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The poxy electric O/S park brake on my Passat seized on this week. The good old RAC man got me out of trouble and removed it but its mullered and needs a new one. For a genuine VW part the want the best part of £300. My local parts place can get them for £240 but it comes with a caliper, which is obviously a waste as i dont need the caliper. Just wondered if anyone else has had the same issue and if they have found anywhere that does just the electric motor thingyjig on it own?
Cheers
Bloke i know had aPassat do the same. He ended up getting an exchange calliper with the motor.
Sound like a stupid idea. Lever and cable FTW.
Defo a crap idea...
I had to go to VW, £250 and I fitted it myself. It is outrageous.
It's not a complex mechanism though and you may have some joy trying to free it up - I didn't though. Try removing the gear assembly and soaking it in vinegar...
It's actually not a bad idea as such, it's just that for some reason they failed to seal the unit properly. There's no rubber seal or anything where it meets the caliper. Reasonable idea, poor implementation, and outrageous cost to replace for a few gears and a motor. Especially when they go wrong so often - why hasn't someone started knocking them out for a reasonable price? And why do VW not price the spares reasonably? They are often pretty good with goodwill gestures, so why they hell can't they supply these for £50 and if they make a loss, write it off as acknowledgement that they designed it poorly?
2008 onwards have upgraded design.
Plenty of info on reconditioned motors on passat forums but if you fancy more in depth and how to ... https://sites.google.com/site/1810martin/passat-b6-electric-park-brake
If and when i can pick up the part without paying the earth, does it require the "brake fault" message clearing / re-setting by laptop etc or is it just bolt it on and away you go?
Are you sure its not the dash switch ? mine went, £20 off ebay and fitted in minutes, sorted 8)
No, RAC man had to come out to release it and took it off so i could get to work. Near side stii fitted and works fine.
You need a diagnostic machine to retract the piston so the pads can be changed???
I thought VW were supposed to be good. Not shite.
This is why I've bought a Mazda 6 estate; had Passats since 1989 and they've been pretty good, but what use is a car that my son can't learn to drive in (handbrake only in test!)and 1 in 4 need their parking brakes replaced within the first few years (not to mention injectors and oil pumps failing).
Pads shouldn't need retracting as far as im aware.
link above says it needs to be connected to diag machine so motor can wind out - unlike every other normal rear caliper where you push and turn with a cold chisel/wire cutters/retractor tool.
If they weren't already retracted surely the brake would be locked on...
Pads wear. And i am just going off the link above.
I feel for you. I drove round for 3 weeks with cotton wool in my ears and the radio turned up to drown out the audible warning after mine went. So glad to get rid of that car!
(not to mention injectors and oil pumps failing).
The oil pump thing was a bad design used in one factory on one engine for a short time. It was subject to recall pretty early on. The injector issue applied to a larger group of a certain engine but still by no means all cars, and that too was subject to recall - after a long campaign apparently. I had mine done.
The normal procedure for changing pads is to use the computer, yes, but there is a way around it afaik.
1 in 4 need their parking brakes replaced within the first few years
Only the earlier ones.
I dont need the pads changed though its just the motor bit, it just bolts on then you connect the plug but does it need the fault message cleared on a diagnostic machine. i.e can it be done myself or does it need a garage to do it?
My mates had the oil pump and injector issues sorted on his after the oil pump went and wrecked the engine and VW wrote to him and offered him new injectors FOC.
His engines now rebuilt with an upgraded oil pump.
AFAIK, from what I've been told via my mate, the handbrake is basically a motor that needs to be wound back by computer even if you change pads.
Whether a new part comes wound in or out, I don't know, too complex these new cars for me give me points and plugs and a normal handbrake 8)
I think the fault code clears itself.
My Passat has just suffered an electronic parking-brake seize-on, one side only. This followed a jump-start after being parked a couple of weeks, so I'm not sure if this is a mechanical seize from being parked or a computer glitch from the jumping.
My question, then, guys, is can the brake be released mechanically so that I can drive it to a dealer / scrapyard for a quote / repair? I'm rather remote from any dealerships so getting it transported immobilized to a dealer would cost a fortune, and once there, I'd have no choice but to accept their quote. Not good!!
The dash is also showing some warning lights, traction control and something else, a pentagon thing, which I'm guessing could be due to being torqued up one sided, but might also indicate a fried computer 🙁
Same happened to me after returning from holiday. I was not chuffed. The AA man wasn't prepared to remove the handbrake (rightly) and leave me without, so called for a low loader to transport the car to the local dealers and us home.
Cost approx £800 for both sides to be fixed, and they tried to charge me for a new electronics module (another £400) that I didn't authorise.
Apparently the gear drive housing splits and lets water and dirt in, which knackers everything.
VW deny that there was a problem and will not replace like they did with the injectors. They changed the design for later models.
If I wasn't being paid mileage from home I would have had problems affording the repair.
Other than that the car has been faultless, only requiring the usual servicing (That's me hexed).
blueeyedgirl. May be worth seeing if there are any reasonably local VW specialists. Not going to be cheap mind. Good luck.
If you are handy with a spanner (or torx bit in fact) you can remove the wheel, go behind the caliper and remove two torx bolts holding the black plastic module on the back of the caliper. It should then come off and you can unplug it and drive the car.
On the one that siezed on mine, the casing was not split, but water seems to have got in because there is no seal between the case and the caliper body.
Re transporting - if you have breakdown cover free with insurance, it might pay for transportation to a garage from home.
What aged Passats are we talking about here? - is my '14 reg one (which I've only had for a week) doomed?
I bloody hope not as I'm stuck with it for 4 years (company car lease)
No, we are talking 2005-2008 for all these problems.
Suggest you get a good look at the other side. Second one on my car (56 plate) failed two weeks after the first. Both had a split housing. First time I was a long way from home so low loader as RAC guy wouldn't undo it to let me drive off. Second time was on driveway so not such an issue but still costly and annoying.
i've had a lot of shit cars.
including, and i'm not kidding, a citroen visa which had been used to keep chickens in BEFORE i owned it.
(got 2 years out of that, didn't even change the oil)
my passat with the leccy handbrake was the least reliable, most annoying heap i've ever had.
i drive like a nun, and i killed the engine in less than 20,0000 miles.
VW? utter carp.
Driver side rear caliper motor seized in my drive a couple of years back, IIRC I looked on line and then disconnected the battery for 5 mins, reconnected and the motor re-set itself.
Drove out to the VW garage without using the parking brake and then when parked up purposefully put it on so they would have to make an effort to get it in the workshop and actually earn the money they robbed off me!
Apart from that its been a decent car.
and i killed the engine in less than 20,0000 miles.
No you didn't. The engines are not soft overall. There was a specific design flaw in the oil pump fitted to engines from one factory for a short period of time. Don't condemn the whole of every Passat for that.
Don't condemn the whole of every Passat for that.
Jog on love. Us French drivers have to put up with it from the Vag contingent on a daily basis. 😉 Epb is all very clever, but why? When was a handbrake a problem? Or even not good enough.
French cars have a long history of lower reliability in many areas. VW in the other hand have a long history of high reliability. This took a big hit when a few specific items caused trouble. Only problem is that th trouble they caused was pretty major!
I've had trouble with mine, so why would I stick up for it? Cos I've worked on it and I can see the amount of thought that's gone into the whole car.
When was a handbrake a problem? Or even not good enough.
IIRC, electric handbrakes are lighter than the full on cable, lever etc. - if you want better fuel economy from a bigger/faster/safer car then you have to make things lighter. Much like the reason you only get a space saver tyre (or just a can of sealant).
Blame that market research when people tick random boxes on what they'd like their next car to have.
There are a few reasons for EPB;
1) releases space between the seats for other stuff
2) it's easier to build a car with EPB as there are no cables/brakes to adjust during manufacture
3) it saves some weight (as breatheeasy said)
4) you can add some clever functionality - drive-away-release, hill-assist etc...
I blame the EU for the mess.
We used to have a rule that called the handbrake the emergency brake and it stated that it must be purely mechanical and independent of the main brakes. Then it was dropped in the name of 'rule harmony'.
Same thing as the fire extinguishers going from separate colours to all red with small coloured bands.
Hill starts etc are done via the ABS on the Passat, at least on mine. And auto-driveaway isn't that great because it takes too long to disengage so you strain against it for a bit.
However on the plus side, it's more secure than a handbrake, cable wont' stretch, never slips on a hill, and it does intelligent stuff like if you are stopped but still in drive it puts it on; also if you turn the car off in drive or neutral. This would ahve saved the life of one old lady I know of who forgot to take her car out of drive when she got out and was dragged along and mangled up.
Also, as above - lots of handy space in the centre console.
To be fair, it's not a mess - it's VW's shit 2st gen implementation. There's nothing complex about the concept but the internals of the motor unit are bizarre and over-engineered.
I disagree with you Mols; I think VW have been making really solid but pretty unreliable cars for 25 years now.
Remember the vacuum operated central locking from the early 90's?
The ridiculous front suspension on the Mk5 Passat (sorted the understeer issues of previous models but wore out constantly).
The "solution in search of a problem" of the EPB with recent Passats is what finally drove me over the edge after having had VWs for decades.
World of pain, especially when it siezes when you're on holiday in the Alps.
[url= http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6136/5979397826_80b04f48b0_z.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/stu_n/5979397826/ ]26 July - Tommy towtruck[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/stu_n/ ]Stu_N[/url], on Flickr
Are we seriously citing "weight loss" as a benefit of a posh handbrake in a vehicle weighing a tonne and a half? That's the same lunatic mentality that spends a three figure sum on a titanium water bottle that saves several grams on something that holds three quarters of a kilo of water.
World of pain, especially when it siezes when you're on holiday in the Alps.
Mine once locked on when I was at the front of a queue driving off a ferry. That was a barrel o' yuks.
Sorry Cougar but weight loss is a major issue and every Kilogram is highly valued by VM's in the battle to reduce CO2 emmissions.
Agree with Cougar; Weight loss would be achieved by removing all that mass that gives you that distinctive chunky sound when you close the door, not by sticking in a device with no real benefits and which is prone to expensive malfunction.
weight loss is a major issue and every Kilogram is highly valued by VM's in the battle to reduce CO2 emmissions.
I didn't know that. But it's not that valuable or we'd all be driving Atoms. (-:
Umm.. They didn't knowingly put in a device that was prone to malfunction 🙄 it's not like they had meetings in which they made a decision to create something unreliable and annoying.. So it wouldn't form part of their business strategy ffs.. The idea is fine, the execution is flawed.
Out of interest, how heavy are the motors that drive these handbrakes?
I'm struggling to envisage them being lighter than a mechanical setup.
At a time of purchase it was Passat vs Octavia.
Octavia estate was allright, acceptable quality trim, boot was allright, mechanical handbrake etc. It was an acceptable smart enough looking car.
Same year like for like Passat costed the same monies, and it was no brainer even to consider otherwise. 2 years happy owner of Passat (58plated). Subtle quality, comfort, economy and reliability without shouting badge.
Auto hold electric function is god send.
The brakes weigh the same - whether there's a mechanical mechanism or a motor/gearbox on the back.
The weight saving comes from getting rid of the lever in the cab' (1.5kg) and the two cables running from the cab' to each wheel (about 2kg each depending on car size).
The other advantage is the lack of set-up necessary when building the car. You bolt the brakes on, plug the harness in and away you go. Major cost and hassle saving.
Also no worries about routing the park brake cables from the cab' lever to each wheel. That saves time during development and no lever/no cables is one less thing to go wrong/wear out.
JAG just a quick question, when did you last have a cable handbrake go wrong?
Oh and how well do the electronic ones work in the snow? Can you gently apply the handbrake while rocking the car?
molgrips - MemberUmm.. They didn't knowingly put in a device that was prone to malfunction it's not like they had meetings in which they made a decision to create something unreliable and annoying.. So it wouldn't form part of their business strategy ffs.. The idea is fine, the execution is flawed.
Yet you made this quote about Mazda 6 DPF (which you didn't have the facts right anyway)
I'd not buy a car with that kind of design bodge on principle.
More so , when cable does go wrong its not a show stopper.
Takes 10 minutes to manually wind it off and i can cary on my day - your milage may. Vary but frontera , landrover and my peugeot could all be manually backed off with a spanner or a screw driver .... He joys of drum handbrakes.
Then you carry on your day using sense and the gear box when you park up 🙂
your e brake packs in and your getting the aa out.
I'm running a 54 Passat so safe from the possible hassle of the Lecky handbrake bollix. My local garage has advised me never to get one with a lecky HB as theyv'e had loads of bother with them.
I'll be keeping well clear!
(I hope I can get more out of this one than the paltry 235K that I got out of my last 51 model)
molgrips...
With regard to reliablity - I'd say back in the day of the Mk2 golf, yes VW's were remarkably well made and resilient. Since then they've been no better than an average manufacturer.
the mk3 golf era marked a noticeable downturn in reliability and general build quality. Mk4's trim was garbage - My Mk4 GTi TD PD150 had several trim parts fall off, other parts stitching unwind, and that was on the Recaro, top of the line leather interior. My Mk5 Golf GTi DSG was worse. Trim was garbage and the car was very unreliable - electrical gremlins (although the car was a hoot to drive) cause frequent breakdowns. I went from that to an Audi A3 2.0 diesel Sport that had less power, less torque and far less reliability than the mk4 pd 150. Laughably, for the a3's first service, (I owned the car from new), it's FIRST service, the dealer cheerily told me it should 'only' come to approx £1400.
VW/Audi's reliability is, in general, now a myth. It's not supported by breakdown figures either. [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/news/9815860/German-cars-lose-out-in-reliability-survey.html ]Reliability report[/url]
Out of interest - did you get your Passatt sorted eventually? Hope you had a good outcome. 🙂
£1400 for a first service? I think you misheard the service bloke 😉
Scamper...
Sadly i didn't. Althought I thought the same at first.
Wanted to replace Front disks 60% worn and rears 70% worn. I replied that meant they had almost 30 and 50% live left in them. Added to that were perished CV joint rubbers and tons of other things. They didn't get permission to fix the car. Took it to an indy, got it serviced/fixed and sold it. Awful car. I hated it so much I ditched cars for while and had motorbike/bike only until my hip got really bad and I needed a car.
I bought a wee Fork Ka from a car market for £275 at that point! Drove that for 2 years with no problems at all. Loved that wee car. Cost me £70 in servicing/MOT the whole time I had it. 🙂
Yet you made this quote about Mazda 6 DPF (which you didn't have the facts right anyway)
I know I may be wrong, I have only forum chat to go on. However the point about dpfs on Mazda being a service item at 70k miles was made on here. I didn't believe it at first and I would live to be wrong.
However, to answer your point there is a huge difference between a bad design that was approved and produced knowing it's flawed than a poorly implemented design.
How do you do handbrake turns with a leccy handbrake?
I had a problem with a handbrake once. So I got the plate it was fixed to welded back to the car floor for £5 and it was fine.
Someone earlier suggested to "go behind the caliper and remove two torx bolts holding the black plastic module on the back of the caliper. It should then come off and you can unplug it and drive the car". Does anyone know if this is possible?
My car is still stuck where I parked it several weeks ago and getting it transported to a dealer is simply not a viable option. I'm thinking of seeing if I can get some WD40 into the mechanism first, and if not, disabling it at least sufficient to drive it a short distance to get it to a garage with a ramp for further examination.
Yes you can remove the 2 torx bolts, remove and unplug the electric mechanism and manually wind the handbrake off. Done it last weekend on my mums car.
The torx bolts are loctited in so hard to remove bit it's do-able.
I had a Passat with the electronic parking brake. Have had VW Passats for 20 years but the problems I had with the electronic parking brake, the cost of repairs/spares and the on-going unreliability resulted in selling the Passat and getting something with a good old cable operated brake.
VW would not admit that there is a problem with these things and their customer service was appalling.
I replaced the switch on mine the other day, for £8.99. It had been intermittent and dodgy, but the switch cured that. Works perfectly now.
Had a 2000 Passat for 10 years but couldn't face another due to the increasingly worrying reliability issues - lovely feel to the vw build but not confidence inspiring that they a) have a shorter warranty than cheaper manufacturers and b) IME the goodwill scheme knowingly overlooks design faults such as the EPB and the utterly crap and potentially financially disastrous poorly designed/made pollen filter housing issue. I might be wrong but vw's market share can only go down if they don't up their warranty scheme.
Fwiw I bought a Toyota due to the 5 yr warranty and better reliability record. Not as nice tho 😉
We've had an electronic park brake on our Audi for 7 years trouble free. It seems to me there is a specific issue with the Passat one as VAG are capable of making a durable parking brake. The main advantage I see with the electronic one is you save space inside the car. For choice I'd have a manual brake as its one less electrical thing to go wrong.
As an aside the clunky sound you hear when closing the door is a result of the solid construction which saves injury in a side impact.
utterly crap and potentially financially disastrous poorly designed/made pollen filter housing
Is that the one where the passenger footwell fills with water? Fixed in later models afaik. There are no longer any electronics in the footwells, so if it does leak nothing bad can happen.
They had some major issues with the earlier B6s - some injectors, some oil pumps and the EPB. The first to were recalled, the EPB was redesigned in I think 2008. I think they have learned from those earlier mistakes. I'll keep my ears open since the current generation of cars will probably be in my price range when I come to replace mine, and I do really want another.
Jambalaya: I don't believe there is any evidence that a car with more solid doors is any safer in a side impact crash; I could be wrong though.
My issue with the EPB is this: As a family we have been great fans of VW fans since the early '70s. Like Molgrips on the forum here we were prepared to overlook any amount of problems with VW cars because they were so solidly put together. My experience of the MK4 and 5 Passat is that despite their solidity, there are just too many re-occurring faults with them (which is why they are below Citroen and Peugot in reliability surveys). With the Mk5 Passat it was the vulnerable front suspension, the poor quality wiring to the injectors, the fact that all the water coming down the windscreen ended up in the plenum chamber whose drain holes were concealed in a position you couldn't even get a hand in to clear (resulting in damage to main computer, engine management system and brake servo).
The point at which VW incorporated an EPB (solution in search of a problem)in the Mk6 which was unreliable and required expensive repairs, was the final straw for me as far as VWs were concerned.
Like Molgrips on the forum here we were prepared to overlook any amount of problems with VW cars because they were so solidly put together.
Well as you can see I've not overlooked them - I'm keeping an eye out for them. I'm not going to write off a brand because of problems that have been fixed, like the oil pump and the plenum chamber.
If they continue to have problems then I'll have to think again, but out of all that class of car it's the one I like the most so I'll make sure I understand the problems. I'm not overly loyal to VW, although they are my favourite brand probably; I have a series of brands I like and will buy from any of them.
Next time I'm shopping I'll try an Accord and Avensis, and possibly Hyundai or older 5 series or A6. Never been overly impressed with the interior of a Ford (this is a top priority for me) even though the Mondeo has a good rep. The sheer ugliness of the Accord put me off when I was buying last. I would look at Volvo too but I don't know their range well.
Molgrips if they ever come out with VW tinted cycling glasses you'll be first in the queue. I understand where you are coming from. I had a number of Audi 5cylinder coupes, Audi 80 sport, Audi 100 estate with the 5cyl 2.5 TDI. Lovely cars that could be home maintained and capable of stellar mileages. That era has long gone. Ford trounces VAG cars in every reliability survey there is. That really annoys me as the early stuff was superb. At least with Skoda the dealers are better when you take your car in for repair! I'm in the market for a newish car and I simply don't know what to get.
My choice will be as follows if I strike jackpot today with priority to Jap cars.
Jap cars:
1. Toyota (parts plentiful and reasonable) - Work horse.
2. Mitsubishi (parts plentiful slightly expensive)
3. Mazda (parts reasonable but not sure about plentiful though)
4. Suzuki (parts reasonable but can be expensive)
[s]5. Nissan (parts reasonable) ... bloody ugly design that. Ugly ... what's that Nissan Juke or Junk?
6. Honda (parts expensive) ... In the far east this is considered the equivalent of BMW here. We don't drive this even if it is reliable but it is not a workhorse. Nice to look at but a bit sensitive like a girl.
7. Subaru (parts expensive) - very sensitive as my mate found out.[/s]
European cars:
1. Skoda - I guess it's better not to be a VW driver.
2. Volvo - Sad to see they are going to China.
3. Ford - guess you can get all parts here reasonably.
Molly, with the greatest of respect, you're hardly Passat Marketing's poster boy.
Having had both, when you come to renew I can seriously recommend you look at the Mondeo. The Passat is a truly great car and mine served me well, but the Mondy absolutely demolishes it in every way.
I was only looking for the smaller class whe I was shopping, I chose the Civic, because the Focus was plain as hell. The Passat was an impulse buy. Although I must say my local VW main dealer are excellent.
The thing is, now I've learned a lot about VAG and I own the diagnostic tools so it would be a shame to start from scratch with another car. Plus Ford diesel engines seem rather ropey from what I've heard.
I will shop around when I change, as I said, but I have to like the interior and controls etc. That is top priority and a pretty subjective thing, so my choice will always seem weird to most,probably. When looking at Focuses for example, I couldn't find many used with cruise control since it only comes with the top spec leather trim which I didn't want and didn't want to pay for. It was standard on all Civics. Little things make the difference to me.
I would really like self levelling rear suspension next time It's an option on Passat estates but not common; I think it is standard on Volvo estates tho.
Molgrips the most unreliable 4x4 is the Audi Allroad based on the A6. Why? It's the self levelling suspension, it's a major problem and a must to have replaced before you buy one. I assume it's the same system on the Passat. Good luck with that one. 🙂
Not the same on the Passat. It's just air assist on the rear springs, I think it's the nivomat units they use on Volvos which is mature tech.
molgrips - yep that's the one. Accepted 'from new' issue which VW simply chose to ignore. I really agree with your liking of the interiors (I couldn't buy a Ford because of the cheap alum lookey likey plastic)but VW are falling behind in the quality warranty/reliability stakes and that's a fact. When repairs are sooo expensive it's a deal breaking issue for many, me included now.
That said my 192k 14 yr old passat felt better than a 2 year old i30, not tighter just 'nicer'.
Wait you're saying there are issues with the VW suspension as well as the Audi set-up? Hmm. It'll be a big seller for me, as I hate the way the ride deteriorates when towing so anything I can do to improve that is good. I think Volvo is probably my best bet for this. I've never driven one and I like the company so it's worth a go. Possibly costly.
On the subject of Passat interiors - giving mine a good clean recently it's frankly astonishing how good its condition is after 8 years and 100k miles. Even the driver seat looks new. The dash was creaking annoyingly over bumps, but I removed the long thin dash insert panels and sprayed silicone behind them and its gone. Dash and trim is silent.
That suspension is a simpler system using oil filled sachs dampers. Seems to be a good choice much better than the allroad system. £550 quid a side fitted by VW though so check for leaking oil from the shocker if you decide to go down that route. I agree with the interior aspect they are superb, not sure its worth putting up with everything else though. Think i'll probably go down the Honda Accord estate petrol route. Dull but reliable.