The problem with the “get it automated” suggestion is that many of the tube lines already are – the drivers don’t do any driving as such and would be better described as “cab based door operators”

If it’s such a good job why don’t you do it? Nothing stopping any of you. I’d personally not do it for £50k.

As for London being in chaos, it was only because people are lazy. Commuters, in general, don’t quite understand how easy it is to walk around the city. Hence the long ques for buses.

just5minutes – Member
The problem with the “get it automated” suggestion is that many of the tube lines already are – the drivers don’t do any driving as such and would be better described as “cab based door operators”

Ah, the first 9 words of your post showed so much promise. …and then you spoilt what could have been a thoughtful post by laying into the job descriptions of 3, no perhaps even 5% of the total workforce doing the striking.

I thought it was great to see so many people cycling everywhere yesterday .

They obviously have bikes, why anyone would want to use the hot sweaty tube when the weathers like this is beyond me !

The managers who have to deal with industrial relations are not paid to do that, it is an additional task over and above their day job (or part of their job as well as the day job) which is to manage the business and make it a success. They are not like the hugely overpaid union leaders who basically have nothing to do all day but deal with industrial relations issues. And anyway the useless managers (so that’ll be me then) don’t have the nuclear solution like the workers do so the b balance of power is massively out of whack.

Eh? Managers ARE employed to ensure that ‘relations’ are cordial, it’s a part of any Managers role.

Although I have (some) sympathy for the TfL Managers as they’ve also the political angle sat above them, something the private sector doesn’t suffer from.

I’m in union I think they sorted out some good stuff for us in my last job.

The unions are not interested in that – it’s their way or the highway, so not a negotiation.

What UTTER claptrap. In my personal experience, and in the experience of others posting above, it is more usually the employers that try to play hard ball. It is a sad fact that any strike represents a terminal failure of industrial relations and negotiations, and that should reflect equally badly on both parties. However, employers know that if a strike is forced public opinion will go against the strikers, not the employers, which leads to them being fairly happy to push it all the way. Plus, it’s not like they are personally losing th ability to put food in the mouths of their children, unlike the strikers.

I know this is STW and we don’t do this here, but can anyone point me to a summary of
a) what the tube workers want, and
b) what TfL offered

??

will – Member

Commuters, in general, don’t quite understand how easy it is to walk around the city.

A lot of londoners are funny like this, it’s like the city’s made up of a hundred little domed outposts and folks only travel between them underground. Mate of mine had a bit of a meltdown when the tube was stopped and we had to get from earl’s court to south kensington…

“Dear All my Commuter friends & anyone else who is interested in details of the strike action and dispute between TfL and their staff.
As you know I don’t usually comment on my work life as nobody really cares about other people’s jobs but due to some friends posting complete bullshit that they’ve copied and pasted from the media and haven’t got the common sense to ask someone who actually knows what they’re talking about now leaves me to enlighten you.
This dispute is not about money!
You can expect the usual barrage of total bollox in the media about “Greedy Overpaid Train Drivers” but this dispute has never been about money, It is about protecting work life balance and making sure that change in contracts are negotiated, not just imposed. And it’s not only Train drivers that voted for industrial action, it’s every grade of staff that works on the Underground network.
Protesters from the ASLEF and RMT unions stand at the locked gates of Brixton underground station during a tube strike in London on July 9, 2015. London’s roads, buses and overland trains struggled to cope in Thursday’s morning rush hour as commuters battled into work in the face of London Underground’s first strike shutdown since 2002.
Everyone I work with that I know has given the same message, we cannot continue to have more and more weekend and anti-social hours working.
I have never been opposed to Night Tube, but it has to be introduced in a way that is fair; that recognises that staff are human beings with lives and families as well as a job.
The job I signed up to do works 1 week of nights over a 52 week period, sometimes 2 weeks if need be but under new terms I would have to work a minimum of 14 weeks of nights. I have a family, I would like to see them at weekend, shift work already takes a lot of that away. TfL can offer as much as they want, I work to live, not live to work.
TfL could have spent the last three months genuinely discussing how to resolve this dispute. They chose not to. They have not changed their position in any way (until yesterday, keep reading I’ll get to that).
If London comes to a halt this week, the people who should be blamed are not those who work hard to keep it moving all year round. It is the directors, and those above them, who simply do not believe that their staff have a right to a reasonable quality of life.
The gates of Brixton underground station are locked with a chain and padlocks during a tube strike in London on July 9, 2015. London’s roads, buses and overland trains struggled to cope in Thursday’s morning rush hour as commuters battled into work in the face of London Underground’s first strike shutdown since 2002. AFP PHOTO / NIKLAS HALLE’NNIKLAS HALLE’N/AFP/Getty Images Brixton station locked today (Picture: Getty)
Yesterday’s events (Monday 6th July) at ACAS were really quite extraordinary. TfL having failed to change their offer for the last three months, now made a new proposal in the afternoon, but explained that it was “time bound” and would be “withdrawn if its conditions were not accepted by 18.30 this evening” by all four trade unions and industrial action was suspend.
TfL must have been aware that of course it would be impossible for Unions to comply with this ultimatum. Unions would need to properly consider the implications of the proposal and consult with Reps and their Executive Committees. Unions offered to return to ACAS at 12.00 today (Tuesday 7th July) to respond to the proposal but were told that it would be off the table after 18.30 today (Monday).
To be clear, Unions did not reject the offer. It has been withdrawn because the four Trade Unions were unable to comply with an utterly unrealistic “take it or leave it” ultimatum. It is pointless for Unions to express an opinion on an offer that no longer exists.
This now puts Unions in a position where there is no offer on pay, conditions or Night Tube on the table. It is difficult to believe that TfL are negotiating in good faith. Their offer seems to have been designed, not to resolve the dispute but to be used as a way to blame the Unions for what now seems to be inevitable industrial action.
Union members voted by a record breaking margin for industrial action.
I personally believe that TfL do not want to run a Night Tube service as it will cost them millions, the train and track are maintained to a minimum standard as it is but the Mayor of London announced it before it was ever discussed so they had to push ahead with it. I have a feeling TfL will now say it can’t run Night Tube due to the Unions but in reality they actually don’t want it.
Strike action will start from 21.30 on Wednesday 8th July.
Thanks for reading x”

Can this tube worker’s open letter convince you the strike isn’t all about the money?

It sounds to me like a unilateral contract change, primarily to amend working hours to include nights and weekends for no additional payments, and with no consideration for those who want to retain their existing working hours.

Out of interest, those of you who suggest that striking should be illegal, what alternative would you suggest? The power balance is weighted in the employers favour anyway by virtue of the fact that they are the ones dishing out wages. Unions already negotiate from a position of relative weakness. How would you prevent a return to the days of 80hour working weeks, terrible, unsafe working conditions, unpaid/no leave, being paid in tokens only redeemable in the company shop… These are things that the right to strike by organised unions have changed. Without the right to strike, we would still be pseudoslaves to our wealthy paymasters.

On our line we probably have someone on the track about once a week, often more, and I’ve lost count of the times they’ve escaped unhurt or with only minor injuries because of the drivers reactions.

A computer could react faster and not need breaks. Automation is the way forward long term.

After enduring transport chaos in London today resulting in the loss of a client meeting (and possibly some business for us), I’d personally sack the lot of them and give their jobs to someone who is grateful to have a job.

Nah, your bosses should sack you and your colleagues and replace you all with computers.

or replace you with someone who reads the news, knows there’s going to be transport problems and plans accordingly

Maybe you should shop around a bit; Most RRV Paramedics are earning more than you around my neck of the woods, and front line ‘Paramedic Managers’ are up there with the tube drivers after a few years in their role…

Which trust is that then and what skill set are the asking? As the standard AfC for Paramedic is band 5.

Also, what level of management are you talking about?

Edit: Wait I’ve found it, guess what WMAS pay band 5 too.

Which trust is that then and what skill set are the asking? As the standard AfC for Paramedic is band 5.
Also, what level of management are you talking about?

WMAS. Box fresh DCA paras Band 5,
All RRV paras Band 6 (capped at upper gateway) Have to agree to but not have completed an additional skills course of about 3 weeks duration.
Clinical Mentors Band 6,
any other specialism Para Band 6 (MERIT, Air Ops, HART, etc)
Area Support Officers = bottom rung managent, Bronze/Operational Commander (depending on if you’ve done JESIP 😉 ) are Band 7 plus the 25%.
Assistant Area Managers and Area Managers are 7 and 8a respectively, with lower %uplifts but they get a work lease car and on call allowances.

Oh and ‘legacy’ techs and Paras who were in Trust during the A4C dispute are all band 5 and 6 respectively, regardless of RRV or DCA. (But capped at upper gateway as was negotiated to end the dispute.

I’m a member of a union, but I joined to ensure that the terms and conditions that I signed up to are honoured, not so I can hold my company to ransom to increase those terms in my favour.

I’m a big beleiver that if I think I’m worth more than my company has agreed to pay me then I’m free to be able to find a job that pays me such…

If a tube driver/ticket collector thinks they are worth more than they are getting paid why don’t they leave and find another job? Its not as if they’ve spent years training to get where they are, unlike doctors, nurses etc etc.

All RRV paras Band 6 (capped at upper gateway) Have to agree to but not have completed an additional skills course of about 3 weeks duration.
Clinical Mentors Band 6,

So not standard Paras. I heard WMAS were doing something like that, I can see other trusts adopting it. I did a trial course 3 years ago which is now being rolled out but still voluntary. It’ll give fuel for our staff.

Area Support Officers = bottom rung managent, Bronze/Operational Commander (depending on if you’ve done JESIP ) are Band 7 plus the 25%.

Kind of my role. Cheers for that as they’ve agreed on a review once the role has been substantial. 😀

I’m a member of a union, but I joined to ensure that the terms and conditions that I signed up to are honoured, not so I can hold my company to ransom to increase those terms in my favour.

So, exactly what the tube staff are striking for them? Ironic post is ironic. it’s about CONDITIONS, not money.

I’m a member of a union, but I joined to ensure that the terms and conditions that I signed up to are honoured

Um…

The underground staff are on strike for exactly that reason…

Maybe try finding out facts before criticising people.

So not standard Paras.

Not very many ‘standard’ paras exist, though. Work on a car? Band 6. Mentor? Band 6. Work on a combined car truck rota? Band 6. Band 5 is more of a training wage, really.

I can see other trusts adopting it.

Good luck with that… (Chuckling)

Kind of my role. Cheers for that as they’ve agreed on a review once the role has been substantial.

Good luck with that too (genuinely)

I’m in a union, and have been on strike a couple of times. It’s only ever done as a last resort because of course you lose your pay.

R4 had some brilliant interviews last night.

the one that tickled me most was one chap complaining about the inconvenience:

“took me 40mins to walk to work, the world is coming to an end!”

(or words to that effect)

Good luck with that… (Chuckling)

As I say I know many trusts are looking adding extra training to help ease the pressure by using better pathways, also paying more helps retain staff and as you know that’s a big issue just now.

Good luck with that too (genuinely)

Cheers. Time will tell.

As I say I know many trusts are looking adding extra training to help ease the pressure by using better pathways, also paying more helps retain staff and as you know that’s a big issue just now.

True. It is definitely a bribe, rather than actually relating to any upskilling in our case. (My opinions are my own, do not represent the views of my employer, etc etc)

Hahaha!

A computer could react faster and not need breaks. Automation is the way forward long term.

Footflaps; the technology is there for driverless cars but I wouldn’t fancy riding amongst them and having to trust the proximity sensors. The drivers often spot someone’s body language that say’s that they’re about to jump and act accordingly.

You’re probably right that it’s coming in the future though, if we could fit PED’s (platform edge doors) everywhere it would happen soon. The problem is fitting them into the restricted space we have, same problem with air con.