UK Election!

Without knowing all the people and their skills on offer though I can’t say whether upping the % while getting me the most qualified people is achievable currently which points to a different problem.

Is absolutely conversation we should be having, and is the problem we - as a nation/society - need to be solving. Whatifs and tokenism do not help.

Institutionally racist is my conclusion watching from the sidelines.

Ah... ok... so....

Institutionally racist is my conclusion watching from the sidelines. Its obvious and overt to me.

While you may be right,  it doesn't seem to be in the report. Written by the group that had all the actual evidence.

Do you think anything has changed since the report was written?

Not significantly watching the treatment of Abbott and other minority candidates who are clearly held to a higher standard than white folk and more easily deselected

What do you think of the response of the current Labour leadership as detailed at the link you shared?

Mealy mouthed fine words with no action.  Where are the significant numbers of sackings?  should have been dozens from all side being given their jotters

More cash - institutional racism is when an organisation consistently discriminates against folk because of race.  The labour party does so. ( and on other grounds)

Failure to address such behaviours (which sadly happen in any large organisation) when identified could well be a sign of institutional racism.

Well the behaviors still persist so what conclusion does that bring?  Look at the treatment of abbott and co.  why were those guilty of the discriminatory behaviour not6 sacked>  there were loads of them on all sides

institutional racism is when an organisation consistently discriminates against folk because of race. The labour party does so. ( and on other grounds)

I did say you may be right!

My question really is why is that not in the report if the evidence was provided at the time. As much a criticism of the report than your opinion.

(Though you do come across as very entrenched with a few comments and opinions recently)

clearly held to a higher standard than white folk and more easily deselected

Interesting opinion. My take is that most of those deselected due to the tightening of expectations on standards after Forde have been white. But specifically as regards Abbot, she apologised, and took the training Labour have put in place. She should have be reinstated faster…but looking at other MPs and councillors etc that have been through this, the whole process needs to be quicker, I see no evidence that she was singled because of her ethnicity.

In response to Binners 🙂

My question really is why is that not in the report if the evidence was provided at the time. As much a criticism of the report than your opinion.

Not in the remit?  It had already been hugely extended.  IMO if the culture tolerates discrimination then the organisation is institutionally racist

Has there been an election, did I miss something, did Reform sweep to power and overnight demand anyone with any skin pigment should officially 'go back where they came from'.

Listen to yourselves, racism is there just below the surface regardless if ethnicity. If we really want move to genuinely inclusive society we appoint people on skill and experience, ethnicity should not matter. To a greater extent this is what Starmer has done. The best way of increasing harmony in society is not to keep nit picking and point scoring, we need a more equitable society so people are less likely to be descending into othering.

Ah, good stuff, we're back to being predominantly centre right now on this site :yes:

As for deselection, that was as simple as you could get, even Abbott, who was brought back in before the election is still actively messaging against Labour via her posts online, less than a week in government and you have MPs not towing the line, and probably the reason she'll be kicked out the party sooner rather than later, not due to race, just due to doing their own thing, same thing would happen to anyone who did that in their day job.

Interesting to see if the newly elected Independent Leicester South MP will be the first MP forced to resign following the General Election.

https://www.thejc.com/news/politics/campaigner-for-new-pro-gaza-independent-mp-charged-with-terrorism-offences-n23wg6b9

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/law/article/leicester-man-terrorism-offences-charged-ttp72pcx5

https://news.sky.com/story/jonathan-ashworth-calls-on-new-leicester-south-mp-to-explain-dealings-with-man-charged-with-terror-offences-13176088

tjagain
Full Member
The centrist/left bias of the forum is pretty hard to deny,

Its not centre left. Its centre right establishment. Its just a load of folk who are centre right claim to be centre left. I find the right wing establishment comfy middle class bias very obvious.

I had to make some sweeping statements to keep a large post as brief as possible. Also I think we could could have huge post on where we all are on the political spectrum but fundamentally it doesn't matter.

The last point in my post is what matters to me. The posters on here want a better society, I dont care where they think they are on the political spectrum and they shouldn't care where I think they are either. 😀

Interesting to see if the newly elected Independent Leicester South MP will be the first MP forced to resign following the General Election.

So he should resign because someone he knows is being charged?, what’s the actual offence the person in question is being charged with?

@somafunk https://www.leics.police.uk/news/leicestershire/news/2024/july/man-charged-with-encouragement-of-terrorism/

Not that its evidence the MP has done anything more than simply talk to constituents

Its not centre left.  Its centre right establishment.  Its just a load of folk who are centre right claim to be centre left.

LMAO

Of course it’s left wing here - everyone is happy to use performative terms like Gammon, talk about how hideously right wing even One Nation Tories are, and see any hint of sympathy with Reform as signs of  unadorned stupidity or evil.

Not that I necessarily disagree with many of the opinions expressed here, but I am surprised by the level of self awareness your comment shows.

Cheers piemonster,

”Majid Novsarka, also known as Majid Freeman, 36, of Cecil Road, Leicester, has been charged with encouragement of terrorism and supporting a proscribed organisation.”

I guess the dickhead was waving a flag or similar at one of the marches, bloody idiot.  Meanwhile 40,000 have been indiscriminately killed in gaza, and a very clear distinction is made in the media when reporting Ukrainian deaths vs Palestinian deaths, as an aside have we seen the legal advice given to the government back in January this year regarding the possibility of enabling a genocide by supplying military equipment and enabling the use of UK surveillance drones/aircraft/air bases in Cyprus, I believe Kier Starmer was asking for it to be published months ago as a matter of extreme urgency so I imagine it’s top of his to-do list.

Agree, it is left wing.  Not socialist left wing but no way centre right.

Petty hair splitting aside, I'll echo what someone way upthread said...I'm still a little bit in disbelief at seeing our government actualy, errm, governing?

It's almost hard to belive after the last lot, whos M.O. was seemingly just to gut the country, sever international relations, stoke hatred and run off with the dosh.

Is this real life?

Governing you say? Timpson is the 15th Prisons Minister in 14 years. The civil service think it can take a year to master the brief. I’ll let that settle.

BTW the UK is socially centre left and economically centre right. I see little evidence that STW is any different.  The party occupying that middle ground may have moved more than once in recent years. The populace has not.

Anyone who thinks the consensus on this forum is left wing in any way has been a frog thats been boiled.  Ernie is left wing. I am centre left.  we are both way to the left of the consensus on here   the labour party is centrist at best and most of its policies are centre right.  SNP have been way to the left of labour and they are centre left.

the political consensus in this country has moved so far right.   Now lets see.  Against tax rises, increased defense spending, no benefits increase ( even refusing to look at the 2 child limit), no redistributive policy, pro brexit, pro privatisation, neoliberal economic policy. very left wing. indeed

Name me one left wing policy the labour party have?

Why does everything have to be neatly pigeon holed as left or right? it's a very simplistic, childish, even, way of looking at things.

Problems require the correct solutions, not be dictated by some partisan ideology regardless of whether its suitable.

Why does everything have to be neatly pigeon holed as left or right?

And why do people sound like they are talking down to anyone who isn't exactly like them?

Name me one left wing policy the labour party have?

VAT on private school fees

Fining water company bonuses for polluting

If market dynamics is a RW ethos, increasing minimum wage to a living wage and reforming zero hours rules is quite LW

Problems require the correct solutions, not be dictated by some partisan ideology regardless of whether its suitable.

Correct solution for who?  What is "correct" for millionaires and landlords may be very different for what is "correct" for the ex squaddie living on the street.

the political consensus in this country has moved so far right

So, it’s not you that’s left wing, it’s just that everyone else is far right wing.   Or more realistically you are just much further left of centre than your subjective perspective tells you.

But let’s try an objective measure, what media outlet do people use round here? My impression is that by far the most quoted outlet is The Guardian, with the BBC sometimes referenced despite a thread not too long ago about how awfully right wing biased it (or Laura Kuenssberg) was. Right wing news outlets are referred to in derogatory terms such as “Daily Heil”. From this we can conclude that most people posting around here are centre left or further left.

I don’t expect any argument to deflect you from your opinion, so I’ll say no more.

VAT on private school fees

Ill give you that one - a tiny marginal policy

Fining water company bonuses for polluting

Nope - the left wing solutioin is nationalization

increasing minimum wage to a living wage

Is that a commitment?  I have never seen it mooted and the "living wage~" is far from a living wage

reforming zero hours rules is quite LW

NO commitment to anything radical nor to banning it.  Whats proposed is window dressing and will have zero effect

None of those things are very radicaland all would fit happily in the centre right partiesd manifgestos europe wide

Where is the radical stuff?  Redistibution of wealth?  Taxation on rich folk?  Nationalisation of monopolies, left wing economics?

The guardian is not left wing!  Its liberal and thru most ofrecent history has not supported labour - only doing so when labour has moved right

Or more realistically you are just much further left of centre than your subjective perspective tells you..

Its the political centre of the UK is much further right than in most of europe.  I am lookiing at international views

"Why does everything have to be neatly pigeon holed as left or right? it’s a very simplistic, childish, even, way of looking at things.

Problems require the correct solutions, not be dictated by some partisan ideology regardless of whether its suitable."

Possibly the most sensible opinion ever posted in an STW politics thread!

FWIW, I think STW is generally liberal politically, and that's not something I've ever thought of in terms of left and right wing ideology (but understand that might not be a 'traditional' view).

FWIW, I think STW is generally liberal politically, and that’s not something I’ve ever thought of in terms of left and right wing ideology (but understand that might not be a ‘traditional’ view).

I would agree. Liberal which as you say is not left wing.

the political centre of the UK is much further right than in most of europe

I’ve worked in a lot of European countries, particularly Germany, and I assure you that is simply not true.

The guardian is not left wing!

I rest my case your honour.

I'm sorry, when you said LW policies I didn't realise the radical was silent 😉

https://labour.org.uk/change/kickstart-economic-growth/#making-work-pay

Making work pay
Greater in-work security, better pay, and more autonomy in the workplace improve the lives of working people and bring substantial economic benefits. Britain’s outdated employment laws are not fit for the modern economy, and recent Conservative legislation has fuelled hostility and confrontation leading to the worst period in industrial relations since the 1980s.

For too many people a job does not offer the route out of poverty it should: either because work is insecure, inflexible, or low paid; or because people face barriers when trying to move into a better job. Responsible businesses face being undercut when rights are not enforced properly.

Labour will stop the chaos and turn the page to create a partnership between business and trade unions, by implementing ‘Labour’s Plan to Make Work Pay: Delivering a New Deal for Working People’ in full – introducing legislation within 100 days. We will consult fully with businesses, workers, and civil society on how to put our plans into practice before legislation is passed. This will include banning exploitative zero hours contracts; ending fire and rehire; and introducing basic rights from day one to parental leave, sick pay, and protection from unfair dismissal. We will strengthen the collective voice of workers, including through their trade unions, and create a Single Enforcement Body to ensure employment rights are upheld. These changes will improve the lives of working people across the entire UK.

Labour will also make sure the minimum wage is a genuine living wage. We will change the remit of the independent Low Pay Commission so for the first time it accounts for the cost of living. Labour will also remove the discriminatory age bands, so all adults are entitled to the same minimum wage, delivering a pay rise to hundreds of thousands of workers across the UK.

I'm a lib dem who voted labour, and I think we should increase spending on defence...

So what the does that make me? a political vagrant?

How long would it take - and at what cost - to send a cold flannel to Edinburgh to cool a fevered brow?

Everyone just relax - STW won't make any material change to the UK unless...there are some cabinet members hiding behind some of the user names; Kier, are you there?

I don’t expect any argument to deflect you from your opinion, so I’ll say no more.

fair point - and I wont be able to change anyone elses minds either.  Its one of those things.  People claim to be more left wing than they are and will hear nothing different - same as everyone is an above average driver and a good dog owner 🙂

Jonv - fine words - where are the concrete commitments?  all that is is fine words without substance

Anyway - I shall bow out as above

Just one4 more

I’ve worked in a lot of European countries, particularly Germany, and I assure you that is simply not true.

Pensions, benefits and employment rights all much higher than the UK

...And this is why my friends, it's a bloody miracle Labour managed to get a majority this time and why they are the natural party of opposition ordinarily. 😉

So does that make germany left or right?

Jonv – fine words – where are the concrete commitments?  all that is is fine words without substance

FFS, we're 5 days in.

But, FWIW

by implementing ‘Labour’s Plan to Make Work Pay: Delivering a New Deal for Working People’ in full – introducing legislation within 100 days.

OFC you'll say we have to see what the legislation is, but also OFC in the real world you write a manifesto 'in terms' and then when elected decide what you can implement. And with that majority - they can introduce pretty much what they want with high confidence of getting it through.

Kick off!

A row has broken out between potential Tory leadership rivals Suella Braverman and Kemi Badenoch after Mrs Badenoch accused the former home secretary of having a "very public" nervous breakdown.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg3eqy1r5q0o

I’m a lib dem who voted labour, and I think we should increase spending on defence…

So what the does that make me?

Since that also describes me, obviously you must be intelligent and very sensible.

The right have normalised economic thinking for the Labour.  Centrists have adopted this without any scrutiny.

It's totally clear from everything Reeves has said thus far.

In other words all pragmatic and leftist options are off the table in favour of shitty market solutions to huge problems caused by shitty market solutions.

We will see anyway. Currently I think the Labour economic programme is destined to fail / damp squib unless someone turns some proper taps on for something of a well targeted magnitude.

Since that also describes me

Can I thank you both. And I’m glad the LibDem seat count ended up so high. I hope that compensates in some way for you having to vote tactically. And I also hope that the Labour government remain cognisant of the votes you (and Green supporters) lent them to get them over the line.

Love it!

Ms Braverman has faced a furious backlash since she launched an extraordinary attack on the LGBT+ community during a speech in Washington, in which she described government buildings flying rainbow flags as “occupied territory”.

She added: “Basic truths about our party are not easy to hear. But I’ll keep telling them on behalf of the common sense, patriotic, conservative majority.”

She's gone full crazy!

“occupied territory”

Even by her standards, wow.

I suspect she might be right wing after all.

Even by her standards, wow.

I suspect she might be right wing after all.

I wonder what the leader of the UK conservative party has to say about this? Technically it's Rishi Sunak, still, I think?

Okay so they fight to stop the far-right making further advances in elections, including in the next general election, has started.

Unite against fascist Tommy Robinson in London

https://standuptoracism.org.uk/sat-27-july-protest-unite-against-fascist-tommy-robinson-london/

The threat posed is heightened by a toxic climate of racism, in the wake of the breakthrough of Nigel Farage and his racist Reform UK party in the general election, which now boasts five MPs. Fascist Robinson endorsed Farage, and hard right Tory Suella Braverman, and called on his supporters to vote Reform UK. 

Internationally fascists and the far right have made frightening gains in the European elections, taking some 30 percent in France, Italy and Austria. While anti racists and anti fascists dominated the streets in the week before the French election, and are right to celebrate the fascist Le Pen and her RN party’s failure to win the election, we must continue to sound the alarm at the horror fascists and the far right in the ascendancy in France, where the fascist RN went from 89 seats to 143, and across Europe. Trump returning to the White House in November is a real prospect. 

As the above article points out Yaxley-Lennon has to keep constantly rebranding himself because anti-fascists relentlessly expose him and his supporters as thugs. He presumably believes that Nigel Farage's Parliamentary breakthrough will give him mainstream credibility. Simply ignoring Yaxley-Lennon is not an option.

Fascism needs three vital things to thrive..... economic instability, a section of society to scapegoat, and for good people to ignore them.

Simply ignoring Yaxley-Lennon is not an option.

Why?

Oh, I see, it’s a counter demonstration.

Braverman - does she actually believe this baloney?  Or knowingly grifting?  Or lost her marbles?