My dennon hifi has died, I was pumping the output from my TV through it, and was reasonably happy with the results. However now it is gone I would like to go for the full surround sound.

I don’t know if what I want actually exists. I don’t keep up with this stuff.

Budget 500 absolute max
play music through stereo speakers as well as
Able to wire in my current stereo speakers.
add center, subwoofer and surround speakers later.
wi-fi/bluetooth for surround speakers.

So what options are there?

Depends if you want 5.1 or 7.1. Wifi enabled? Yamaha and onkyo are good. If you got a richer sounds near to you. For the budget you got, could include a decent centre and small rears.

I have a pioneer that does what you want. It has the outputs for the 5.1 surround and has a separate pair for stereo speakers which you switch between on the amplifier. I’m not sure which model I have but have a look on the pioneer website and look for speakers b output or zone 2 I think they call it.
As with most things amps are very subjective and you will get recommendations for most brands. I have always liked pioneer.

If you want a Denon AVR-1312 in mint condition for £50 then message me 🙂

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/tvs-entertainment/av-receivers/51006/denon-avr-1312-review

If any of those allow wireless rear speakers they don’t make it very clear.

cant think of any that have wireless speakers. Whole point of a big AV amp is it powers all speakers directly. You would be looking more at some sort of one box bluray system with wireless speakers.

Or hook up some sort of wireless speaker system to the rear pre-outs if it has some.

Got my eye on the new Atmos denon AVR on sale for £379. I nearly got the previous one last year as it was very cheap due to being a bit overshadowed by other amps but the new one is getting good reviews. Might see it it comes down a bit more as not in any rush.

Could maybe add bluetooth capability with something like this :

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-Transmitter-TaoTronics-Portable-Wireless/dp/B00Q2EGQQU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1451300960&sr=8-1&keywords=bluetooth+speaker+transmitter

or this

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Marmitek-Audio-Anywhere-625-Wireless/dp/B00AMDV6IU/ref=lp_1676584031_1_3?srs=1676584031&ie=UTF8&qid=1451301275&sr=8-3

Yamaha and Onkyo are the go-to amps, fantastic vfm, just about every connection you could want, powerful, well built, but it’s highly unlikely you’ll get any form of wireless setup, wifi would be the only system that would give acceptable performance, Bluetooth won’t do multi-speaker, afaik, and I’m pretty sure wifi wouldn’t either. For your budget on the amp you’ll get a very good amp, but you’ll need to factor in some satellite speakers and a sub.
Use your existing speakers as they are, for the time being, but look on eBay or somewhere for a set of small satellite + sub going cheap; they don’t have to be extra high quality, or that large, and also a good length of some reasonable speaker cable, not thin bell-wire, but something like 39-strand, as good as anything for the money.
Hmmm, a quick Google does show that there are wireless systems around, KEF do one, but that isn’t going to be a budget system; this might give you some pointers to something that might be the way to go: http://www.practical-home-theater-guide.com/wireless-speakers-systems.html
Yamaha and Denon seem to be best under £500, Yam at £280-ish, and Denon at £500: http://www.whathifi.com/best-buys/best-home-cinema-amplifiers

I’d stop and think before proceeding.

In my experience surround sounds amps just don’t do stereo very well

We went fro a basic Onkyo reciever (520?) and its great for the tv but much less good for stereo music

I’d be tempted to buy a cambridge audio amp for your stereo amp fo the current set up and then start from scratch for the surround sound

Sonos do wireless set up but not cheap

http://www.sonos.com/en-gb/products/wireless-home-cinema

In my experience surround sounds amps just don’t do stereo very well

you know, I’m increasingly convinced this is a myth perpetuated by AV reviewers and people trying to sell you a new amp. Or at the very least, out-of-date advice.

Think about it, it beggars logic; if an amp can drive eight speakers sufficiently well to please your average audiophile, why should it suddenly fail to cut the mustard when only driving two? Pish and nonsense.

We went fro a basic Onkyo reciever (520?) and its great for the tv but much less good for stereo music

My Yamaha is 5.1, but works fine in stereo, when I switch effects off it operates as just a stereo amp, with the sub and the front l/r satellite pair. I’ve been using it like that for ten years or more, and I’m perfectly happy with it.

A month ago I purchased a Yamaha RXV 479 5.1 Surround amp with 4 Tannoy speakers + sub from Richer Sounds. Well pleased with the service and advice from them and the amp is superb with all the options you require.
As said above a pure Hi Fi enthusiast would go down a different route for his music, but for me I think this amp sounds great for Ipod music and TV.
The whole package was £520

you know, I’m increasingly convinced this is a myth perpetuated by AV reviewers and people trying to sell you a new amp. Or at the very least, out-of-date advice.

This based on my experience. No science just completely different systems. The receiver is not even close the old system. It is odd as the music sounds so good if its in a film.

But a receiver needs 150% more amplification circuits and alot of old tat that the basic audio amp doesn’t have to have

Think about it, it beggars logic; if an amp can drive eight speakers sufficiently well to please your average audiophile, why should it suddenly fail to cut the mustard when only driving two? Pish and nonsense.

Problem is generally twofold.

1) People don’t generally compare apples with apples. What they mean is a surround amp won’t outperform a stereo amp at a similar price point. Which will be almost universally true – aside from poor design, you have a much smaller BOM size so can use better components.

2) Surround amps pack lots more electronics into the box, which in itself raises engineering challenges which don’t exist for stereo. Some (such as superfluous A/D or D/A) are much less relevant now, but most still apply.

*presses Direct button*

*enjoys stereo music without superfluous filters and a lot of old tat*

Seriously, it’s surely audiophile snake oil. Stereo amps are aurally better because they’re more basic?

Yes.

It is much easier to fully electrical isolate two channels than 6 or 8 so on a good stereo amp much less cross channel interference is possible.

Less stuff in the box, easier to isolate and less interference from other stuff. For example my old amp had a very large main transformer for each channel and was laid out such that both channels were mirror image of each other on separate circuit boards this very little cross channel noise. Try achieving that in a multi – channel set up.

This is why monoblocs are still made. One channel a box and competely isolated from the other channel(s).

No snake oil, just basic electronic theory. Some audiophile stuff is snake oil but by no means not all. For example the reason why some cables sound different to others (note I have not said better) is their impedence will interact slightly differently with the input / output impedances of the sources. Some sources have very high impedences, some lower and depending on the impedence of the cable this will have an effect of sound. Again, note I am not saying ££££ cable is better but can and will sound different.