Ukraine

M142... That would be bloody great.

Yes, I poked the thread, sorry.

I wonder how much training such a system requires?

I imagine some training is already happening.

Finally got the last of the tourniquets to Lviv, the ones that Kilo bought. We also sent four camping stoves (and two vans worth of supplies) Apparently if they light a fire to cook on, the Russian artillery shell them immediately.
The stoves were £20 or so each so we will probably buy some more.
Has anyone seen them cheaper, they are the ones with the bigger platform that are remote from the gas. Like this…
https://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/15908525/oex-novo-folding-leg-stove-15908525/?utm_source=affiliate264419&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=http%3a%2f%2fwww.flexoffers.com&awc=3549_1654242748_b9e89b859f63110057bdfa9d61aaf9c2

This could have a significant impact if it goes through

https://twitter.com/nicholadrummond/status/1532273888712970240?t=W0NMye_Gcj5oV0Pavk4xow&s=19

I give it six months befor there are anti drone drones fighting it out remotely.

Perfect job for any spare pilots they have sat around.

Although be interesting to see how soon they can get them into service. I foresee a lot of civilian contractors being employed.

Now there is a Putin problem. Is nato getting too involved if, lets say, an American contractor for Lockheed martin is remotely piloting that drone. Or even providing tech services from Poland.
If it needs specific maintenance it will be quicker and simpler to do it in country but thats boots on the ground

Drone dogfights. Bet there are 16yr old kids who would excel at that. Perfect for gamers to spend weeks inside a dark room glued to a 55in screen, but fo real with no reset button.

A couple of years back the Russian's were claiming to be developing a drone wing-man concept. Human pilot with one or two pilot-less sidekicks.

Forbes article

I've no idea if the concept was expanded, or was just so much hype.

I give it six months befor there are anti drone drones fighting it out remotely.

While autopilots are pretty easy, the idea of drone air combat is pretty similar in difficulty levels to automated driving. Currently the technology required to get proper AI fighting won't fit in the airplane you'd want to use. Remote pilots suffer the same sorts of levels of lack of information. Routinely the human part of the drone flying currently is a two man operation with static targets on the ground. ie - easy flying in lazy circles and looking down through a camera onto a fixed or slow moving target. Air to air drone fighting is a complexity that is way in the future. (despite what breathless article about what the Chinese are doing with AI)

Lots of claims on Twitter that a Ukrainian counter attack has retaken a significant proportion of Severodonetsk, inflicting major casualties on the Russians.  Also, because there was a huge Russian troop presence there getting ready for further advances, the Russians can't resort to their usual tactic of artillery barrages from a distance for fear of hitting their own troops.  They are having to fight determined Ukrainians with infantry on infantry.

As Severodonetsk and surrounds was the focal point of Russia's objectives, this is pretty remarkable.  They haven't retaken it completely and of course the Russians will fight back but the fact that Ukraine can meet the main Russian effort head on and even push them back is impressive.

https://twitter.com/TrentTelenko/status/1532840519704928256?t=J-2aQFPb-HN0jW-qEVrxyg&s=19

I’ve no idea if the concept was expanded, or was just so much hype.

There are variations in several countries. Boeing has the imaginatively named Wingman for RAAF and there is something similar for the USAF.

Air to air drone fighting is a complexity that is way in the future.

Not so sure about that although it has the major blockers of the ethics around not having a human in the middle and the fighter pilots, who provide a lot of the senior leadership, not wanting to be replaced.
Air combat is "simpler" than ground combat in terms of things AI finds difficult currently eg reliable identification and adapting to new environmental conditions. Also has the major advantage that generally there wouldnt be any civilians in the combat zone and if there are they could be relatively easily identified and marked as such.

I think the idea of trying to use a drone to replace what a piloted aircraft does is not the way to go. They would ideally be complementary. For example, you could have a big aircraft like a two-seater F15 stand off with the weapons system officer controlling missile armed drones that are much smaller and stealthier than the mothership and can get much closer before being detected.

Enjoyed this:

Ukrainian counterfire

I seem to have been reading for weeks that the Russians have reached their "culmination point", and that their supply lines are on the edge of collapse. But all the while they have been slowly advancing. I'm not sure what the attraction of invading somewhere if you've reduced it to rubble is, but the strategy seems to be intact.

I think there is a lot of guarded information from both sides. The Ukrainians are usually also claiming to be overrun which probably means their really regrouping.

I’m not sure what the attraction of invading somewhere if you’ve reduced it to rubble is

They don’t aim to stop at the limits of the rubble. Countries that border Ukraine are aware of this. And anyway, I’ve always seen that the plan is to take the whole of the coast, to form a New Russia in the South, and slowly strangle Ukraine into poverty and collapse. For an old man, Putin has far more patience than western commentators make out. If this takes years, then it takes years. He’ll keep on it.

I think Putin has realized that his fantasy of annexing all of Ukraine is impossible and he's just trying to grab as much of the east as he can. Reducing it to rubble means that there won't be any Ukrainians there. Russian gains seem to have been very small. Fighting in the east, near the Russian border is much easier than in the north because they can use railways for resupply instead of trucks.

As I understand it, "culmination" means that they can't continue offensive operations and have to switch to defensive operations, it doesn't mean they are on the point of collapse. With rail supply, I suspect that Russia can sustain an artillery war for many months and it will be extremely difficult for Ukraine to drive them back across the border.

Interestingly, their losses of armoured vehicles are much lower than before. This may be a sign that they have lost so many that they aren't able to launch armoured attacks and are just relying on artillery instead. There were reports that they were shipping old T-62 tanks to Ukraine. That would be a sign that their stocks of more modern gear were depleted.

There were reports that they were shipping old T-62 tanks to Ukraine.

that's odd you'd think it be t-64 first 😕

that’s odd you’d think it be t-64 first

The reason that I read is that T-62s are used by reserve units, so they have a lot that are actually operational. The newer tanks in the reserve stockpile will have been neglected for decades and need serious maintenance to make them operational. In other words, they are just dredging up anything that has an engine that will start.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2022/06/everything-is-gone-russian-business-hit-hard-by-tech-sanctions/

“Everything is gone”: Russian business hit hard by tech sanctions

Export controls and sanctions have plunged Russia into technological crisis.

Worth a read.

@ jkomo

I give it six months befor there are anti drone drones fighting it out remotely.

That's inevitable. We will probably see drone hunters. i.e. drones vs drones.

@jkomo - there are similar on ebay for less - the one below is £13.79 each if you buy 3

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314004044799?hash=item491c197bff:g:3oUAAOSww1Fih15W

If you need to raise more money let me know, new month new pay packet 😉

Murray, thanks but we are all done.
The eBay ones may not be up to the job, there are a lot of rubbish ones about, where the windlass (stick winder thing) snaps easily.
Next week I’m hopefully finalising a big buy of water purification tablets- 198,000 of them to do nearly 4 million litres.
After that is camping stoves, they need them as they can’t use a camp fire as they get shelled straight away.

On the subject of drones, whilst you can have civilian operators involved in the piloting of drones, but due to Geneva convention, civilian contractors are excluded from the targeting and delivery of lethal force. If the Russians discovered NATO personnel involved, they could state that NATO becomes a legitimate target.

@jkomo - that's a camping stove link

Enjoyed this:

Very satisfying. Would have liked to see that missile launcher destroyed tho!

Hey Murray 🤦‍♂️.
Thanks
Looks ideal!
Not sure I’ll do a group buy for these, we might do a big sponsorship deal.
I might order one to check it out, it looks really good.

According the the Fins visiting next door, the shooting ranges are rammed and body armour is flying off the shelves. I dont know how widespread that is, or if its just their bubble.

They do not like Russia very much at all. The fear and resentment of the Winter War brought up quickly, something capable of crossing generations.

They failed to blame NATO, i'll pull them up on that later.

Looks like Severodonetsk has been liberated, which is pretty incredible!

Seriously?!?! That sounds amazing!!

I've looked for that story, all the news I can find says that they've only retaken part of it?

dovebiker
Full Member
On the subject of drones, whilst you can have civilian operators involved in the piloting of drones, but due to Geneva convention, civilian contractors are excluded from the targeting and delivery of lethal force. If the Russians discovered NATO personnel involved, they could state that NATO becomes a legitimate target.

Posted 8 hours ago

****ing hell, what the **** are you on about?

If you have that mindset the Turkish have been battering those russian arseholes for the last 3 months. Attacks on turkey? **** all. They are a member of nato.

Why would Russia want to attack NATO, ever? It's gotten it's arse handed to it by Ukraine. Ukraine is a big country with a big(ish) ex Soviet military that was rated way below Russia.

NATO would ****ing rape Russia in under a week.

* hell, what the * are you on about?

Perhaps having an understanding of how international treaties and geopolitics is influencing the NATO response?

If you have that mindset the Turkish have been battering those russian arseholes for the last 3 months. 

Depends if the Turks are flying the drones, or supplying the drones for Ukranians to pilot. My understanding was that it was the latter, so I may be wrong.

Remind us again how Russia views and follows international treaties?

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1533346627792310272?t=zM8ECftm0N0pkUHAh5yQcw&s=19

Remind us again how Russia views and follows international treaties?

They don't, but NATO does.

My assumption about foreigners joining combat is that Ukraine can enlist them into a militia and they are as legitimate as any other soldier.

I’ve looked for that story, all the news I can find says that they’ve only retaken part of it?

I got it from this channel: Severodonetsk

This guy has been pretty reliable in the past, so who knows? Maybe they’ve jumped the gun a bit in their analysis.? ISW says 20% regained with street fighting in the rest.

Ukraine is a big country with a big(ish) ex Soviet military that was rated way below Russia

The Russian 2014 invasion of Crimea didn't involve any fighting, just quiet insertion of extra troops into their existing bases welcomed by a majority-Russian population.
They seem to have had the same idea in 2022...
Ukraine learned a tough lesson in 2014, don't trust the Russians.

There's a lot of experience in Ukraine, the Kharkiv Morozov Machine Building Design Bureau has been building armoured vehicles since the 1930s including the T64, T80 and T84 so a massive understanding of the shortcomings of the invaders, the necessary logistics, etc exists.
Ukraine has also been involved with members of NATO on exercises in various eastern European countries including in Ukraine (starting in 2010) and will have learnt plenty.

The Russians have been hugely over-rated by everyone for 40 years, Russia hasn't allowed a Vienna Document observation of any of their exercises and since 2014 NATO hasn't allowed practical co-operation with them

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/60869800

Do you think someone should explain to the manager of the Welsh team that going for the "world is against us" attitude with relation to their upcoming game with Ukraine is probably not in the best of taste?

Only the last time I checked, Wales is not at risk of being invaded by an insane neighbour (unless you count overweight Brits in camper vans climbing Snowdon for charity).

"It is a privilege to play Ukraine" might be a better tack than "this must be how Russia feels" (paraphrased!).

I got it from this channel:

Thanks! I'll check it out!

Summer boots needed for Stanislav, (our guys brother in law on front) size 42.
Are walking boots good enough or are ‘tactical’ ones special- steel toe cap or something.
Best place for army surplus?

@shermer75

Another good source of daily info: Daily update

From 20min for Severodonetsk

@jkomo
I'm decades out of date but BITD the DMS boots had a leather toecap but weren't reinforced. The 1970s-1980s UK DMS boot was poor because the laceholes and tongue weren't gussetted and leaked, so many bought German para boots.
Different trades need different things from a boot. Google the pros and cons of surplus boot models to see what's good. Leaky unlined boots dry quicker. High boots can cause tendon problems, etc
Socks are at least as important in foot hygiene.
Modern, waterproof PPE boots could be usable and will be VAT-free

I used goretex lined boots and good insoles.
Waterproof, comfortable, supportive.

Another good source of daily info

Interesting! Not sure I like the sound of that politician who's taken charge of the frontline!

Modern, waterproof PPE boots could be usable and will be VAT-free

I bought some work boots from B&Q for £40 and they're superb, I've never bought anything anywhere near as good for the cash. I'd walk all day in them if I had to and not be bothered.

Thanks molgrips I’ll have a look.

I have these, they are on clearance now:

https://www.diy.com/departments/site-magma-men-s-black-safety-boots-size-10/5052931864782_BQ.prd

Lots more available though. I can go to my local stores and buy what stock they have if you like?

Has this thread turned into "what tyres boots for fighting in Ukraine"?

Kingfisher groups IT dept is based in Ukraine. The site Marble boots are already on special offer at screwfix.
There os a chance of further discount if a well worded letter is sent to head office. No harm in asking, they can only say no.
They look ok to me but i dont know what spec is reqd