UK Election!

Private helthcare is more expensive for worse outcomes

It really depends on what you’re looking at. The bit of private medical my friend manages for the UK can deliver four times the throughput at lower cost to the NHS and the same success rate. This is for a high volume minor procedure. They don’t want to do anything more complicated. This is free at the point of use for the patient.

There are some minor procedures and actions that private can do well, but only some.

Primary healthcare and consultations should all be NHS in my book, that people are having to use private for that is wrong.

In an ideal world the whole of healthcare would be NHS run, but we don’t live in that world.

What we need to do is stop measuring the private provision against NHS as if it were like for like. The NHS picks up the most complicated and risky procedures so you’re not comparing like for like the vast majority of the time

Primary healthcare

GPs?  I thought they were all private and pretty much always had been. Free at the point of use of course.

Am I wrong?

Gps are an odd one.  Private businesses but basically one customer

I do not believe its a good system but i wouldnt tamper with it now.  One for long term planning.

Primary as in first contact with – not necessarily GP’s. Don’t focus on the use of that word, more the principal I was getting at.

My point was if you need to seek medical help, whether that be GP, A&E, self referral, you shouldn’t need to pay to expedite being seen

My overseas postal vote hasn’t turned up so I guess I am going to be one of the disenfranchised this election.

Contacted my local council back home to ask if they could set me up for an emergency proxy vote and apparently they can’t. They said its not their fault as they dispatched on time and to “take it up with Royal Mail.”

Democracy in action.

I see the Tories use of their made-up nonsense ‘Supermajority’, which Sunak has been endlessly repeating, is going well…

I suspect that for many it’s not that they want to see a labour supermajority, rather they want an absolute, smoking, desolate ruin of a tory party on Friday morning. Big beasts* having to give congratulatory speeches to their opponents. Rishi having to admit he has been truly rejected by the people that matter, having not been selected by them in the first place.

We’ve discussed at length whether that is actually a good thing or not, whether it opens the door for a new centre right or just makes the remnants + Reform into a further right party instead. That’s a problem for 8th July onwards. Right now, this is pure vindictive payback time, and I’ve got the coffee on ready for a late night on Thursday.

* those that aren’t already running away and hiding

Postal votes have been very slow coming out, only got ours late last week. Don’t think anyone was expecting a snap election.

Gps are an odd one.  Private businesses but basically one customer

I do not believe its a good system but i wouldn’t tamper with it now.  One for long term planning.

Given its the one place all of us access the health service, I’d actually say that IS the place to tamper with.  I suspect GPs though will not welcome the interference.

Democracy in action.

Messy, huh?

Think of all the UK based families on holiday this week. Slow hand clap for Rishi.

I suspect GPs though will not welcome the interference.

Considering the current models problems I am not sure that would be a significant issue. The ones which are working as partnerships could be left alone and then the rest slowly rolled up over time.

Its worth noting the mechanism was put in place under new labour for the gps to be rolled together under a corporate banner. After a slow start it picked up under the tories especially with Centene but they are now exiting the market since they found it unprofitable.

Think of all the UK based families on holiday this week. Slow hand clap for Rishi.

If they are too lazy to just order a private jet flight back for thursday before heading back out again there is no helping them.

Considering the current models problems I am not sure that would be a significant issue. The ones which are working as partnerships could be left alone and then the rest slowly rolled up over time.

The trouble would be that “new” NHS GP surgeries would pop up in towns and suburbs where there’s growing demand.

Leaving the older partnership ones in outlying villages.

Which doesn’t inherently make it a 2-tier system, but it would need very careful management to make sure of it.

That and there’s already a shortage of GP’s / appointments so you can’t encourage those existing ones to leave and make way for in-house GP surgeries because they’d probably just retire.

I and others in my family have had to resort to private healthcare.

Whereas Streeting hasn’t done so, either for his cancer or for a scan for a recent scare. He has talked about making it possible for people <b>who </b>can’t otherwise afford it to ‘resort’ in similar manner. As a temporary measure.

Don’t think anyone was expecting a snap election.

Ladbrokes might say there were a few expecting it.

Talking to the several GPS I know, it’s a shortage of GP’ numbers generally and in addition, trying to get the ones that do exist to move to rural unfashionable areas that’s the biggest issue. The NHS owning the practices rather than the Dr’s isn’t necessarily going to sort that.

Worth pointing out that not owning the practices has saved the NHS a lot of money in property, equipment etc overhead and that’s part of the reason the system has not been changed. Doctors themselves are only part of the cost in operating a General Practice.

GP’s will also tell you that they are constantly expected to move their practicing closer to the way the Hospital system works and that “those in charge” are mainly hospital doctors driving this. The GP’s I know feel this is not an approach that works because primary care in the community via GP is very different to providing secondary care in a hospital system.

This isn’t in my direct experience but I have been told various versions by several different people who are part of General Practice.

Worth pointing out that not owning the practices has saved the NHS a lot of money in property, equipment etc

Well, yeah, but also if GPs didn’t have to cover their own overheads, then the NHS could pay them less and it wouldn’t affect their take home pay. And perhaps if surgeries were more centralised with the facilities provided by the NHS like any other employer, then there could be efficiencies on property, maintenance, IT, this, that, the other.

Don’t think anyone was expecting a snap election.

Certainly not the Conservative party

About 10 years ago my postal vote did not arrive. I went to the polling station on the day to ask what to do, they gave me a phone number. I rang, they took it very seriously and that afternoon at work a lady appeared with a voting paper. I voted on the bonnet of her car, popped it in a special satchel and off she went. Awesome.

@politecameraaction possibly. It’s probably not quite as simple as it appears.

I suspect that the NHS gets a lot of that stuff for less now via the current arrangements than it would cost to provide it all from scratch / buy it back.

I don’t know enough about the detail of gp arrangements to comment properly, I’m sure others can.

edit: a quick google reveals…..

GPCE chair Dr Katie Bramall-Stainer  pointed out that since 2019, CPI inflation increased by 21.2%, while core contract investment only increased by 12.5%.

( core contract is not just GP pay but what the business is paid to provide it’s GP service)

also see….

https://www.pricebailey.co.uk/blog/national-minimum-wage-increase-doctors/

I see the Tories use of their made-up nonsense ‘Supermajority’, which Sunak has been endlessly repeating, is going well…

They seemed perfectly happy and triumphant with their 80-seat majority last time round.

Typical bunch of bullies – they can’t stand it when the tables are turned. Same reason many of them are standing down this election – they have no interest in being in opposition, they just want to be in power. So much for democracy.

If I hear anyone complaining about a Labour supermajority, I’m going to respond with “Will of the people!” 😂

There was a party political broadcast on channel 4 just now for the Social Democratic Party

Its like a cheese dream, which then turns to a nightmare when Rod Liddle pops up to endorse them. Rod Liddle?!! Who thought he’d be a vote winner? 😳

Don’t think anyone was expecting a snap election.

Ladbrokes might say there were a few expecting it.

🤣

Yeah, didn’t know the SDP were still a thing till a few days ago. Basically standing on a Reform type platform.

At the end it almost sounds reasonable, “we want, blah, blah, blah…defence of our culture….”

Wait, what? 😁

Rod Liddle?!! Who thought he’d be a vote winner?

Seeing as how the Tories want to pretend we can go back to the 1950s and Reform the 1930s, I imagine nostalgia extends to domestic violence in some quarters too.

SDP – wut?!

The name of their party gave me some hope and the fact they are appealing (or trying to appeal) to the politically homeless almost sucked me in.

Until their advert was basically recycling tired tropes about the main parties and then banging on about culture and immigration as if that is all they need to fix.

Least they will split the reform vote where they stand.

I work on the theory that if a country/party/anything (delete as applicable) has the word ‘democrat/democratic’ in it then it most definitely won’t be.

I work on the theory that if a country/party/anything (delete as applicable) has the word ‘democrat/democratic’ in it then it most definitely won’t be.

Usually translates to “tyrannical authoritarianism” in the places where it applies to countries.

Democratic Republic of Congo
Democratic People’s Republic of Korea (North Korea’s official title)

RW political parties usually use it to mean “our version of democracy where we win”. See also the Donald Trump thread.

@ThePinkster You’ve clearly never seen a LD federal election pack.

@devash

And potentially anyone that didn’t get there postal vote. Just read this on the Beeb. It doesn’t go into any details but Google might throw it up.

If you haven’t received your postal vote you can still ask for an emergency proxy vote.

With only 72 hours to go, you can do it online and the proxy is someone who votes on your behalf.

@ThePinkster You’ve clearly never seen a LD federal election pack.

Oh yeah, forgot about them. The exception that proves the rule? 😉

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/voting-and-elections/ways-vote/emergency-proxy-vote

IDK if postal vote not arriving is considered an emergency, possibly expectation is that you should act before now on that point.

You name it, Labour will tax it.

— Rishi Sunak (@RishiSunak) July 1, 2024

first answer…. your wife?

Condoms?

@poopscoop I asked my council to do that (emergency proxy vote), this is what they said:

“Hi

Thank you for the update unfortunately the emergency proxy is not an option you have to run with the postal arrangement as all deadlines to amend, apply or cancel postal votes has now passed 5pm 19 June 2024

Regards”

So I said…

”

“Hi xxx,

The postal vote hasn’t turned up, despite registering way ahead of the June deadline. I am seeing on the news today that there are issues all over the country with postal votes not being printed and delivered on time.

I would therefore request to register for an emergency proxy vote, not regular proxy vote, as the conditions have been met to warrant this due to unforeseen circumstances outside of my control.

Otherwise my democratic right to vote in this election is being disenfranchised.

Best wishes,

Mr. Devash”

To which they said…

“Hi

I can confirm that there has been no issues with printing or releasing of postal votes for Redcar Council, your postal vote was released 20 June and is now in the hands of Royal Mail, you may want to take this up with your local delivery office as all statutory dates and procedures have been met from this end.

Regards”

p.s. Redcar Council is Tory AF so go figure.

I see the little fella has said tonight that he’ll stay on as Tory leader after they lose on Thursday.

You can only assume thats as there aren’t going to be enough Tory MP’s left to write to the 1922 committee with the required letters.

Everyone knows he’ll be in California before the weekend anyway

Regarding postal votes, the Guardian have just published this.

It’s quite  fitting that the mechanics of the election that will finish them has gone the same way as everything else they’ve touched for the last 14 years… a total ****ing shambles!

Thousands fear they will lose vote in UK election after postal ballot delays

Everyone knows he’ll be in California before the weekend anyway

He’ll be getting a little note from mogg

It was our hustings tonight. There weren’t any tickets left so I was unable to attend. Tbf I was only interested in asking the Reform candidate why his party and his campaign page are so full of hateful racist rhetoric. Luckily he’d posted his own phone number in his Facebook group, so I was able to phone him just as the hustings was starting so that I could ask him directly. Unfortunately he didn’t answer, hopefully he’d forgotten to put his phone on silent though.

You can only assume thats as there aren’t going to be enough Tory MP’s left to write to the 1922 committee with the required letters.

isn’t it based on a % of the total, so the smaller the party the less letters needed?

A Conservative friend told me that Britain is being ruled and ruined by “The Blob” and that that is things will not improve after the election. It sounded to me very much like a British variation of the “Deep State” conspiracy in the USA.