AD – I lived on the other side of the Solway Firth for a great many years. Quality of life is pretty good, but a change of politics could make it a lot better.

and start planning for the next referendum.

I thought this was a once in a lifetime opportunity?

I thought this was a once in a lifetime opportunity?

Westminster might arrange it so we never get another chance – but if it’s a no vote there’s still going to be a lot of people unwilling to just forget the independence idea.

They can move to the Isle of Man.

At first I thought this was a troll but I think it might be serious.

I’m in the fortunate position to make enough money to live on, and have a decent quality of life. From my pov a yes outcome puts that at more risk than a no vote, so for me voting no is a no brainer.

I have a lot of friends and some family who are voting yes though. We’ll see I guess.

[/quote] but if it’s a no vote there’s still going to be a lot of people unwilling to just forget the independence idea.

So ben, if it is a no vote are you hoping that the people of Scotland ‘continue to suffer’ to prove a point? You did previously say that you would support devo max if it was meaningful. Are you hoping this fails at the first hurdle?

I have my quotes the wrong way round!

We’ve not been offered Devo Max, so I don’t think that situation will arise.

No we have not, however other parts of the UK are now looking to Scotland and thinking things can change for us all. In the result of a No vote do you hope devolution does not happen to support an independence agenda?

So you would prefer Scottish wages to be lower, because you are all going to take it easy, and not work that hard ?

That will mean not as much tax revenue so services won’t be as good. Plus things will be more expensive so you won’t be able to afford nice things (luxuries like bikes) or decent food.

Eventually your health will suffer from eating nothing but deep fried mars bars and you will need the NHS, but then the NHS won’t be there as 1. There is no tax revenue to pay for it 2. The NHS in Scotland used to be subsidised by Whitehall, and you quite politely told us to f-off.

It’s a nice romantic gesture that Scotlandshire can become in independent and life will be great, but the reality is you will all have to generate more revenue to stay afloat.

My gas engineer works 7days/all hours. Mental.

I think you’ll need to agree how “quality of life” is measured before you can do this equation. Is it a new merc every year and a holiday in vegas and or good food and some friends to share it with or something else altogether. You’ll also need to agree what “money” is, someone on benefits in the UK would be considered wealthy on most of the world.

No we have not, however other parts of the UK are now looking to Scotland and thinking things can change for us all. In the result of a No vote do you hope devolution does not happen to support an independence agenda?

Depends. If proper federalism happens, then as I’ve said all along I’d vote No. But we’ve not been offered that, we’ve not been offered Devo Max, what we have been offered is maybe some more tax raising powers – and they’re a poison chalice, meaning actually less money for Scotland instead of more.

So I hope the devolution that’s being offered doesn’t happen. I hope it doesn’t happen because we vote Yes, but if it’s a No then I hope it doesn’t happen because it’s a very bad deal for Scotland. Not because of an independence agenda.

I would rather good health.
– Sometimes more money is required to maintain or regain good health.
– Sometimes more time is required to maintain or regain good health.

money = time
time = money

It’s ridiculous to assume the English are trying to convince younof the dangers of nor having a Merc and Vegas holidays. Do you think that’s what they are all about?

When we warn about economics we are talking about having a job, healthcare and a pension, and social security.

Traded money for a better quality of life 14 years ago. Moved north-ish so we could afford to have a family on just one salary(or two small/part time salaries). Been great watching the kids grow, having cheap but fun UK holidays, start school, get involved with activities that a lot of parents miss out on. Wondered why I spent so long chasing money and then wasting it.

Eldest now at secondary, youngest not as dependent either. Cost of living has shot up, costs of activities, trips and uniforms for the kids has also gone up.

I’m now 10 years into a rut of a job that I hate, has no prospects and has left me deskilled to go back to the private sector. Starting to look at training to break the cycle and start to move on again, but a bit more money would be nice!

It’s ridiculous to assume the English are trying to convince younof the dangers of nor having a Merc and Vegas holidays. Do you think that’s what they are all about?

When we warn about economics we are talking about having a job, healthcare and a pension, and social security.

You are either trolling or stupid.

Oh yeah? Well you are being needlessly inflammatory.

Don’t know if he’s stupid but certainly missed the point, suspect it was an eagerness to continue an argument that exists only in his head.

Ok – assuming you are serious. This “English” you speak of – are you saying that they are all experts on economics and predicting the future? What about the Welsh and Northern Irish? Are you saying that you and all of the people living in England are an expert on Scottish economics because that is what your post suggests. Are you saying that you personally know more about Scotland, its future and what its people want and aspire to than those of us who live here? Are you expecting us to believe a word that vested interests tell us? The only jobs, healthcare, pensions and social security that you are worried about are those in your area.

So I’ll rephrase and change my statement – you are either trolling or think we’re stupid.

No I think you missed my point, wan.

The original question seems to contain a strong yes subtext. That is, if you vote no on economic grounds you must be avaricious and materialistic. Some people in the yes camp seem to be saying ‘well life is good, I don’t need any more money so why should I worry about economics?’

To have a good quality of life you don’t need tons of money, but you need enough to keep the worries away. This is not guaranteed in the UK and won’t be guaranteed in Scotland either.

The only jobs, healthcare, pensions and social security that you are worried about are those in your area.

Seriously – WHAT?

It’s ridiculous to assume the English are trying to convince younof the dangers of nor having a Merc and Vegas holidays. Do you think that’s what they are all about?
When we warn about economics we are talking about having a job, healthcare and a pension, and social security.

You wrote that…. What do you mean by it with regards to my questions.

Can you just answer my questions and try to keep up with the debate.

I did, I thought?

Why on earth did you write that tirade against my character?

You didn’t even attempt to answer the questions, possibly didnt even recognise that there were questions there. I’ll bullet point them:

1) This “English” you speak of – are you saying that they are all experts on economics and predicting the future?

2) What about the Welsh and Northern Irish?

3) Are you saying that you and all of the people living in England are an expert on Scottish economics?

4) Are you saying that you personally know more about Scotland, its future and what its people want and aspire to than those of us who live here?

5) Are you expecting us to believe a word that vested interests tell us?

Simple questions with short answers available.

“The only jobs, healthcare, pensions and social security that you are worried about are those in your area.” That can hardly be called a tirade against your character.

I have no idea why you are asking me these things. They weren’t anything to do with my post, but since you ask:

1) No, obviously.
2) What about them?
3) No, obviously.
4) I don’t know.
5) Am I expecting you to? Well, that’s a better question. Simply disagreeing with someone BECAUSE they have a vested interest is very poor thinking. Someone might well be simply lying to cash in, but they might just as well be honest and correct. You can’t separate the two just by looking at vested interests. Also be aware that SNP have vested interests just as much as Westminster does.

That can hardly be called a tirade against your character.

It’s calling me selfish, which by my standards is a pretty grevious insult.

When I read these threads and one of the main contributors starts being antagonistic and rude in their replies to opposing views…in my opinion anything they’ve said on the subject becomes irrelevant.

It’s almost as if they don’t understand the concept of debate.

McHamish – I guess there is a possibility that people who have not had the opportunity to become as refined as your good self have opinions too maybe..?
whatever next?
votes for women?

It’s just nicer to be polite rather than including thinly veiled digs in your responses.

In my opinion of course.

1) No, obviously.
2) What about them?
3) No, obviously.
4) I don’t know.
5) Am I expecting you to? Well, that’s a better question. Simply disagreeing with someone BECAUSE they have a vested interest is very poor thinking. Someone might well be simply lying to cash in, but they might just as well be honest and correct. You can’t separate the two just by looking at vested interests. Also be aware that SNP have vested interests just as much as Westminster does.

If that is the answer to those questions why did you write:

It’s ridiculous to assume the English are trying to convince younof the dangers of nor having a Merc and Vegas holidays. Do you think that’s what they are all about?
When we warn about economics we are talking about having a job, healthcare and a pension, and social security.

This bit in particular

When we warn about economics we are talking about having a job, healthcare and a pension, and social security.

I hope the Scott’s vote yes, Scotland prospers and everyone lives happily ever after.
That failing I would rather they vote yes and fail miserably as an independent country and become the benefactees of a blue peter appeal.
Than them stay now, as I am sick of them whingeing and the party leaders going up there cap in hand begging for them to stay promising more powers if they did got on my tits aswell.

They should have turned up with balloons and a six pack wearing party hats and blowing party horns saying we have come early for the Independence Party at Alex’s house.

Good post Chip.

On the original question, I am skint but content.

Maybe if I was not content I would strive for a greater personnel wealth,
But then I would not be content.

Tom_W1987 – Member
Out of interest. How will Scotland being Independent lead to a better quality of life?
People might think that they have more control over their lives. Fairly basic tenant of psychology. delusion.

FTFY

I’ve been skint and at proper rock bottom.

I`ve been better off than that and still struggling

I`ve since been lucky enough to have some decent jobs and contracts too

What I have learned is:

Serenity is much easier with the bills paid 8)

Perhaps a better question is would you rather experience the deepest recession for many years or would you rather go further and experience the full Iceland.. How would your quality of life be affected by the latter?

People might think that they have more control over their lives. Fairly basic tenant of psychology. delusion.

So just because people have different beliefs to you they are delusional. That’s the second time in as many days that someone has used psychiatric illness as a descriptor for those on the yes side of the fence. Yesterday it was the Torygraph and dementia: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/11090644/Scottish-independence-Glasgow-the-friendly-city-turns-demented.html

Classy. If you want to come and see what people with delusions and/or dementia are really like go and work in a care of the elderly ward for a day. You would probably cry and would be very ashamed of your comments.

So if they vote yes, they can hide their own Easter eggs.

someone has used psychiatric illness as a descriptor for those on the yes side

From watching the clip I would hardly describe that as rational behaviour.

You would probably cry and would be very ashamed of your comments.

I think you being a bit over sensitive. The words mad, crazy, mental etc. are used all the time to describe a lot of things that are well short of real mental illness.

So just because people have different beliefs to you they are delusional.

No, but to imply that is what I said is delusional. HTH

And demented? The OED

INFORMAL , chiefly British Behaving irrationally due to anger, distress, or excitement:

So the problem is?

I was doing a well paid job in the South East. A few months ago I gave it up and moved to Scotland and I’m on minimum wage. Never been happier.

I’m voting no, as for me Scotland is already a fantastic place to live and if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

One thing is sure though, after Thursday we will still be ruled by a bunch of odious, self serving slimeballs whichever city they happen to meet in.

I refer you to Douglas Adams and the lizards…