to get to that sometimes, but 3mm is just ridiculous.

Thanks guys, you’ve confirmed what I really already knew. I’ll take it up with the gaffer.

I use the on one stand with the dial gauges. The biggest deflection is always the rim stickers 🙂

The biggest deflection is always the rim stickers

Yeah, you should hear the sticker clicking on the gauge and nothing else. Anything more then the width of a credit card is unacceptable for a professional build with new components.

new components.

To be fair it was a used hub and spokes.

That’s worse than my builds and I have only half a clue.

It is BS – the old British Standard for new bikes would allow something like 2mm lateral truth and 5mm radial but there’s no way a competent wheelbuilder would let a wheel go out like that, never mind charging money for it. The fact they couldn’t get it true would also make me worry that it hadn’t been tensioned correctly.

The fact they couldn’t get it true would also make me worry that it hadn’t been tensioned correctly.

I’m no expert but I thought there were quite wide differences in the tension in the non drive side spokes.

Nope, all the spokes on each side should have roughly even tension.

So there will be a difference right to left. But not between each spoke on none drive side

Further investigation revealed a wobble of about 2mm. Took them back and was told that they were ‘within industry standards’ that ‘cytech wheel building courses specify that anything within 3mm is acceptable’ and ‘getting them to within 1mm is virtually impossible.’

Woohoo! Where do I apply to to get my Cytech certificate? My current wheel is easily up to scratch according to that, and I haven’t even trued it yet!

😀

You may have ended up with a wheel assembler, rather than a builder…….

You may have ended up with a wheel assembler, rather than a builder…….

I was a bit nervous about using them the first time but they build me a mtb wheel and a crosser one which have been bang on. I’ve got a suspicion that a different builder did this one.

I do my own wheels with a jig and a dial gauge. It’s not hard to get them to 0.5 or even 0.3mm

Where in the UK are you? There are some really good wheel builders about.

C

Where in the UK are you? There are some really good wheel builders about.

Not so many in the Highlands. I’ve actually built a few myself in the past. It’s really just a time issue now but if I’m spending this kind of time sorting out shop builds I might need to start again!

‘cytech wheel building courses specify that anything within 3mm is acceptable’
I believe that is the case. Which kind of devalues the Cytech thing for me.
You should return them and ask for them to be checked over.

Crikey, I’m disappointed if I’m at 0.5mm.

Which kind of devalues the Cytech thing for me

I’ve never been convinced by the whole CyTech thing.

I believe that is the case.

Wow. That is an unbelievably low standard.

The CTC Bike Hire standards are 3mm radial and/or lateral. That’s dated 1999 but I don’t think they’ve ever been updated.

Edit: I should add that we apply a much higher standard to our fleet.

think if I used 3mm as the tolerance for the wheels I build my boss would replace me.
If they have built good wheels before go back and have a word but not a shouty rant none of us get paid enough for that

Ctech don’t set the standards they just reach you what is required by British standards etc.

My ctech course we were aiming to get them within 0.1mm…

For me 0.3 is fine but with far more care to even tension

That’s unbelievable.

I’ve built a grand total of 4 wheels in my life, so I’m no master wheel builder. I’ll take 0.5mm lateral and 1mm radial and it’s really not that difficult. As stated above you should be able to hear the ‘click’ as the rim label passes the gauge.

Find yourself another builder – or spend the money on a wheel jig. Or just make one as I have

Roger Musson in his ebook “Wheel Building” recommends 0.2mm lateral trueness and 0.5mm radial trueness. Depending on the quality of rims I usually achieve this relatively easily with a bit of care in the final tensioning, using a dial gauge obviously.

True wheels are easy , true wheels with even tension can be a pain somtimes
Imo it’s the even tension that will make a reliable wheel

Roger Musson’s book is what I’ve used and I’d highly recommend it

orangeboy is right; pulling a wheel true is easy, doing it with even tension each side take a bit more patience.

3mm? I get that tolerance by lacing them and taking up the slack before I even start truing them.

Back for a little more advice.

I don’t have jig at home but I’ve tried looking at the rim with a zip tie on the stay to check the wobble. Sometimes it looks like there’s about 2mm of wobble other times it looks OK. What could be causing this? Is it just the shonkyness of doing it without a jig? Could it be a bend in the axle or some crud in the drop outs? It’s certainly about 2mm out vertically, could I be confusing this for a lateral wobble?

Thanks again.