UK Election!

The Canadian system is strange even by the standards of other countries with socialized healthcare. France, Germany, the U.K. and Australia, among others, all take great national pride in ensuring medical coverage for every citizen, but you can still cut a cheque for a boutique appendectomy if you feel like it.

“The (Canadian) system is unique in the world in that it bans coverage of … core services by private insurance companies, allowing supplemental insurance only for perquisites such as private hospital rooms,”

What this means is if you want to pay for your own treatment, you can’t if the government provide it.

Tj, as I said, anecdotal from 3 friends.  I have no personal experience.

Reform up to second according to YouGov

there is no queue jumping by paying to get shorter waits.

From the article:

But for Canadians who can afford it, some medical care has become easier than ever to access. A growing number of clinics nationwide are selling MRI scans, prescriptions, pap smears and even surgeries—services once considered primarily the purview of the public health sector—to those who pay out of pocket. Canadians are spending in the ballpark of $100 to speak to a nurse practitioner, who will offer the kinds of care a family doctor typically provides; upward of $600 for an MRI on demand, bypassing lengthy waitlists; and $20,000 or more to travel outside their province to see a surgeon for a hip or knee replacement. There’s never been such a willingness to pay for timely medical care in this country—because sometimes it’s the only way to get it.

Privately paid health care is nothing new in Canada…

https://macleans.ca/society/health/private-health-care-canada/

yes – quite astonishing.  It really could be an extinction event for the tories – Fandabidozi

The Canadian system is strange even by the standards of other countries with socialized healthcare. France, Germany, the U.K. and Australia, among others, all take great national pride in ensuring medical coverage for every citizen, but you can still cut a cheque for a boutique appendectomy if you feel like it.

“The (Canadian) system is unique in the world in that it bans coverage of … core services by private insurance companies, allowing supplemental insurance only for perquisites such as private hospital rooms,”

The (Canadian) system is unique in the world in that it bans coverage of … core services by private insurance companies, allowing supplemental insurance only for perquisites such as private hospital rooms,

You really should read the Macleans article, it’s very illuminating. It’s not true that “Canada has no private healthcare”, it’s not true that people don’t get e.g. quicker surgeries by paying for them, it’s not true that “all hospital type care is done by the state”, and the so-called “core services” provided by the state don’t include such “perquisites” like, err, treatment by paramedics and ambulance transportation…

https://macleans.ca/society/health/private-health-care-canada/

Or I could talk to my friends who live there.

On Scottish education – it shows its a structural issue not a party one – and guess what – its mainly underfunding.  Decades of cuts thatthe scottish government has no real control over – health and education are the largest parts of the Scottish governments budget and these have undert huge financial pre4ssure as a result of decisions taken in Westmionster

So if it’s all just a question of money, why did the Scottish government do so much worse in secondary education than the authorities in England when England also had austerity and Scotland has higher per capita funding than England?

Is there ever anything in Scotland for which the SNP is ever accountable?

Read the quote above.  I spoke with a bunch of healthcare professionals while out there.  this is what they told me.  ambulances for example are free as is medivac from the yukon.  Parmedics are free.  You cannot buy surgery it can only be provided by the state.  there are no private hospitals

“that “article” reads ;like a promo piece and its obviously very slanted.  Believe it if you like – I prefer to believe what those who work in thesystem told me that some clearly far right rag with an obvious agenda

Is there ever anything in Scotland for which the SNP is ever accountable?

Oh yes – lots of stuff ( want to buy a new ferry?) but without control over large scale funding then issues caused by lack of funding is not one of them.  Also schools are under LA control :-)

Lols

https://x.com/Haggis_UK/status/1801350091556720853?t=Vn6kmxYENonPgTMzCwkyfQ&s=19

Oops

That Flynn chap seems good on’t telly debates

Briefly wading into the somewhat nonsensical English education or Scottish education is better, I have noticed as a former engineer and now engineering manager, that you could normally (not always) tell if a Scots educated or English educated (graduate) engineer had written a report by the standard of English language.
It may no longer be true of course, as I’m basing my conclusions on folk who came through the school system a long time ago, and I will also leave you to guess which was better.

” with the really talented buggering off when they get tired leaving those who are marking time.”

Ooh, thank you very much! And here was me thinking I was doing my bit to make the World a tiny bit better. In my experience it is not the talented that ‘bugger off’.

Now the 3 largest parties in England have published their election manifestos, how do they measure up on NHS funding pledges? A thread >>

For the Conservatives, their costed pledges for 2028/29 came to an “extra” £1bn, which would leave their real terms commitment the lowest, at 0.9% a yr. Labour falls between the two, with their £2bn costed “extra” equating to 1.1% real terms growth a year to 2028/29 >>

With the exception of the Lib Dem offer, these figures would represent a tighter squeeze on NHS funding than ever recorded. Lower even than the Cameron/Clegg/Osborne austerity period of 2010/11 to 2014/15 when funding grew by just 1.4% real terms >>

Moreover, they follow 3 yrs where funding has been cut in real terms, meaning that were any of these funding scenarios implemented, health spending in England would grow by an average 0.4% real terms a year 2022/23 to 28/29 under the Cons, 0.5% under Lab and 0.7% under LD >>

All of those figures are lower than the rate of population growth – never mind complicated adjustments to capture the growing health need that comes with an aging population. The NHS, patients and citizens need politicians to be more realistic than this >>

From https://x.com/sallygainsbury/status/1801300033440006549?t=_VuLMePooZ50Y_bpE6cb5g&s=19

Not exactly a lot of daylight between the parties there.

ambulances for example are free as is medivac from the yukon.  Parmedics are free.

https://www.quebec.ca/en/health/health-system-and-services/pre-hospital-emergency-services/cost-ambulance-transportation

https://novascotia.ca/dhw/ehs/ambulance-fees.asp

You cannot buy surgery it can only be provided by the state.

https://surgicalsolutionsnetwork.ca/services/orthopedic/hip/hip-replacement/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/private-surgery-hip-knee-replacement-1.6741461

There are no private hospitals

“There are currently 10 private clinics and one private hospital licensed in Ontario to perform surgeries.”: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-ontario-private-health-care-canada/

I don’t think you are trying to mislead anyone, but a lot of what you’re saying is just. not. true. I think I will leave it there.

Youre all wrong and also right. You get standard cover via medicare, and then you can juice it up by buying services privately.  You will need cover cos you’ll need to pay a gap fee at the point of service.

You managed to find a few edge cases – one private hospital in the whole of ontario.  there are 4 in Edinburgh just to compare.  Some states have token charges for ambulances – Yukon does not even for air ambulance

Its really a tiny part of the Canadian system – thorough research tho ;-)

For me it’s very simple,

I’m lib-dem at heart, but in my area the last GE resulsts were: https://www.calderdale.gov.uk/council/democracy/electionresults/results.jsp?election=517&area=42

So I will be voting labour, this will not a vote in favour or labour, it’s more a vote against the conservatives and UKIP/reform.

I’ve never voted tactically in my life, but I feel I have no choice.

sorry if this been posted before

Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss lose their own seats on those figures. The Tories are reduced to a fringe rural party with the Lib Dems winning more than twice as many seats and becoming the new Opposition. pic.twitter.com/EBVTKMC3O3

— ChrisO_wiki (@ChrisO_wiki) June 13, 2024

that map is mental!

please let it be true!

Reform up to second according to YouGov

Yeah and even worse than that they now seem to be taking votes from Labour – 3 opinion polls in the last 3 days have put Labour on less than 40%

Up until this week no opinion poll had put Labour on less than 40% for a couple of years.

I have to admit that I had dismissed Farage’s claim when announcing his candidature that Reform UK would start taking votes from Labour as well as the Tories.

Up until now the growth in support for Reform UK (from about 5% a couple of years ago to about 12-14% more recently) has come at the expense of the Tories, it hadn’t noticeably dented Labour support.

I was obviously wrong. Suddenly I am not finding this election campaign quite so entertaining and funny 🫤

With 3 weeks to go for the first time I am starting to think that Labour might possibly have a problem forming a large majority. The full effect of Starmer’s support for Israel on Labour’s vote won’t be known until election night, losing support to Reform UK is probably something that Starmer’s tacticians did not calculate when they decided that they could afford to lose the Muslim vote, and the Green vote.

Maybe we will see a Lab/Lib coalition… I’ll take that over a Con/Lib coalition any day of the week.

The other more frightening prospect is a Con/reform coalition, but I’m reasonably happy that won’t happen, touch wood.

I reckon the situation now that Farage has weighed in is really quite volatile and unpredictable.

I think the only one certain thing now is that the Tories will do extremely badly on July 4th. Everything else is anyone’s guess.

I’ve never voted tactically in my life, but I feel I have no choice.

I’m an active Labour Party member who’s been out campaigning for them and will be doing again this weekend

If it was a lib dem who stoood more chance of unseating our Tory MP, I’d vote for them in a heartbeat*

We just need rid of these clowns

* it’s a two horse race here with Labour or our useless Tory MP who I look forward to seeing getting the slow handclap as he’s voted out

For those saying ‘oh the Tories won’t get that few seats’ – their numbers are still sliding and we aren’t even half way through the campaign yet!

Jesus, a Tory/Reform coalition.

I’m genuinely terrified at the thought, particularly as Reform would very much be the senior partner even if they have less MP’s.

I was pleasantly surprised to see Reform not eating into the labour vote but I suppose it was always going to happen to some degree.

I wont lie, I’m pleased Labour is still being so cautious even though I understand why it annoys so many. It had to be this way as there are are so many variables in play here the mind boggles.

A big Labour mistake could still change everything.

Let’s not forget the “Labour have it in the bag” narrative is inevitably going to erode the tactical vote too.

Could be a perfect storm for Labour, the vote being eroded from all sides. Shit.

My money is still on labour to win but I don’t think it will be the landslide some predict.

Looking increasingly like a possible, even likely,  outcome.

Farage, finally finishing off the hollowing out of the Tory party started by Brexit and fully impregnating it with frog spawn.

Eeeww. Not sure I wanted to conjure that image up in my head now.

Right now a Tory-Reform coalition is not even vaguely possible as even the best possible scenario for them only gives Reform about 3 seats.

I am not sure what threshold Reform needs to hit for seats to start cascading in for them, it obviously depends on their vote distribution.

As I say though the one thing we can be absolutely sure of is the Tories will do extremely badly. There is no evidence that their fortunes have turned. In fact all the evidence suggests that their support is collapsing further.

@binners said:

I’m an active Labour Party member who’s been out campaigning for them and will be doing again this weekend

Well, good for you, but the current manifestation of the labour party seems just as anti EU as it was under Corbyn, so I don’t realy GAF about that.

I’ll only be voting labour because they will hopefully be ‘better’ than the conservatives and/or Reform, as they are both the same thing in my mind.

If we can put Craig Whittaker to pasture in the process, then all the better!

we aren’t even half way through the campaign yet!

The election is in just under 3 weeks?

Could be a perfect storm for Labour, the vote being eroded from all sides. Shit.

My money is still on labour to win but I don’t think it will be the landslide some predict.

I’ve got the same fears. Everyone thought Remain had it in the bag until the final day or two.
“It might be close but no-one would be that stupid…”

Same risk here. Everyone thinks there’ll be a Labour landslide so some don’t bother to vote, some vote for the joke/sympathy candidate, some spoil their papers and before you know it Farage has got his way into the House of Commons.

🤯

Farage attracted some Labour voters in the referendum,  Boris attracted them to “get Brexit done”, they were always going to attract votes from Labour this time round as well.

That plane crash really was a “what if” moment for the country.

There seems to be little interest in debating policy any  longer – it’s turned into Labour should to win at all costs – no matter what poor show they put on.

All the Centrist’s screaming about being anti-EU and anti-austerity from many members has become muffled.

Well, the undoing of this is probably none of the improvement we all wanted and fracturing of the political system to allow more right-wing attitudes to prevail.

I mean the size of the spend in Labour’s manifesto is paltry and still the Express is digging into it – it doesn’t matter what you believe you are doing to form a credible government it will never be enough for the right-wing media.

All Starmer had to do in the face of a collapsing Tory party was put some robust progressive stuff out there that would make a difference, but the coward and serial liar has screwed up the future too.

In other news – the Guardian is getting there. (Even though it gets the detail totally wrong.) It is moving closer to reality to challenge narratives on house-hold spending analogy.

The shadow chancellor, Rachel Reeves, has talked about the Conservatives “maxing out the credit card”, and Keir Starmer and Rishi Sunak have also used the analogy.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/jun/13/why-government-debt-is-not-like-household-borrowing?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

During the Covid-19 pandemic the Bank of England created £450bn of bonds and invited investors to buy them. These bonds funded about the same amount of spending by the government

This is particularly cock-eyed as the BoE of purchased these bonds themselves!

But it’s broadly the right point.

The political choice is fund insufficiently

Yep.  Take the costs of a private school per child and put that same amount per child into every state school.

Pay the teachers the same, give the teachers the same conditions, provide all the same things to the children  etc,.

Can anybody argue that it is not money well spent?

.

All Starmer had to do in the face of a collapsing Tory party was put some robust progressive stuff out there that would make a difference, but the coward and serial liar has screwed up the future too.

I thought (a while ago) that he might be deliberately keeping his head down, don’t say anything too contentious or divisive, let the Tories destroy themselves and then come in with some genuine stuff – maybe even along the lines of closer ties with the EU, some decent bits on Net Zero, environment etc.

But all he’s doing is being a sort of “we’re marginally less shit than the Tories”. And he’s managing to get caught up in culture war nonsense as well.

It’s disappointing.

It’s also disappointing that Green/Lib Dem can’t win much, the only option (if your main aim is to get the Tories out) is Labour.

Suggestions that Reform growth may be being influenced by clever targeted Bot activity from non British sources. That sounds quite familiar to the referendum iirc. I wonder if there’s any link?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1335nj316lo

Last night’s debate.

Daisy Cooper understands there is only one pool of labour and resources. Nail on head.  To the left of Labour, and total understand of real limitations, so don’t split it between private and public!

Farage: “The National Cake” WTF