UK Election!

My parents in law are voting there and voting Tory. Typical daily mail reading, brexit voting, ‘its the immigrants that have ruined the country’, poorly educated, poorly read, small minded, small lives lived, glass half empty god’s waiting clingons that make me proud to be British.

My Parents are also in Fareham, and have voted conservative in the past. Neither read the daily mail (torygraph or times), both are well read, but both are heavily influenced by the community in Fareham. My mum has always said in the past that SB is a ‘very good local MP’ – however my Mum was also totally unaware of SB’s voting record, until I showed it to her. Neither will be voting conservative this year (or reform).

my wife and I once decided last minute to vote for Libdem, Mark Oaten. Him then winning by 2 votes was a really odd feeling.

You’ve already completed democracy then, so no need to participate further!

Whoever posted a few pages back about NHS patient info being dumbed down to the reading age of a 7/8 year old (“your tummy”) had it right.

I finished university and have had GI surgery. I still don’t know the difference between “stomach”, “intestines” “colon”, “guts”, “belly”, “abdomen”, and “tummy”. But everybody understands “tummy”. Do you want people to understand or not?

What’s wrong with using more simple language anyway? Is “stool” that much better than “poo”? Why?

I don’t agree with all of this politico-intellectual snobbery against people with lower rates of formal literacy, especially when it comes to their health.

Agreed,  it may offend some of the intelligentsia by using simplistic terms, but anything that results in earlier diagnosis and understanding is better than the alternative.

You should see old style clinical trial informed consent forms,  they were shite (some still are), but making stuff understandable is critically important

And so our Tory continues to use incorrect data and claims – another leaflet and adverts online claiming that the 2019 Election Results from a poll (not even the real results) are relevant today in the 2024 election…They claim that they are second to SNP when in reality they are on 4%, not 35% as they claim…

Desperate lies.

A relative has recently broken their hand, but thought the break was in the finger due to being shown an x-ray by a doctor who only referred to the break as being in a metacarpal. But never explained what the metacarpal is! So they were then on the phone to the fracture clinic saying that they were worried about the pain radiating up to the hand, and the nurse on the other end took a tone of “well yeah, obviously”.  It was only after the call that they had another look at the photo of the x-ray, compared it to a stock image online and realised that they were looking at the bones in the ‘meat’ of the hand rather than the bones in the fingers.

PS fully agree with TJ on inheritance tax, also as someone who stands to inherit (can see it skipping a generation and going straight to my kids) it is a massive cause of wealth inequality given current house prices. I’d also happily see all assets get used for care, why should someone inherit if the older person needs care they are unwilling to provide?

Nuffield researched this – basically we seem to be moving towards a place where what you inherit defines your future wealth more than what you earn. It is a huge social justice issue, where the wealthy get to keep more of their wealth and pay proportionally less out to society and for personal costs, and those without/low inheritance get to pay proportionally more towards society and personal costs.

The growing size of inheritances is set to reduce social mobility for younger generations

I see the Tories have even wheeled out the ‘Let the bodies pile high’ Partygate bloke, such is their desperation. His impression of Sir Les Patterson is getting better every time though.

https://x.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1808232491636924612

It’s still tightened up.

Thank heavens for first-past-the-post eh?

There you go folks. It’s all because the Tories were too ‘woke’. Yes Sue Ellen, that’s the only reasonable conclusion anyone could reach

The battle within the Tory party is going to be all consuming, for quite a while, I wonder if there are actually any grown ups left in the party to steer them?

trying to out-farage farage has resulted in their destruction, the right wing press shows no signs of accepting this so theyll just double down is my prediction

Thank heavens for first-past-the-post eh?

Why? Would Labour having to work with the LibDems & Greens on policy be that bad?

Polling (and voting) would be different with PR as well, of course.

trying to out-farage farage has resulted in their destruction, the right wing press shows no signs of accepting this so theyll just double down is my prediction

I wonder what the outcome will be once the result is announced – depending of course how much they lose by (or God forbid, that they actually squeak a win!). If it’ll immediately descend into a full on rats-in-a-sack fight to become leader, if Sunak will hang around long enough for the fallout or if the private jet to California is already waiting at the end of the runway?

I see the Tories have even wheeled out the ‘Let the bodies pile high’ Partygate bloke

And that really is desperate. All the polling shows that one of the main reasons the Tories are so unpopular is because everyone remembers the sick relatives they couldn’t visit, the weddings cancelled and the funerals of loved ones they couldn’t attend, all while this was going on in Number 10….

On 30 May, Rishi Sunak told a Q&A audience that he received a fixed penalty notice because he ‘showed up to a meeting.’ His disgraced predecessor Boris Johnson repeatedly told Parliament there were no parties. We will not forget. Two days and counting.pic.twitter.com/JTzplFh9sw

— Nicholas Pegg (@NicholasPegg) July 2, 2024

Thank heavens for first-past-the-post eh?

Why?

Sorry I should have made it clear. Thank heavens for first-past-the-post because although 40% is exactly the same as Labour got in 2017 this time, due to arithmetic associated with FPTP, if Labour get that share of the vote it will result in a comfortable majority for them.

This I consider to be a good thing. Although I do fully support PR.

So you wouldn’t want Green MPs in government? You’d prefer a Labour majority government based on a minority vote?

You’d prefer a Labour majority government

I think you’ll find thats a ‘supermajority’ Kelvin ;)

jimster01
Just had a look on the tactical voting website, “Not Sure”, West Worcestershire is a tory stronghold. ****!!!

Lived in Malvern for 1/2 my life and was always frustrated by this. Michael Spicer was a ****.

At least there’s a hope that it might change but I would have thought there was more chance of it turning orange than red????

Too late for me to vote to avoid a supermajority. Mandated wokery and surrendering for us all?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jul/03/list-terrible-policy-conservatives-britain-2010

Just received an email from the LibDems about “blanket” last minute digital advertising by Labour. Anyone experienced it? Hopefully targeted at swing voters (or possible stay at home voters).

So you wouldn’t want Green MPs in government? You’d prefer a Labour majority government based on a minority vote?

It is pretty clear what I said. I said that I would prefer a Labour majority government based on a 40% minority vote than the situation which occurred in 2017 when Labour got 40% but were in opposition.

I have no idea why you mentioned the Greens. I am a sometime Green voter and I have already stated that I support PR.

when Labour got 40% but were in opposition

Under FPTP. The result could have been very different under PR. A Labour/LibDem/Green block would have been bigger than anything the Tories could muster.

You’d prefer a Labour majority government based on a minority vote?

I prefer Reform having next to no MPs. Of course I’d love the greens and maybe some lib dems to be in govt but for now keeping Reform at bay should be the singular focus and FPTP is currently the best way of doing that. When Reform are long gone and their populist bullshit is marginalised after 10 years of public service improvement and better living standards we can think about PR. Until then though we need to do everything we can to keep Reform as far away from power as possible.

Yes which is why I support PR

We’re doing it again… sorry everyone else!

@grimep Free Member
Country wants: genuinely right of centre party to replace fake conservatives.

Country gets: communism….  https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/02/labour-inheritance-tax-policy-redistribute-family-money-lea/

😂

I think most people would like far more redistribution policies than just taxing inheritance.

Which would you rather, a new CT scanner, or some insufferable trust funded oik getting Daddy’s Ferrari collection?

Country wants: genuinely right of centre party to replace fake conservatives.

In an alternative universe Liz Truss was hugely popular and the Tories were not forced to replace her after 49 days.

I wonder how she’s getting on in grimep’s alternative universe?

Think it’s worth repeating Ernie’s point that Starmer’s hollowed out labour party and manifesto of ‘realistic’ policies looks like it’s going to get fewer votes than Corbyn the communist’s manifesto for socialist revolution. Add to that the highly significant vote for Reform I think it’s clear that a significant proportion of the electorate are done with business-as-usual politics and would like something a bit more radical. Labour would do well to take note. For a start they could bin their fiscal conservatism bollocks and immeditely adopt Farage’s policies of raising the lower tax band to 20k and stop paying commercial banks interest on QE reserves.

cant think why the tories are going to be wiped out…

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jul/03/list-terrible-policy-conservatives-britain-2010

Nuffield researched this – basically we seem to be moving towards a place where what you inherit defines your future wealth more than what you earn.

I’m a bit surprised by this.  Mainly because the average generational inheritance age must be what – late 50s or early 60s? A lot of life has already been lived by then. The STW massive is predominantly middle aged and middle class. How many of us have actually inherited anything yet? We might if it doesn’t get eaten up in care home fees etc, but not yet.

For me the much larger disparity is when people are younger – the attitude of the home you grow up in to education, the economic confidence to build up debt and go to university. The bank of mum and dad being able to afford to shout you a house deposit. By the time I’m 60 and do I or I don’t inherit a £100K or whatever, the prosperity ship has already sailed. It’s icing on a very nice cake rather than an indicator of a life lived in wealth.

adopt Farage’s policies of raising the lower tax band to 20k and stop paying commercial banks interest on QE reserves.

yeah because the markets definitely wouldnt go full Truss on us, especially for the latter!

Agreed with that dazh.

I’m starting to get a bit torn again now. No fan at all of this Labour party but literally hate the Tories to beyond words. I’m a Green at heart…. Macclesfield looks like going to Labour for the first time ever. Only a 9% lead in the polls though and I reckon that that gap will be much closer in reality. Just really really not sure that I can tactically voted for this Labour party. My labour candidate is a Westminster councillor FFS so hardly breaking the ‘westminster elite’ stereotype.

Think it’s worth repeating Ernie’s point that Starmer’s hollowed out labour party and manifesto of ‘realistic’ policies looks like it’s going to get fewer votes than Corbyn the communist’s manifesto for socialist revolution. Add to that the highly significant vote for Reform I think it’s clear that a significant proportion of the electorate are done with business-as-usual politics and would like something a bit more radical. Labour would do well to take note. For a start they could bin their fiscal conservatism bollocks and immeditely adopt Farage’s policies of raising the lower tax band to 20k and stop paying commercial banks interest on QE reserves.

I see it differently. I look across to Europe (or the US for that matter)  and see a swathe of the less sophisticated portion of the voting public having their crotch stroked by the right wing populists. In the UK that’s Reform and Braveman’s version of the tories. I think in years to come history might suggest that Starmer’s dull but not too scary polices saved the UK from itself for at least a few years.

>Just received an email from the LibDems about “blanket” last minute digital advertising by Labour. Anyone
>experienced it? Hopefully targeted at swing voters (or possible stay at home voters).

They have full coverage today (and yesterday) all over the Daily Mail website.

The Daily Mail site was Reform branded on Monday.

Just received an email from the LibDems about “blanket” last minute digital advertising by Labour. Anyone experienced it? Hopefully targeted at swing voters (or possible stay at home voters).

Yea, my feeds full of it.

I’m actually a bit worried as it’s a new constituency so I don’t think anyone really knows what tactical voting looks like.

GTTO says it would have been Tory last time with Lab in 2nd.  Reading next door is Labour.  Wokingham was Con, but they lost the council to a Lib/Lab coalition since the last GE. Labour have obviously spent their money online here.  The Lib Dems have been leafleting and we had Ed Davey doing Zumba, and the Con’s have been out in force knocking on doors (they have a very active local association because they’ve typically had lots of council seats).

I’m sort of hoping for a large Reform vote to make sure the right is split enough that it’s a fair fight.

It’s just oh so depressing listening to Labour going on about being realistic, rather than the likes of the Greens or Reform promising the earth, knowing they’ll never have to deliver anything anyway, why can’t labour just make huge promises for change, instead of being pragmatic before potentially forming a government 😡

38% now ffs.

https://x.com/Survation/status/1808427141400330357

why can’t labour just make huge promises for change, i

You mean – why can’t labour  just lie?

I’m guessing because they’d rather not be found out in 12 months.

I’ll flip your position – why can’t parties that promise the undeliverable not be struck from the ballot card? It’s the populists first and most important weapon.

It’s just oh so depressing listening to Labour going on about being realistic, rather than the likes of the Greens or Reform promising the earth, knowing they’ll never have to deliver anything anyway, why can’t labour just make huge promises for change, instead of being pragmatic before potentially forming a government

Because the RW press would take them to pieces on it, then they’d fail to deliver it, then the Tories would get back in next time around.

The press are terrified by the thought of a big Labour majority – look at the doom-mongering already been printed in block capitals in the Daily Mail, The Telegraph etc. Never underestimate how much the press shape the Government and how ridiculously RW they (many of them) are.

I agree it’s depressing, there’s no hope, no passion, not much in the way of charisma but it IS realistic. And right now, what we desperately need is a shock dose of realism – not yet more empty promises of sunlit uplands.

I’m a bit surprised by this.  Mainly because the average generational inheritance age must be what – late 50s or early 60s? A lot of life has already been lived by then. The STW massive is predominantly middle aged and middle class. How many of us have actually inherited anything yet? We might if it doesn’t get eaten up in care home fees etc, but not yet.

For me the much larger disparity is when people are younger – the attitude of the home you grow up in to education, the economic confidence to build up debt and go to university. The bank of mum and dad being able to afford to shout you a house deposit. By the time I’m 60 and do I or I don’t inherit a £100K or whatever, the prosperity ship has already sailed. It’s icing on a very nice cake rather than an indicator of a life lived in wealth.

I suppose everyone’s timings will be different, but ultimately that financial security you refer to in relation to kids and their parents will apply up a generation too.  Parents who might be anticipating a windfall in their 60’s will be better placed to gift their savings to their kids at 50 to put towards house deposits, university education, etc.  Either that or there’s nothing stopping the inheritance being split across multiple generations so the kids are getting it directly.