hels – Member

Being a Protestant Atheist (my dad, not me) is a Scottish thing I think. It’s about not really beleiving in God as such, but reserving the right to be bigoted against Catholics. If you know any Rangers fans I am sure they will help explain it.

Sounds about right. A weird little sectarian side to the Scots

Organised religion is just heavy-handed totalitarian politics, god should never be spelt with a capital “g” and humanism can provide anything that any god can. Science will never provide all the answers, but all answers are there to be scientifically found. We, and everything, are, after all, just chemicals and chemical reactions, in glorious technicolour.

Science cannot prove or disprove anything that is not real. It can merely point to the probability of such being real.

In which case it’s arguable that the existence of the natural world around us etc points to the probability of a ‘creator’, God as an example … or you can keep on believing we all came about through a loads of convenient genetic mutations …

You won’t know if you can swim, if you dont jump in.

That’s up there with “suck on this wire and tell me if it’s live, will you?”

not really beleiving in God as such, but reserving the right to be bigoted against Catholics.

Heh, gotcha.

Cougar not saying God is a construct of our own minds but you have to get past all the crap in your mind before you can see whats really there. … have just been interested in “something else that might be God”

When I was younger and slowly coming to the realisation that I’d been systematically lied to by adults for most of my life, I considered myself agnostic for a while(*). One of the theories I came up with at the time was that this ‘god’ concept some people have is actually something inside of us and not supernatural at all. So when we pray, we’re actually feeding that something, boosting our own confidence (albeit by trickery) in the same way that a friend going “hey, you’re great, everything’s fine” would. You pray to god, you believe in it, so you immediately feel better about things because you now trust that ‘god will help’. You feel better, ergo prayer works, and the whole thing becomes self-sustaining.

In hindsight, I didn’t know it at the time but I think where I was going with that ultimately is that god is an abstraction of the placebo effect.

(* – I eventually stopped when I realised that now I was lying to me.)

A weird little sectarian side to the Scots

My grandad, a protestant shale miner from Winchboroug and a Hearts fan, would be turning in his grave now that I’m married to a Catholic Chinese girl.

It would be even worse if she supported Hibs.

In which case it’s arguable that the existence of the natural world around us etc points to the probability of a ‘creator’,

It’s arguable that the moon is made out of custard.

(though it’d make landing on it a trifle difficult)

(sorry)

You pray to god, you believe in it, so you immediately feel better about things because you now trust that ‘god will help’. You feel better, ergo prayer works, and the whole thing becomes self-sustaining.

Praying to God must be more than just making you “feel better”, otherwise anyone doing it regularly would soon give up because nothing actually changed through doing it … Christians pray to God because they believe it has the power to change things, and considering they continue doing it there must be something tangible that results, other than just “feeling better” about things for a while …

Cougar not saying God is a construct of our own minds but you have to get past all the crap in your mind before you can see what’s really there.

if you were talking about anything but religion you would probably be labelled mental (by everyone rather than just being called mental by STW atheists 😉 )
Yeah I do believe we have a lot of untapped potential inside us all and your mind can do some pretty awesome stuff. Saying all that is down to god working within you is selling the human race (and you) short I think.

It’s arguable that the moon is made out of custard.

Only if scientific investigation suggests it’s probable.

I don’t remember any of the Apollo moon landings mentioning anything about finding milk/cream/egg yolk, and possibly sugar or vanilla.

“I dare you?

Do your parents know you are on their computer using the internet? “

Yep and they are asking what forfeit Cougar is going to do for bottling it

😀

considering they continue doing it there must be something tangible that results

remind where I can see the tangible results? In the starving faces of African babies, or on the coffins of dead relatives, maybe?

Praying to God must be more than just making you “feel better”, otherwise anyone doing it regularly would soon give up because nothing actually changed through doing it … Christians pray to God because they believe it has the power to change things, and considering they continue doing it there must be something tangible that results, other than just “feeling better” about things for a while …

I sometimes wonder if the various Saints have just been conveniently organised for the purposes of praying. Saint Anthony for example is the saint of lost causes, so if you can’t find your keys, he’s your man. St Francis is the saint of animals, so if your pet is ill, a few words in his shell-like and he’ll sort the wee fella out.

Although each saint has a long list of things that they’re a dab had at, so maybe they cover all eventualities.

Hmmm prayer, thats something different again, from my experience.
My understanding is that thought (prayer??) transcends time and space. Not sure if i can explain that in words, but its something i have “experienced” and accept.
I would never presume that i could explain God, but as zimbo pointed out “you won’t know if you can swim if you dont jump in”

Yep and they are asking what forfeit Cougar is going to do for bottling it

Yeah Cougar, you’re big wuss for not throwing yourself unthinkingly into spurious metaphysical nonsense!

just like a god for each thing, it’s a load of made up waffle.

As with most things, I would want some actual factual evidence of a second coming, or in fact the first coming.

The stock arguement is “prove to me god doesn’t exist”.

quote]but as zimbo pointed out “you won’t know if you can swim if you dont jump in[[/quote]

That wasn’t me! I warned him of drowning in the perilous waters of blind faith!

I think, worldwide, the level of ignorance and lack of education wouldn’t preclude the possibility that a second coming could be believed by many.

Even here in the UK, a supposedly educated and enlightened country, we can’t even celebrate a new millennium on the correct year (the new millennium started 1st Jan 2001…not 1st Jan 2000…nothing do with with using alternative calenders as some erroneously believe, just simple numeracy).

Or check these forum pages where people doubt the necessity of leaving some bearing slack in loose ball QR hubs so that the QR will take up the remaining slack. Something that can be tested by any loose ball QR hub owner in seconds, yet still they argue.

You see, we can prove that regardless of concrete evidence against any belief, there are some who steadfastly oppose any information that contradicts what they WANT to believe. That part of human nature hasn’t ever changed for a great many.

Yeah Cougar, you’re big wuss for not throwing yourself unthinkingly into spurious metaphysical nonsense!

I never asked for unthinkingly, quite the opposite in fact. And thanks for making my point if indeed it’s “spurious metaphysical nonsense”…. Cougar has nothing to fear, has he?

In which case it’s arguable that the existence of the natural world around us etc points to the probability of a ‘creator’, God as an example … or you can keep on believing we all came about through a loads of convenient genetic mutations …

Arguable? Not really. There is not one iota of peer reviewed court admissible evidence to support any creator theory. However, genetic mutations and evolution have been proven countless times.

Praying to God must be more than just making you “feel better”, otherwise anyone doing it regularly would soon give up because nothing actually changed through doing it…

I think you may have only read half of my post and skipped the part where I explained that.

Only if scientific investigation suggests it’s probable.

Now we’re getting somewhere. Does scientific investigation suggest that “the existence of the natural world around us etc points to the probability of a ‘creator’,” as per your original statement? If it doesn’t then by your argument here we can rule it out; if it does then you’re in line for a Nobel prize cos no-one else has managed it in two thousand years.

they are asking what forfeit Cougar is going to do for bottling it

I’m not “bottling it,” I just don’t want to. You’re suggesting that the only reason I’m not taking you up on it is fear; let me assure you, fear is fairly low on my list of reasons, I’ve had scarier bowel movements.

If I ‘dared’ you to go and sit in a damp cave for two hours every week for six months eating mud, with the only incentive being ‘you never know what might happen’, would you do it? If not, would you describe yourself as bottling a dare? Don’t be silly.

I think I will end my contibution to this thread with a link to one of my favourite websites.

It’s the Creationists Museum in Kentucky.

http://creationmuseum.org/

They have great exhibitions explaining how fossils were all planted by God, and displays showing how dinosaurs mixed with the cavemen (they must have, sillies, the world was created in 400BC). If you are lucky, you will catch one of the talks from Dr (have to wonder, of what ?) Morton entitled “Three Ways to Make an Apeman” which explains the three main ways anthropologists faked the evidence for evolution.

It’s a real place kiddies, just like Dollywood. Terrifying…

Religion is just a crutch to support weak minded people who need to have a belief that they have a some sort of guardian looking over them. They need to question there misguided belief brainwashed into them by a system struggling to survive in this day and age.

Dude dude…. Sorry, Im pulling your chain little… just trying to be lighthearted …”I dare you” was, I thought, clearly the voice of a school boy (well done Tucker, to the top of the class you go) and “bottling it” was in the same vein.

There are quite a few aesthesis (some of them rather nasty)on here as well as some uncompromising religious people…. I hope I’ve come across, or would like to, much like MrBarnsleymatch… Some one of faith whose life is better for it and is not worried about saying that.

Just to say Cougar I have enjoyed your posts on this thread.

I would love to partake but the requirement to “make a living” rules that out.

That is all.

I’m fascinated by why Cougar seeks to start a discussion on religion when it is very clear he has made up his mind and will not be convinced otherwise.

But as has been pointed out, religion does seem to obsess the Cougar.

Why does it obsess you Cougar? Because you are among the enlightened and you are angry why people can subscribe to incorrect beliefs? But what business is that of yours to begin with?

Are you our true liberator?

Is this the first coming of the Cougar?

Religion is just a crutch to support weak minded people who need to have a belief that they have a some sort of guardian looking over them. They need to question there misguided belief brainwashed into them by a system struggling to survive in this day and age

Why don’t you just shorten that to: ‘anyone who doesn’t believe what I believe is an idiot’ 🙄

But what business is that of yours to begin with?

I think it is the concern of all tax payers in the UK, dont you. It should also be the concern of every other paid up member of the human race to strive to debunk such harmful myths and vested interests.
The myths that to this day restrict social and medical advances across the globe as well as the restriction of scientific reasoning and our childrens education.

I did have some time after all!

Oh, great! Another day, another tedious tail-chasing STW will eat itself thread on religion that goes around and around and around like all the others before it.

“Religion is just a crutch to support weak minded people who need to have a belief that they have a some sort of guardian looking over them. They need to question there misguided belief brainwashed into them by a system struggling to survive in this day and age. “

Yep thats it… well done, you win.

Why don’t you just shorten that to: ‘anyone who doesn’t believe what I believe is an idiot’

I’ll shorten it to ‘anyone who believes in religion is an idiot’. 8)

Anyway i know god is real cause im a Chelsea supporter, and i did a lot of praying last night.

I’m fascinated by why Cougar seeks to start a discussion on religion

Cougar didn’t, Cougar asked a reasonable question about whether we’d believe it if a “second coming” happened. That’s a philosphical/societal question that can be asked without adherence to any belief system.

Hey CFH

I completely agree with you and we’ve even got the cherry on the cake

Your post stating tail chasing blah blah…. well done.

But what business is that of yours to begin with?
I think it is the concern of all tax payers in the UK, dont you.

I would argue conversely that without Christianity, and the civic culture it supported in this country for many hundreds of years, there would not have been a UK in the first place, let alone economic prosperity, religious and political liberty, and the opportunity (not always realised) to discuss whether God exists in the first place.

Browsing this thread only brings home to me that the greatest threat to liberty and tolerance as we understand it (and it is understood in Christian terms) is the closed minded, fashionable and currently unverifiable Atheism espoused by so many of the contributors who have happened to read a book by Christopher Hitchens or Richard Dawkins, and found that a lack of divine justice fits very well with their middle-aged angst.

Dobbo… watch out fella… MrBmatch will be along shortly to have a word in your shell like.

Cougar asked a reasonable question about whether we’d believe it if a “second coming” happened. That’s a philosphical/societal question that can be asked without adherence to any belief system.

I think it is primarily a religious question, as it presupposes the reality of a Second Coming, which Cougar has strenuously argued in other threads is an Impossiblity.

It is a meaningless question unless the inquirer is willing to accept the possibility of a Second Coming. Otherwise it is the work of an Agitator with some vapours to let off.

Anyway i know God Satan is real cause im a Chelsea supporter, and I Did a lot of praying sacrificed a virgin last night

😀

Oh, great! Another day, another tedious tail-chasing STW will eat itself thread on religion that goes around and around and around like all the others before it.

Religions the only thing to argue about where neither side can actually prove anything, on and on it goes..when it ends nobody knows…..

ooh – looks like badnwez is the one with the big chip on his shoulder! Anti-atheist anger always makes me laugh, but “unverifiable atheism”, that’s comedy gold.