@damascus – Was just thinking that you could instead eat your cereal from one of those bags and then not have to worry about carrying the extra weight and also the headache of not being able to wash it up.

I am going to go through my recent gear and see what I didn’t use and what I did use that I could have done without.

Make three piles: the kit you used; the emergency kit; the kit you didn’t use. Write down what’s in each list.

Next trip don’t take what you didn’t use last time.

Repeat.

After a few trips you’ll have a lightweight setup without spending anything! Then start looking at lighter alternatives to what you do take.

Here’s an article on reducing your load without needing to spend cash – https://www.bearbonesbikepacking.co.uk/tls-the-revolutionary-packing-system/

Always eat out – that’s part of the fun!

I like to feed my little stove with twigs and bring some hot choc to boil, listening to owls, foxes and wotnot. I’ll grab the odd pub lunch but cooking a local egg and grilled mackerel at sunrise is a joy for me. I can eat out when not camping. ymmv

@flanagaj

They are really useful. They open up so are free standing and have a zip lock.

I put my pasta/cous cous in them, add water, close lid and leave and do other things. When I come back its cooked and the right temperature to eat. I can then use my pot for a cup of tea. Means I don’t need to take a mug or bowl.

Its also useful when sharing a cooker as you can store hot water. Works for cereal too. I’ve even cracked eggs into them from an honesty stall so I can cook them later.

I’ve just done a 4 day road tour with ortlieb panniers, I’d forgotten how heavy just the panniers are. I wasn’t prepared for hot weather and didn’t have a good, lightweight summer sleeping bag so had to take my normal one. It can get expensive when you need summer kit and rest of the year kit.

My set up of tent, exped mat XL (I’m 6ft3) sleeping bag etc is probably double the weight of some on here but I hate midges and being bitten and I value a good night’s sleep and sometimes I’ll stay at a campsite to get a shower and I don’t like being starred at when sleeping in a bag under a tarp with my wheels holding it up.

But I don’t do racing, if I did then I’d have to start again with all my kit.

@damascus – I’ll definitely try a pack on the next trip. On my trips I have always struggled with finding small UHT cartons as I have to have cereal and coffee with milk. This time though I took the Nestle Nido full fat milk powder. I was blown away by just how good it tasted in cereal and coffee.

@whitestone the below is a very interesting read

https://www.bearbonesbikepacking.co.uk/tls-the-revolutionary-packing-system/

Considering I took a pump and 2 * CO2 cartridges on my recent trip, as well as a fork, spoon, knife, small plastic cutting board and 3 pot Alpkit pot system. Of which the CO2 cartridges, fork, chopping board and one of the alpkit pots were not used means I could definitely cut the gear down.

You don’t quite realise how saving 50 – 100 grams here and there can add up to a significant amount.

I have never considered a meths stove as I have always thought they look like it takes an age to boil water, but given my current setup of an Alpkit Koro + Alpkit MytiStax + Gas Canister weighs 124g + 272g + 360g = 756g! and I only use it to boil water for coffee and rehydrate the Expedition Foods meals then I can probably save a lot of weight by going meths stove and single 450ml pot.

Has anyone binned the gas canister setup for a meths stove and if so, is there anything I need to be aware of?

@flanagaj

Buy a digital scales and weigh everything..

Its amazing how soon things add up.

Its easy to pick a bag up when you are fresh and think its not that heavy but when you add water and tired legs it can make a difference.

@damascus

Buy a digital scales and weigh everything..

Its amazing how soon things add up.

Its easy to pick a bag up when you are fresh and think its not that heavy but when you add water and tired legs it can make a difference.

It’s on my todo list for this weekend. Oh, I also forgot to add that I didn’t use my Sawyer water filter either. This is getting embarrassing. Especially, given I am not new to this!

The biggest problem I have with meths is getting it warm enough to ignite. It’s a complete no-go in winter.

The biggest problem I have with meths is getting it warm enough to ignite. It’s a complete no-go in winter.

Same here.

To be honest, since I got a jetboil (basically as a fast kettle for making brews while supervising DofE) I just use that for everything and just live with the weight penalty. I’m aware that it’s not necessarily the optimal solution but I just prefer the speed and the lack of faff.

FWIW, my packing refinement system has alrgely relied on me forgetting to take something that I thought was essential and then finding it really wasn’t. It’s not a great system though, as it does often involve forgetting something actually essential (eg, getting to a 2 week climbing trip in Lofoten and finding we’d forgotten one of the ropes).

My setup is a lot heavier than yours. Don’t know exact figures, but usually my touring set up consists of 4 panniers, handlebar bag, tent on top of rear rack and a small saddle bag.

Could I go lighter? Definitely, but when I’m touring I’m in no rush and would happily carry a few extra kilos for just in case scenarios than take the bare minimum. But that’s my preference. Its definitely not the best way to do it, especially if you want to go fast, but I am happy with what I take and happy to go slowly, and that’s what matters to me.

For example my tent is probably 3.5kg, it’s 2-3 man, with a small entrance porch, which is completely overkill for just myself, some would be horrified with such a weight and size. But I like the extra space and like having a entrance porch which gives me plenty of storage space, and it allows me to cook in there when it’s raining heavily without getting soaking.

Not exactly comparative but it is touring… I’ve just packed for 3 night/4 day Credit Card touring at a record (for me) 1.6kg.

Which is; trousers, T shirt, pants, spare socks, spare bibs, down jacket, flip flops, wash kit and seat pack. Nothing else.

Staying in digs in summer is a change and allows you to get quit brutal with the shite you carry. Wouldn’t suit anything a bit more remote/colder tho…

The biggest problem I have with meths is getting it warm enough to ignite. It’s a complete no-go in winter.

Tried a wick? Increases surface area

The biggest problem I have with meths is getting it warm enough to ignite. It’s a complete no-go in winter.

I just stick it in my jacket pocket for ten minutes prior to use and leave it in the bottom of my sleeping bag over night.

We went from gas stove to meths.

The trick with meths is to warm *everything* up beforehand. The stove is so light and has so little mass that it warms up in your hand really quickly. The meths takes a little longer depending on the size of the container – I’ve plastic bottles about 50-100ml capacity.

Then for lighting I just carry a very small plastic bag of lint from the drying machine. Drop a piece of that into the stove and light it.

Cold isn’t really the problem with meths, it’s wind. There’s a guy in the States whose YouTube channel I follow, he’ll make a coffee in the morning using a meths stove at -20C or colder. He’ll have the meths bottle in a chest pocket to keep it warm (sounds like a wino not a camper!). I’ve used it down to -6C without problem.

Meths is definitely slower than gas or petrol but then are you rushing? And you can be doing other things during that time.

Create a spreadsheet with the weights of *everything* – I just use old fashioned scales and round (up) to the nearest 5g. Mine is organised into groups, so bivy kit; cooking; tools; etc. It is surprising just how heavy some “lightweight” kit really is.

As I said earlier it’s much easier, and cheaper, to go lighter by *not* taking stuff than replacing what you have with something new.

One thing about those dehydrated meals: the packaging is for the retail environment, before heading off, open them up and repackage in a suitably sized ziplock freezer bag (pour and store) they won’t go off in the day or two before you get to eat them. Means they pack much better.

Am I weird because I see loads of pic on things like KAW faceache group where a group of 2 has camped with two tents. I have shown someone at work some pics of trips with my mate and they said ” what, you shared a tent?”

I always share a tent if possible. I have a LAN Shan teepee which weighs 1.5kg and sleeps 2 easily, can be lighter if you don’t take the inner, we share a meths stove, 1 pan between us, we can economise on tools too, but he’s a rohloff weirdo so less easy.

Struggling to decide whether to take inner tent on King Alfred’s way at begining of August.

Am I weird because I see loads of pic on things like KAW faceache group where a group of 2 has camped with two tents.

I think that’s pretty weird too. I saw a group the other day, 4 people, 4 tents. Would save a load of weight with 2 2-man tents.

I don’t get it, sharing tents is lighter, warmer, and safer.

One thing about those dehydrated meals: the packaging is for the retail environment, before heading off, open them up and repackage in a suitably sized ziplock freezer bag (pour and store) they won’t go off in the day or two before you get to eat them. Means they pack much better.

Great tip!

Re: meths stoves,
Yes, wind is an issue, i once burned through about 200ml of fuel, while simultaneously failing to actually boil the water for a brew.
On a relatively warm summer day.
The wind was a light breeze, so i think that a windshield is required.
One of the reasons i mostly use a jetboil nowadays.

I saw a group the other day, 4 people, 4 tents. I don’t get it, sharing tents is lighter, warmer, and safer.

Covid?

The wind was a light breeze, so i think that a windshield is required.
One of the reasons i mostly use a jetboil nowadays.

A windshield is pretty much essential with a meths stove but even with one it will still be way lighter and less bulky than a jetboil.

Well my setup goes like this;

Child 1 18kg
Child 2 15kg
Trailer 14kg
…
And after that its fairly academic whether you cut your toothbrush down. On the plus side it means luxuries like cans of beer and mocha espresso pot are justifiable!

OT in a way but about losing some weight still,

tri bars (need these for taking the weight off the hands)

Is that because you’re riding really long days back to back, or because your bike fit isn’t as good as it could be? Your position on the bike shouldn’t be pitching you onto your hands too much anyway and drop bars should be providing enough changes of grip for it not to be a problem. TCR / TD / TransAm etc justifies tri bar use as the hours are long and plenty of opportunity to use them but for regular bikepacking they might not be worth their weight or be making up for fit issues?

Your bike has a lot of the bag bulk (assume weight also) held a long way from the steerer on those tri bars, I can’t imagine that handles too well. If you go lighter you may be able to ditch the tri bars as well as get the bar roll closer to the stem/steerer = a lighter-steering bike, less grip needed, less pressure, etc.

I don’t get it, sharing tents is lighter, warmer, and safer.

Bikepacking or climbing K2? : )

(if safer is about a sense of vulnerability then yes, sure)

Personally I’m not a fan of tents unless really necessary and if I do use one I don’t really want to be a foot away from my smelly riding partners. I expect the feeling is mutual.

Is that because you’re riding really long days back to back, or because your bike fit isn’t as good as it could be? Your position on the bike shouldn’t be pitching you onto your hands too much anyway and drop bars should be providing enough changes of grip for it not to be a problem. TCR / TD / TransAm etc justifies tri bar use as the hours are long and plenty of opportunity to use them but for regular bikepacking they might not be worth their weight or be making up for fit issues?

7 hours riding time is not really long, but I suffer with sore palms. It’s the same with the MTB (I use the ergo grips on that)

Your bike has a lot of the bag bulk (assume weight also) held a long way from the steerer on those tri bars, I can’t imagine that handles too well. If you go lighter you may be able to ditch the tri bars as well as get the bar roll closer to the stem/steerer = a lighter-steering bike, less grip needed, less pressure, etc.

I use the Salsa EXP gradle and even had an engineering company cut the arms down in length so as to bring the bags closer to the steerer tube. On the front I have sleeping bag / mat sheet, tent and roll matt. I found the handling of the bike ok mind.

On the front I have sleeping bag / mat sheet, tent and roll matt. I found the handling of the bike ok mind.

All good then. Probably not all as heavy as it looks, just the light but bulky kit. And if the aero bars fix a problem you’ll not solve any other way then the weight is well worth it.

Am I weird because I see loads of pic on things like KAW faceache group where a group of 2 has camped with two tents. I have shown someone at work some pics of trips with my mate and they said ” what, you shared a tent?”

No, you’re not weird at all. Mind you when we did the KAW I was with my wife so two tents would have meant something had gone seriously wrong! 😂😂

@flanagaj – for me somewhere around 2kg up front is about the maximum before things become too unwieldy steering wise. Depends on bike and expected terrain though. I try and keep it to around 1kg normally.

Kit for KAW I completed last Aug. Sleep system inc tent, pad, poles and quilt are 1800g. Stove, clothes and spares/tools split between my handle bar bag and micro pannier. Made the bags mysself from a mixture of fabrics inc Cordura (High abrasion areas), VX21, LS07 liteskin and dyneema. I line the lags with a waterproof ripstop.

I guess my whole set up minus water and food is around 5kg.

Should add I did the ride over 3 days, starting and finishing in Bristol.

I have both gas and meths set ups, the meths stuff never gets used these days. Jetboil for day walks, pocket rocket and ti pot for multi days.

Just weighing mine out now for the weekend.

About 1.5kg out front in a bar bag – tent minus poles and pegs + sleeping bag liner + spare clothes + mat. Couple of hundred grams for the harness.
1 kg bag slung under downtube – all cooking gear including meths/2 days of dinner/breakfast/coffee.
Seatbag is about 700g – sleeping bag, down gilet, waterproof.
No frame bag, pump and poles strapped to frame – 400g or so
Top tube bag, maybe 500g with charger/phone/lock, bit of grub.
tool bottle with spare tube and tent pegs.
Rest in a bumbag – water filter, masks/sanitiser/wipes, another layer, bit of food, no more weight than I’d generally take on a day ride, perhaps less.

Total is somewhere between 4.5 and 5kg, and obviously would be less if I wasn’t bothered about decent food in the evenings, or could rely on pubs having space (which will be an issue this weekend).

1 kg bag slung under downtube – all cooking gear including meths/2 days of dinner/breakfast/coffee.

running a significant calorie shortfall then. I cannot get 4000 calories per day to under 800 g a day

running a significant calorie shortfall then.

Running a calorie deficit for a few days really isn’t a problem for most of us, in fact it’s probably a benefit. I’ve never bothered counting calories for trips, I just take what I know from experience will mean I go to bed not feeling hungry.

I am the opposite of that. I cannot sleep if I am hungry,. 4000 calories per day is the minimum requirement for me or I will have low blood sugar, be grumpy and not be able to sleep. thats a kilo of food per day.

I do tend to do multiple nights at once tho – its not a quick nap behind the pub. its several days unsupported with no access to supplies

Well, yes, if I was doing longer tours with no access to shops, I’d need to carry more.

I’ve just done a 4 day tour. In the past I always gone self supported, made my porridge in a morning, cooked my tea. It was part of the fun of wild camping and usually required as I’ve been no where near civilisation.

This time we went lighter and we ate out for everything, the ride was more about food than riding. It was fantastic. Surprisingly it didn’t slow us down as much as we were expecting and we covered just as much distance. It was rather refreshing. Probably because I’ve not eaten out since last March. It helped with good weather and being able to eat outside.  Maybe I’m just getting older! 🤣

Meant to post this last night but got hit by a sequence of 502 errors …

@martinhutch – that for the Jennride? We are heading over very early Sat AM so might see you at some point. Going to aim for the ODG or Stickle Barn but will take food just in case.

@tjagain – a calorie shortfall over a day or two is neither here nor there. Supposedly even stick thin riders like Chris Froome have enough usable body fat to run four marathons without having to eat. Don’t think it’d do them much good though! Also here in the UK you have to wilfully avoid restocking options to get much beyond a few days – not something most aim to do. The old military adage regarding provisions (food and fuel) was “2lbs (1kg) per man per day”, not much has changed.

In the process of sorting out what I’m taking for the JennRide. At the moment it’s something like:

Bar harness: hammock, underquilt, tarp, hammock suspension. 1760g + 315g for harness and heavy duty bag.
Seat pack: sleeping wear (merino top and bottoms), stove, mug and food, bowl, microfibre towel, midweight top. maybe 800g + 275g for harness and bag.
Jerry Can: tools, spares, first aid kit, toothbrush and paste. 400g inc bag
2x stem cells: trail food, camera, powerbank, glasses, sun cream, midge cream. variable weight but the bags weigh 100g each
Pump is attached to frame. GPS on bars. Waterproof will be in shirt pocket. Exposure Joystick for light on helmet. Small blinky for rear light.

That lot is just over 5kg, would be a bit lighter if I wasn’t hammocking – somewhere in the 4.2kg range is my typical touring weight.

@whitestone

Yes, for the Jennride – hopefully see you there, God knows how my legs will hold up this year. Not sure about likely camp spot, I may detour off route slightly. Not relying on pubs for food, as most around here need reservations at the weekends and have lower capacity.

Whitestone – as per my post above – a calorie deficit does not work for me. I need that kilo of food per day

The old military adage regarding provisions (food and fuel) was “2lbs (1kg) per man per day”, not much has changed.

Thats because you cannot alter basics. Carbs are 4 calories per gramme, fats 9. to get 4000 calories of tasty food that remains palatable day on day requires at least 800g a day of food

as per my post above – a calorie deficit does not work for me. I need that kilo of food per day

This is often a fitness thing, less fit individuals often feel the need for more calories than fitter ones. 😉