The Annual Running thread - beginners/ultras/whatever

The question is do I now start throwing interval training in once a week and if so, any good suggestions for a drill?

Definitely do some interval training, the rewards are massive compared to just going out for a run. There are loads of drills out there, but they're all pretty similar: do a warm up, then run hard / gentle trot "n" times, then cool down. The main difference is whether the hard/trot bit is time or distance based, although the end result will be similar.

So given the above an easy starting point would be something like 10-15 min warm up, then 10x(1 min hard / 1 min walk), then 10 min cool down. Your last interval should be of a similar speed to the first, so don't go all out at the beginning! Your warm up could be a gentle jog for the first 10 minutes, then mix in a few short sprints to get the legs going before you start the main part of the workout. If you get to the eighth interval and you're shattered cut the session short.

I’ve had a shite summer. 6-8 weeks out due to sciatica. ☹️ Since end July, only managed a bit of running but nothing major. Decided I’d sort my 5k time down to something respectable. Tried 12 x 400m intervals with 30s recovery between. That was a mistake. 😂

Sorry to hear that DD. Sciatica is a proper bitch. Heal soon!

I've heard that about Eastville, too - looks a nice spot.

Thanks Mogrim. Your suggestion seems easier to follow than some I've seen. To fit around work and family, I often end up going out in the dark, so I think I need to set some alerts on the old Garmin watch. Time rather than distance seems easier. Deep tissue massage tonight though. Niiice.

I cant help thinking that whoever developed that Parkrun comparison tool would have spent their time more wisely training. FFS

Lots of stretching and a fast walk if I were you. Maybe a swim instead?

A swim is a great idea.

Thanks for sharing that link - someone has gone to a lot of effort with that!

Time rather than distance seems easier

Depends where you're running, distance isn't that hard either.  If (for example) you have a nice straight in your local park: you can run the straight hard then jog back to the start. Hill repeats hurt but are also often distance based - run up the hill, jog back down. Repeat 🙂  If it's a longer hill then do it time based - run up it for a minute, jog back.

I'm using minutes here as the interval length as they're easy to follow, not because that's The Law - you could do 2 min on / 1 min off, or 3000m intervals, or whatever.

I'll save the hill repeats for a few weeks time I think. I only thought time rather than distance as it's probably easier to set up on my Garmin watch. The plan is to do one interval session a week, a couple of 5ks and a long slow run of around 12k and see how I am in a month.

When you are running intervals dont worry too much about the distance and the time you take. As long as you test yourself over the same route each time you will measure improvement. Your recoveries should be stricter thats where the benefit comes form.

I like an interval but they are so easy to over complicate. Mine tend to be either "run up that hill, jog back, repeat 10 times" or "run to that tree, job a bit, run to that next tree, repeat". I try to do it so I'm doing the intervals for about 20 minutes with a 5 minute warm up/down at each end. I'm sure I could be more structured but I have to make it easy for myself or I get bogged down in detail. If you have a local football pitch they can be good to use, sprint 2 sides, jog 2 sides, repeat.

The advantage with distance based intervals is that you find yourself running faster to get them over with. 😀

I like structure to training (not for any good reason) so happy to program an interval sesh into the watch and take it from there. Also find it easier to see how much shitter I’m doing over time. 😭

So apparently there's a few interval apps for Garmin Vivactives including one you can programme and set to vibrate so that looks the ticket. Will let you know how I get on.

Just some anecdotal nonsense, that may or may not be of interest.

I started properly running a couple of years ago, joining the local club.  I was doing ok, getting up to doing some tough off road 1/2 marathons in reasonable times.  I then tried to get quicker by doing track work and got injured. Basically plantar fasciitis and also screwing the tendons in my ankle.

Now building back up and my observations are.  Ankle strengthening exercises really help (cyclist don't have strong ankles!)

I now wear a heart rate monitor and do at least 1 slow run per week of apporox 10 miles, never above mid point of zone 3.  This allows me to concentrate on just letting my legs run, rather than them being fatigued all the time.  I now also do at least 1 run per week where I try and raise my hr to Zone 5 in an interval type run, sometimes on the hill section, others on flat. I actually find this harder than I thought I would (legs give up before heart)

I have had loads of physio rehab input and the consensus was do not try and modify running technique to run on the front of the foot. Apparently I am naturally a heal/mid foot striker.  Trying to modify this in 40's does more harm than good apparently.

I am now starting to run quicker than I have before.

The biggest improvement has definitely come from running slower though 🙂

I did the causeway coast half marathon on the 23rd sept, I saw plenty of people from england, scotland etc.

The scenery was outstanding and well worth travelling over for if any of you are interested for next year, they have all distances catered for and it is very well organised, bus transfers etc.

It is a trail running race on mostly singletrack, so my time was well off what I could manage on road, as an experience though it was top notch.

I'll often incorporate intervals into my 12 mile commute.  Started with 1 minute hard, 2 minutes easy, repeat 15 times, and that seemed to be a good session.  However, switching the hard and easy intervals makes it a total killer, and I don't think I've managed more than 12 repeats 😀  Certainly seems to have had an effect though, I've certainly taken my running up a notch with a combination of volume and speed.

If you want to get the most out of your training then the more disciplined and structured you are, the greater the transformation will be.

Too much structure is boring and running should be fun. @Lunge what you are doing IS "intervals" and you would probably get marginally more benefit from paying attention to detail. but wheres the laughs in that, plus you are probably getting 85% of the benefit anyway.

Now Mo Farah on the other hand, every detail is paramount when you are at that level.

The biggest improvement has definitely come from running slower though

Not really. If you are unfit then running slowly will see a disproportionate improvement in fitness as you come from a low base. As your speed and fitness increase the improvements will level out until (in a perfect world) your training effort meets your ability. At that level even your hardest sessions are adding little and really only maintaining your high level of fitness.

Maybe so surfer but coming from a non-rumning background I've improved gradually over a number of years, mostly through running steadily (I don't like to call it slow but it's a very comfortable pace). And I hope and expect to continue to set PBs into my 50s.

Hmmm may have found a new favourite thing for winter.

Night hill running is great fun , no prep and even less clean up.

7.2km in the rain tonight round up and back down meikle tap/hill of fare.

What a hoot.

Need a new headtorch my MK1 gamma with all its zip ties and lackk of light was well out its depth

My non trail shoes were out their depth.

So much fun. No records set but good fun.

Too much structure is boring and running should be fun. @Lunge what you are doing IS “intervals” and you would probably get marginally more benefit from paying attention to detail. but wheres the laughs in that, plus you are probably getting 85% of the benefit anyway.

Now Mo Farah on the other hand, every detail is paramount when you are at that level.

This is 100% true. I know full well that a properly structured and thought out set would give me a few more percentage points. However, I also know I'd spend so long being anal and planned then that I'd never end up actually doing them. A more relaxed approach definitely works for me.

So, the 10k training plan starts today!

Like DD, I'm a fan of the 'Running for Weight Loss' app and today I'm going to start the 10k plan. To start with I'll actually be running shorter distances than I have been recently but it'll be interspersed with walking so I guess it's just getting me used to being on my feet for longer. That's cool - I really don't want to get injured!

Bring it on!

This time last year I did the Ron Hill challenge 'run every day in October' - gutted not to be doing it this year but because I can now run a lot further than 12 months ago I think I'd do myself some damage 🙂

This is 100% true. I know full well that a properly structured and thought out set would give me a few more percentage points. However, I also know I’d spend so long being anal and planned then that I’d never end up actually doing them.

I think it also depends a bit on what you're aiming for and where you are - the first time I signed up for a marathon I downloaded a plan and followed it to the letter, and I'm glad I did. Some of the questions on here are similar to where I was back then - Should I do intervals? When should I do a tempo run? - and I think these people would greatly benefit from following a plan as it takes the guesswork out of it. Once you've got more experience by all means ditch the plan, but I think 3 months of dedication now would reap a lot of rewards in the future.

That's it for me this season. No more events after last week and planning to not run at all for most of October. Having been fairly hard at it since April it's time to recharge a bit. Mmmmmm, beer...

Back on it in November though.

Who else is starting to think of next year's goals? Has to be sub 4 at Jura for me.

Trail Rat; depending on where you living are these days ( used to be near Auchenblae I think?) there are piles of wee gems near Tarfside, Mount Battock, loop round the falls past Loch Lee.

I'm aiming for a 2:45 marathon next spring (which would be a 4 min PB, could be achievable if everything goes perfectly). Got a few 5, 10ks and halves lined up over the winter as benchmarks/training races. Just starting to get back into full running training for the winter basically with the aim of getting into decent shape for the ribble 10 at the end of Dec.

Good luck Captain. The trick will be staying injury and illness free over the winter but also getting plenty of miles in. I would recommend running regular xc races as well.

Who else is starting to think of next year’s goals?

What?? the season is just starting! If you have aspirations for next year then I would recommend you run the xc season.

thecaptain, that is a target indeed! best of luck sir.

Best of luck thecaptain. I think my next aim is to get back to a reasonably swift half-m - precious pb is a shade under 1.40 so I’d like to get back to that. Also, let’s see how close to a 20m 5k I can get.

Like DD, I’m a fan of the ‘Running for Weight Loss’ app and today I’m going to start the 10k plan. To start with I’ll actually be running shorter distances than I have been recently but it’ll be interspersed with walking so I guess it’s just getting me used to being on my feet for longer. That’s cool – I really don’t want to get injured!

I've stopped using that now wallop. It did the job - with a bit of dietary work and the RfWL app, I dropped around 8-9kg from Jan to the Summer - although 1.5 of those has popped back on due to a sciatica and beer fuelled summer. Now I just use online resources to work our interesting interval programmes and just use my watch to do them. One thing to watch out for with the RfWL app is when it tells you to sprint 100% - although I think that’s quite a way into their “programme”. You might want to do a bit of dynamic stretching after your warm-up if there are sprints (worth a quick read-up on these). Sprints can be pretty taxing on the legs and lower back if you’re not used to them. In general though, I found the RfWL app useful - helped with weight loss and kept running interesting, but mostly got me to love running again after a few years of only sporadic activity.

No sprints in the 10k programme, thankfully! I’m not really using the whole app content, just the running progression - I think it keeps me going when I might otherwise stop and walk. 😄

Have you got a particular HM in sight?

Good luck, the captain!

let’s see how close to a 20m 5k I can get.

I'll race you to it Darcy lad! currently at 21.39 on a fairly hilly parkrun course, but I had a mole at the counter from about a mile into it! I'll certainly get below 21 at next attempt, it's just a matter then of seeing how close I can get.

Dalbeattie Hardrock on sunday - 10 miles on the fire roads of 7 stanes route, then Jedburgh half with the good lady at end of the month.

Am at 21.39 on Ashton Court which is 2.5up and 2.5down (I’m not sure I mentioned how much of a bastard the up is before, have I? No! 😬) and 21.07 at Arrow Valley - 2 laps around a lake so flattish. Might go and give Eastville in Bristol a go tomoz - it’s pretty flat I think. Just need to go easy on the FN Beers. It won’t be a pb for sure but haven’t done one in a while.

let’s see how close to a 20m 5k I can get.

This is my winter goal too, 20:21 is PB so at Dudley Parkrun which is pan flat bar an absolute sod of a hill in the middle. Sub-20 must be on!

I'm doing Abingdon marathon on 21st, aiming for 3:40 once that is out the way I will also be aiming for a sub 20 5k.  Last one in August was 21:14.   Not been sub 20 since 2014.

No park run this week for me. I think I'm gonna aim for one a amonth or there abouts.

Riding/pushing up beinn a bhiurd instead.

Stuart I'm out culter way now. Auchenblae was an awesome location for all things outdoor and although I rarely go to the office so can be based a good bit away the wife teaches in the city now rather than at mearns and we value the time to do stuff and not being car reliant over the cheaper houses and a 2hr commute in winter.

What?? the season is just starting! If you have aspirations for next year then I would recommend you run the xc season.

The hill running season is definitely coming to an end up here and my head is ready for a break. I know I should run some XC races but I can never be bothered. When winter comes I tend to go back to my first love, winter climbing.

It's new shoe day. I bloody love new shoe day!.

Asics Roadhawk FF, again, like flying slippers, I love em!.

York marathon a week on Sunday.

Ran it last year (first road marathon) with an aim of 3:20. Went to pot at mile 18 and finished in 3:40 so I’m having another go.

Didn’t do enough training so I’ve been on a 16 week plan this time around which I’ve mainly stuck to. I’ve had several 53 mile weeks with the rest in the 40’s.

8 miles planned tomorrow and 4 Sunday then a gentle week to keep ticking over.

Consistent Marathon training has really brought my times down. Ran 18:40 for 5k and ran a half marathon 4 weeks ago aiming for sub 90 ... 1:30:07 🙈 a big PB of 3 minutes so missed the sub90 but still a good run I was pleased with.

any tips for my final week?

Dalbeattie hardrock 10 miler tomorrow, weather looks 'interesting'..... 🤣

Rest up stox, you can't do any good in the last week but you can certainly do harm! I usually do something like 2x2k at marathon pace a few days out just to get s feel for it on fresh legs.

Today I learned that 3 hours is not enough to fully digest a massive Mexican meal, and I had to stop halfway round my long run to throw up 😆

Still, another 24K done so it was worth it.

Hope everybody’s had a productive weekend. Didn’t manage to get a pr in but took my boy, 5¾ for his first junior parkrun this morning at Eastville in Bristol. He loved it. Although he flagged a bit around 1.5k, and we had to slow jog for a bit, he mustered up enough for a sprint for the last hundred m or so when he heard some footsteps trundling behind to overtake. 😀

Brilliant Darcy,  it's great running with the kids. I hardly ever get the chance to have a go at a time at PR as my 11 year old daughter is usually with me. I try not to moan at her to go quicker, as I'm really just happy she's doing it. Most of her friends couldn't walk 5k never mind run it!.

Yeah beautiful day down this way.. another hack around QECP, back on my road to fitness.

Dalbeattie hardrock is a tough gig, undulating fire roads for 6 miles, great, 4 miles of rooty rollercoaster, hmmm bit tougher!

Need to try run and bike next year, done stellar performances, run course record gone at 56 odd mins, impressive stuff. Some boys on bikes were close to the hour for the lap too blimey.

1.22 for me, pretty pleased as I've never seen the course, so pacing was tough.

Nice work NoFearInTheBridge. 👍

See two lads have died doing the Cardiff half. No cause of death yet. I've heard in the past that with all the advertising to keep well hydrated people actually take on board too much and dilute the electrolytes to a dangerous level. Just something to be aware of that taking on too much water is just as bad as not having enough.

Anybody watching the adventure show? The Lairig Ghru hill race is featured, organised and containing several interviews with rugbydick (Andy)  from this thread  Oh; and a fat lad in a pink vest at the back in the start scenes 😳

Just something to be aware of that taking on too much water is just as bad as not having enough.

Hyponatremia - odd that it could cause a death in a half marathon in October, though.

No cause of death yet for the two lads. The drinking too much was just something I had heard of in other races.

Just watched the AS larig ghru hill run

Those Battle kids (locals) are tough as nailed propper meillers (that's a good term) turned him self inside out.

Heart attacks at finish line according to web site. Undiagnosed heart problems are not unheard of. Very sad but the vast majority of runners gain substantial benefits. Or so I'm lead to believe. Knowing two exercise-induced heart attack victims (one of which died) does give me a little pause for thought....