UK Election!

A reminder that if you’re lucky enough to be on £50K [ more than twice what I’m on, and four times what my other half is on ] the Tories have raised your taxes by stealth… and whoever wins the next election, even the Tories, you’re going to be expected to pay more in a way the majority earning less than you are not.

Most working people in the UK earn less than £36k. Any increase in taxes needs to fall on those earning more than that, for the reasons you state (try paying your mortgage/rent and bringing up kids on the kind of income most people have). Or raised by changes to taxes paid by people doing well but not working, eg GCT changes and closing down the use of schemes used to minimise income and wealth that are not wages.

To be slightly more serious,  I guess the numbers on that website are wildly different to most polls, I’m not sure why it comes up so high on Google searches.

Not sure about the Google question, but another polling expert was asked what’s going on with electoral calculus stuff and his theory was that their model is not paying enough attention to the don’t knows. Based on historical voting data, other polls attempt to convert don’t knows to either not voting or voting for someone.

You may not feel well off but you are better off than the other 85%.

Every single time this comes up on here, everyone completely ignores other factors.  A young professional couple on £50k EACH are much better off than a single parent with three young kids on £50k on their own in the South East.

So basically Sunak had a deprived childhood because he couldn’t watch The Simpsons?

Ok.

I’m looking forward to this interview tonight, the Tories know it’s going to look bad. I’m excited.

How old is he again? I watched it on Channel4.

kelvin
Full Member
How old is he again? I watched it on Channel4.

Older than he dresses. 😉

Surely it’d then also depend on where the young professional couple were? If they were also in the ‘South East’, say in Canary Wharf, then maybe not?

As Kelvin says, 50k is well above average/median income.  Yes you might be feeling the squeeze…..have a think how it feels if you’re earning less 50k.  Its more than I’ve ever earned in 2 years, let alone 1!  Good fortune means that in the last couple of years, this isn’t something that I’ve needed to worry about.

Only a socialist mindset could think that it is fair that someone who has worked their way up to a tragic wage of 50k, which equates to £700 something a week take home pay, barely enough to pay the monthly bills, feed and clothe the kids and dog and keep of roof over their heads, should have a greater proportion of their pay removed by the state than someone earning 49,999 and below.

I think most people these days think it is fair that the money that the higher paid get to “keep” is greater than the money those lower paid get to “keep”. An old fashioned socialist would balk at that. You’re looking at the wrong side of the equation. The better paid will remain better off… under Conservative, Labour, LibDem … or indeed Green(E&W) proposals.

Of course, the tax rate for someone earning £50001 is going to be almost the same as that for the person on £49999, with just £1 charged at the higher rate.

Can you afford Sky telly? I think that’s the benchmark today

While I think those that can afford to pay more tax should pay now tax the current tax system with vat, income tax,  ni and more,  and multiple boundaries with different rates,  is overly complicated and with too many people in strange or unfair nominal tax positions.  I’d like to see serious reform looked into, not just tinker with a few bands or rates.

As someone who earns over 50 k I wouldn’t consider myself well off tbh. I use to think I was. My mortgage has gone through the roof, as have my bills. After all my monthly direct debits have gone out, and I’ve paid for food, I have around 70 quid a week for ‘luxury’s’. I save nothing. My savings have disappeared over last 2 years. This is not to say I’m not far better off than many. I genuinely don’t know how I’d survive on £30k without downsizing my house or remortgaging (and I live in one of the cheapest parts of the country)

if they raise tax then fair enough, but its not justified imo until they go after all the tax dodgers, folks who have wealth without earning it (ie inherited), fat cats, and companies and corporations that make huge profits for shareholders at the expense of the rest of society

more than twice what I’m on, and four times what my other half is on

if she’s working full time and on 12.5 k she’s getting paid well under minimum wage

She’s not full time, she can’t be. I’m not going into that though. Wish I hadn’t mentioned it. Lots of people in that situation.

kelvin
Full Member
She’s not full time, she can’t be. I’m not going into that though. Wish I hadn’t mentioned it. Lots of people in that situation.

Lifes complex, you don’t owe us an explanation my friend. 👍

greyspokeFree Member
Of course, the tax rate for someone earning £50001 is going to be almost the same as that for the person on £49999, with just £1 charged at the higher rate.

I think grimep is fundamentally misunderstanding how taxation works

As someone lucky enough to be on a salary not much over 50k, with my wife earning considerably less and doing 95% of childcare with 4 kids and living in the SE…… I can confirm that its not easy, but I want a decent healthcare system and services that work for everyone so yeah paying tax is something Im willing to do.

and for ‘roughing it’ kudos we dont even have Netflix !!!!!!!!

I can confirm that its not easy, but I want a decent healthcare system and services that work for everyone so yeah paying tax is something Im willing to do

absolutely agree. However the fact it’s ’not Easy’ kind of proves the point that you aren’t ’well off’. You are however in a far better position than many. it also massively depends on your circumstances. A household with 2 people earning 35k will be far better off than a single parent earning 60k

10 years ago 60k would have had me absolutely rolling in cash. The state of the country now, not so much.

We pay more tax that at any time in the last 60 years or so, and while I don’t mind contributing, I would like to be reassured that 1. My taxes* are used to provide compassionate, useful, and available services, and 2. that before I’m asked for more money from my earnings, other avenues – business taxes, windfalls, taxes on assets, inheritance and even perhaps re-nationalisation of things to make them more affordable,  have been fully exploited.

*yes, I know.

By the looks of it, after ITV have broadcast that interview tonight, Rishi’s going to be regretting leaving Normandy even more than he does already

grimep has long been twitching my troll radar and isn’t doing a lot to change that view today. But if they aren’t, then they fundamentally misunderstand how the higher rate works.

We pay more tax that at any time in the last 60 years or so, and while I don’t mind contributing, I would like to be reassured that 1. My taxes* are used to provide compassionate, useful, and available services, and 2. that before I’m asked for more money from my earnings, other avenues – business taxes, windfalls, taxes on assets, inheritance and even perhaps re-nationalisation of things to make them more affordable,  have been fully exploited.

and 3 – aren’t being funnelled into the pockets of the already rich.

Ha it’s bonkers isn’t it.  How much did his education cost? The net result of which, is that he thought that it was a good idea during a GE campaign to leave the 80th anniversary of D-Day to record a political broadcast in which you say that inspite of going to one of the most expensive schools in the country, you had to do without as a child because you didn’t have Sky TV 😳

Maybe we should just abolish private schools on the basis that they’re ripping off rich parents 😂

Only a socialist mindset could think that it is fair that someone who has worked their way up to a tragic wage of 50k, which equates to £700 something a week take home pay, barely enough to pay the monthly bills, feed and clothe the kids and dog and keep of roof over their heads, should have a greater proportion of their pay removed by the state than someone earning 49,999 and below.

Except you’re wrong.

This is how indirect taxes look as a proportion of disposable income. I.e even once you’ve taken out the bigger mortgages of those top earners, they only pay less than 10% of the remainder in tax. Whereas the poorest are paying 3x more as a proportion of their disposable income.

That’s what’s not fair.

Sauce: Those socialists at the ONS.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/theeffectsoftaxesandbenefitsonhouseholdincome/financialyearending2022

Maybe the wee extra all the people on 50k and up will pay will allow for better schools, dentists for your kids, funding of council facilities you and your kids will use

That’s great but it’s paying for other people’s kids he objects to.

Forget about the is 50k a lot or not bobbins, it’s a distraction.

What we need is to tax income from assets more proportionally compared to the level of income on paye.

That above graph is something that Labour need to unleash into the wild & mobilise people with the promise change those percentages.

and @grimep you’re wrong about thinking that a sprinkling of socialism is bad for those of us lucky enough too be in the top percentiles.

I work in my well paid job designing things that make stuff to sell to people (aka engineering).

The more of the country is lifted out of poverty, the the more stuff they can be sold, the more things are required to make stuff, the more I need to design and the more I get paid.

It’s a better outcome than all the money flowing up the pyramid which eventually always causes it to collapse.

What we need is to tax income from assets more proportionally compared to the level of income on paye.

Absolutely this.

It’s insane that we’re taxed substantially far more for working than others are for sitting on their arses and just accumulating wealth simply because they have capital, so own (valuable)  stuff

Love how @andreajenkyns has cropped @trussliz (not to mention, Aaron Banks) out of the picture ??? pic.twitter.com/l3m5IjbX4Z

— TensegrityFan??? (@ProbablyN0tReal) June 12, 2024

what a love bunch of ****

what @llama said.

they love it when everyone fights/argues amongst themselves about who has it the worst.
35k-55k-75k….whatever, everyone thinks those above should be paying, its totally understandable but the ‘proper rich’ (however you want to define that) are hovering up assets. the entire system is designed to minimise the tax they pay on them which leads to them using the extra money they have hoovering up assets.

Ed still on holiday :)

? NEW: In his latest campaign stunt, Sir Ed Davey of the Liberal Democrats partakes in a water obstacle course pic.twitter.com/5Gg8CmCEOb

— Politics UK (@PolitlcsUK) June 12, 2024

I have a feeling that reforming housing would do a lot more for the disadvantaged than reforming tax. The problem though is that a lot of richer people might actually lose out.

Ed still on holiday

He seems to be having more fun than Rishi! though.

I have a feeling that reforming housing would do a lot more for the disadvantaged than reforming tax. The problem though is that a lot of richer people might actually lose out.

Agree, but could at least be offering some things that go towards it.

That above graph is something that Labour need to unleash into the wild & mobilise people with the promise change those percentages

This is the foundation of the (less than perfect) Scottish progressive income tax rates.
I’m in the fortunate position of earning enough that I would keep a lot more earned income south of the border. But I’m fortunate to earn what I do, and appreciate I’m contributing to public services so do not object.

Totally agree on a much more progressive tax system which looks at overall wealth, rather than earned income. EDIT: and this has to include Council Tax/local property tax. We need to develop a less complex system than we currently have too.

Agree that more parties should be calling clearly for this, particularly Labour, Lib Dem and SNP.
IIRC Green already suggest it.

they love it when everyone fights/argues amongst themselves about who has it the worst.

35k-55k-75k….whatever, everyone thinks those above should be paying, its totally understandable but the ‘proper rich’ (however you want to define that) are hovering up assets. the entire system is designed to minimise the tax they pay on them which leads to them using the extra money they have hoovering up assets

This is so true.  I think I’ve got to the point where I don’t really card what happens in this  election.  Labour will win, but inherit a shit show which they can’t resolve within 4 years even if they had brave, excellent ideas.

And given that the rich control the stupid, the Tories will be back in at the next election because that is our default position within the UK.

I can’t see how anyone who looks at the last 6 years can have any other viewpoint really.   But nonetheless keen to hear it….

I earn a reasonable amount, live in a very cheap area and am doing ok but don’t know how we’d afford to have kids.

I’m happy to pay my taxes (yes I’ll moan but….)

There does need reform. I know a couple of very wealthy people who pay way less than me.  In fact on paper they should be getting all sorts of benefits.  Also a few self employed who operate a two tin system. They do a good job of minimizing tax paid on declared earnings but also have an envelope that is always pretty full.

The system needs simplified and enforced.

Grant Shapps warning about a Labour ‘supermajority’

Well of course he is, he’s going to lose his seat along with scores of other Tory MPs who perhaps ought to have ganged up against the far right if they wanted their party to survive. Idiots. Good to their hubris wrecking the party.

Ed Davey is really living his best life – he’s going to be exhausted by the time this campaign ends – maybe with a broken bone or two as a souvenir.

It’s insane that we’re taxed substantially far more for working than others are for sitting on their arses and just accumulating wealth simply because they have capital, so own (valuable)  stuff

couldn’t agree more. I don’t object to paying more tax. I object to paying more than my fair share. And what I mean by that is people far richer and with far more assets than me pay proportionally far less. If more tax needs raised, by all means tax folks on 50k more, so long as those with huge nest eggs and assets tucked away are also paying accordingly

And if I’m paying more, I expect to see more. Better services, an nhs that isn’t on its knees. I truely resent the thought my hard earned is, rather than being used for bettering society, finding its way into already rich peoples pockets.