The Annual Running thread – beginners/ultras/whatever

Perfect, thanks Lunge. Yep, an all round trainer. Lots to go at there at some much more reasonable prices. Hard to look past the Pumas at those prices.

Just got back from running the Edale Skyline route today. Started running properly again in January, built up slowly and have loved it. A very steady 4h 54m, mainly as I kept stopping to pick up litter!

Lovely day for it and I may go back in the summer to try and get a bit closer to 4 hours dead.

A good day at Manchester, 2:52 and change is just a minute or two slower than my best case and the course measured slightly longer than usual so I’m happy with my performance and really enjoyed the run.

Good work thecaptain that’s a hell of a time!

Anyone recommend a physio in Stockport area or nearby? Preferably with a running background but not essential. Thanks

@thecaptain, that’s super fast, awesome work.

@thecaptain – Well done!

I completed my first marathon in Manchester. The last 10k was the real challenge and it was like running through a warzone with the amount of injured runners pulling-up. I had to stop running at 40k and have a chat with myself. I managed 2:59 in the end but loved the whole experience.

A friend of mine said the key is to take 3 paracetamol at the 20 mile mark. Is this a thing? is it safe?

@MrSheen – Nick Syrett is your man. Fell runner and the go-to physio for all of Chorlton Runners. Was spot on the few times I used him when living there. Not a one for dragging you back for loads of follow ups. Tells you what’s wrong and how to sort it. Has a practice in Chorlton called KNS with his wife.

Well done yourself @ChuckMorris, sub 3 in your first attempt is a great result.

I’ve heard a little bit about painkillers, paracetamol is also reckoned to reduce overheating (not a huge issue at Mancs this time, or any time really) but there’s also a possible risk of stomach and/or kidney effects and I’ve never tried it myself.

Thanks @dashed

A friend of mine said the key is to take 3 paracetamol at the 20 mile mark. Is this a thing? is it safe?

I’ve never heard of this as a general strategy. Not taking pain killers is the usual advice although it’s more specifically ibuprofen that’s warned against. What’s your pals experience in this?

Painkillers- please avoid, in general. I’ve got to keep this really brief as I’m due in a meeting shortly but here are the key points.
Firstly, NSAIDs (Ibuprofen, diclofenac, naproxen etc..) can be very harmful indeed over distances, causing or worsening rhabdomyolysis, which can lead to kidney failure and ultimately death. Acute rhabdo is a medical emergency and I see it in runners several times each year. These products make it much worse than it needs to be.
Just to be clear, this is a specialist field of mine and I have instituted a ban on these drugs in Scottish ultra marathons. if caught in unauthorised possession, it’s an automatic DQ.

Paracetamol is another creature altogether. There are no specific contras against taking this in running, however, a dose of 3x500mg is above the recommended and could in theory cause harm to an already compromised liver. The lowest known fatal dose of paracetamol that I’ve heard confirmed was 12 in a 24hr period. So if you are already working with a stressed liver, it could in theory be harmful.
The second side to this coin is, if you are in so much pain that you genuinely need these to finish, should you still be running in this race? Pain is a sign of damage & harm, so think about it carefully. Personally, I used 2x500mg to help me finish my West highland Way race. That was very much a one off though and I’ve not used them on any other run.

amazing work on the manchester runs, rapid times, feels like spring has arrived at last.

I went over to to run the Rotterdam marathon at the weekend, as my second ever after a disastrous Frankfurt attempt last October where mainly due to a lack of appreciation of what I was about to endure and crazy temperatures I pulled out at round km 35. I had trained reasonably well for it but apparently not!

Started the training for Frankfurt weighing around 112kgs (covid and being unable to control my calorie intake – fat b’stard) 49 and had ran a few 10ks before – wanted to run a marathon before I was 50. Managed to get down to 105kgs for Rotterdam and more training but was still bricking myself whether I would be able to finish. There were a few close calls where I nearly jacked it again but managed to keep the demons under control. Was hoping for a sub 4 hour finish, 1:57 at half way was looking close, then got half way through the back half and was getting tough, stopped looking at teh overall time and just wanted to complete it. put the watch back onto time at km 41 and was still under 4, managed to find some boosters and crossed 3:59:47 close but the first number was a 3 so was a win for me 🙂 didnt get one in the bag before 50 but pretty close

crossed the line stepped to the side, stood for no more than 5 seconds before starting to move again and left hip had totally sized, reckon it took me over 30 minutes to exit the finish area

Rotterdam was an amazing event, if you like loads of noise and spectators its rammed pretty much for the entire course and pretty much a city centre-ish based course. Its great to see the city buy into the event in such a way. The winner stays back to bring the last runner over the line and give them their medal – pretty cool. course gets a little tight with runners at around km 17 – 22 and the water stations were carnage but apart from that no complaints.

Id thoroughly recommend it as an event, easy to get to and nice chilled city to hang around before and after.

Going back to get my soul from where I left it on the Frankfurt course this October, would like to be able to finish around 3:50. Planning to shed more timber, at least down to 98kgs, hoping that will have a benefit.

not going to say Im hooked but definitely going to try for a few more – maybe Copenhagen or Hamburg 2024 – possibly the ring of steal this year for a bit of variety – anybody done these?

Has anyone paid for a training plan in the past and was it any good?
I have a hankering to go after a fast marathon next year and think to get the time I want I need a proper programme to work to. I’ve got a pretty good idea of what I need to do, but some guidance may be worth taking.

@turin top work. As a heavy bloke myself I feel your pain. Once you’re below 100kg that 3.50 is on!

@lunge a mate uses Ollie Lockley and has nothing but good things to say. Ollie was third in Manchester at the weekend so certainly has the running calibre!

With regards to the paracetamol question, another reason to avoid taking it during an event is because it messes with the bodies ability to regulate your temperature correctly, it’s why we take it for fevers, this is drummed into us firefighters every time we do hot training and we have to inform the instructors if we have taken any so that we can be monitored more closely.

@spin – He’s an experienced runner and said it helps him for a fast finish. His split chart would back that up.

Blue is his and orange is the average.

@highlandman – thanks for the info! I’d like to protect my liver at all costs. 🙂

@turin – awesome, well done! Rotterdam sounds amazing. I assume it will be one of the flattest courses as well. Love the idea of the winner bringing the last runner over the line. Rotterdam is getting added to the list.

@chuck it was pretty flat, big chunks actually around 5m below sea level….. think my strava showed 78m of ascent and Im sure its held world records before. Most of the inclination is on the underpasses so not a long drag to get over them.

Worth noting that there are no gels provided on the course – know a lot of people carry their own, but not everybody. Water/iso drinks every 5km, expo was decent as well and only 20 odd minutes on a direct train from Schipol or eurostar

@lunge I have been with yelling performance for the past 6 months both team GB/multiple Olympian athletes and have had a program with Liz for 6 months or so. Works for me.

He’s an experienced runner and said it helps him for a fast finish. His split chart would back that up.

The chart would back up that he’s a fast finisher, not that the paracetamol does anything!

Thanks for filling in the details @highlandman, that tallies with what I’d read.

Best (only) way to achieve such a fast finish is to run well within yourself over the first three quarters! Anyone speeding up that much just wasn’t trying before then.

So, my Leeds marathon training hasn’t gone to plan. Just coming off the back of a nasty chest infection so haven’t been able to do much apart from a couple of light effort bike rides in the last couple of weeks. Completely reassessed my ‘target’ from 4hrs 30 to just finish the f***ing hilly b**tard

Cragg Challenge 10K. Usually do the 10 mile but had to enter at the last minute and the 10K was the only one with space.

The course is simple – 5km up the hill, turn around, 5km back down.

Didn’t feel brilliant at the start having ridden the day before and slept badly after too much food. Stuck with a group of 2 who started fast, then one of them dropped back and we traded places for the lead the rest of the way.

I was planning to run to a Stryd power target but the two ahead were working as quite a good windbreak going up the hill so I just followed them.

My lungs were OK but started to get a stitch in the last 1500m, so was 5 seconds behind the winner. He really went for it though and was being tended to by St John’s, while I sauntered off for flapjack. His was definitely a well deserved win. Wishing I’d tried a bit harder now as I didn’t put any effort in for the sprint at the end.

Overall 2nd in 39.40, according to Strava. The return 5K was in 17:02, and I shall not be admitting that it was entirely downhill.

The atmosphere and closed road is great and it’s chip timed. Done it a few times, including bike and run.

2 weeks off running with a cold feels like it’s set back my training by about 3 months – I was feeling pretty happy about July’s Serpent Trail 50 but now it’s like I’ve forgotten how to actually run.

Given I only started training at the start of the year this isn’t reassuring.

I’ll have to give a marathon a go soon as I’ve never done one.

However, I just did the ‘marathon with mountains’ aka 3 peaks fell race on Saturday for the first time and really enjoyed it surprisingly as I thought it would be a bit much

Time was 4:50 but really the latter half of the race was ruined with really bad cramps. I was really hampered on the descent from Ingleborough as I felt I couldn’t extend my legs otherwise they’d be seized with cramp

I really need to work on cramp prevention for my next race . I think it was more lack of regular stretching rather than hydration issues

I’ll be back next year!

Realised I’ve been rather quiet on here recently, thought some might be interested to hear how London went:
<p style=”font-weight: 400;”>London marathon has been a major annual focus for several years, and despite concentrating more on ultra-marathons, I still managed a personal best in 2021.  This year has been somewhat different having picked up some injuries in August last year which I haven’t yet sorted.  Comparing my usual training block to a marathon I would run about 2,200 miles, this year has been less than 600 in the same time period, without any focus on speed or long runs.  As such I had slightly different goals for the race:</p>
<p style=”font-weight: 400;”>A goal – sub 2:40 to qualify for the championship start again</p>
<p style=”font-weight: 400;”>B goal – sub 2:50ish to get good for age again</p>
<p style=”font-weight: 400;”>C goal – finish</p>
<p style=”font-weight: 400;”>D goal – not injure myself further</p>
<p style=”font-weight: 400;”>Some goals were potentially mutually exclusive, I didn’t want to put myself out of action for a long time even if A was achievable etc.</p>
<p style=”font-weight: 400;”>So, with very little training, and a sore left glute, I started at slightly lively 2:35 pace, and after about 5km started to drift slowly backwards through the pack, feeling somewhat uncomfortable but not in any significant pain.  I had pre-arranged Max to hand me some nutrition at 3 key points along the course, which was a great help, knowing exactly what I was getting and where.  Lots of vocal support from friends and clubmates on the roadside, but I did manage to fail to spot Natalie and the kids on Tower Bridge.  Halfway split of 1:18 was pretty much perfect, however I expected everything to go wrong from 30km.  This is where lack of training reared its head in October where I had similarly poor preparation and I missed my A goal that day by a frustrating 4 seconds…. Remarkably I was feeling pretty good and fairly confident, and started to drift forwards through runners with the A goal looking increasingly sure.  With some time in hand I didn’t need to push particularly hard to the finish, knowing that I could slow significantly without missing the goal, and enjoyed the last ¼ to come home in 2:38.</p>
<p style=”font-weight: 400;”>Always a spectacular day out, regardless of the weather – while the drizzle was probably a blessing for most of the runners, it didn’t appear to have dampened the spirits of those supporting.</p>
<p style=”font-weight: 400;”>Hopefully I’ll be back next year in full fitness with some slightly more ambitious goals.  I expect I’ll be the youngest in the V45 category, the race falling 2 days after my birthday, so hopefully I’ll do better than 83^rd in my age group!</p>

Didn’t realise you were such a spring chicken turboferret, that’s a great effort off limited training. I’m definitely now at the stage of hoping to minimise losses, I’ll be 55 next time and won’t see the short side of 2:50 again though should have a few more sub-3s in me if I stay injury-free.

Great effort @turboferret on virtually no training, that is mightily impressive. Looks like I may well see you in the Champs start next year, I managed a PB this year and got a top 10 in the V45s with a sub 2:35. I’m over the moon with this given I’ve had a foot problem/injury since last August and I’ve not trained as I would normally expect to (not quite to the extent that you’ve missed though) but maybe there is something in less volume and intensity for getting the job done. Hopefully will be injury free come next years training block.

Quality running Mr Ford, you’ll be some of my competition next year 🙂

Sorry about the horrible formatting in my post, didn’t realise it had all copied through and it’s too late to edit now…

I also think that my days of marathon PBs may be behind me, but I do have another silly goal next year – V45 world record 5k.  It’s 14:29, and I ran 14:33 a couple of years ago, so it potentially within reach…

Intersting points above which makes me wonder, at what ate did you achieve your marathon pb? Im approaching 40 soon and im fearing not being as fit as i used to be!

I’m not sure I’ll be competition but will certainly still be in the v45s (49 next year).
A bit of focussed training will see you do the 4 seconds I’m sure.
I’ve managed a 10K PB this year, god knows how at 48 but there you go, it must have been ideal conditions I think.

@edward2000 – at 40 you’ve got loads of time to keep improving. I did my first marathon at 41 and 3 months later I had a massive cardiac event (effectively died for 10 minutes) and since then I’ve just kept improving. 7 years later I’m doing a pb at London and I think I can maybe squeeze a bit more out too. The thing with getting older is you need to be smarter about your training but more so your recovery, diet and lifestyle. If you can get things to align effectively and not feel like you are persecuting yourself to achieve goals then you can go on improving as your age.

I think a number of factors determine when you are likely to peak – the main one being when you started running, and when you started training with intensity.  I started running relatively late, in my early 30’s but didn’t start training properly until a few years later.  I ran 2:23:08 age 40 (marathon 13), and 2:23:06 age 42 (marathon 16).  It also takes a few years of training to nail a marathon, and also a few attempts.

If you’ve been running for years and years and have seen a peak then steady decline with age, despite consistent training, then probably yes, you are unlikely to improve.  However, if you’ve just dabbled and there is plenty of scope to ramp up your training volume/intensity without risking injury, then you may be surprised at what you can achieve.

Of course this ignores at what age you could theoretically maximise your potential, as world marathon winners seem to be getting younger, but that’s a different question.

Like many, I’ve put my name in the ballot for a London Marathon place next year. It’ll be about the 12th or 13th time I’ve been in the ballot and never got a place, I expect the same result this year!

When I was running yesterday I was thinking about other running challenges I can train for for next year. As I was running on the Ridgeway I had the idea of running the length of the Ridgeway over the space of a few days.
It’s 87 miles end to end so I think four days might be reasonable. I live on the route so can have a night at home part way through but the other nights would be in B&B’s as I’m not sure I’d fancy camping.

I’m not going to be aiming to break any records, I’d just be get to the end.

How would people suggest training for something like this?

I think a number of factors determine when you are likely to peak

Interesting point. I saw some data may years ago that showed you are likely to peak 10 years after you start running. It seems quite vague but the study was quite comprehensive. Doesnt mean you cant perform well before and after but as bell curves go it was quite compelling.

At 58 I have to say its very tough just running for me, never mind trying to run a little quicker but I was still running high 33 min 10ks in my early forties. At the moment even running a 6 min mile seems beyond me. Anyway you only lose if you stop running and I have no intention of doing that.

Its the Maurice Collins 5 mile road race tomorrow in Liverpool. If you are nearby I can recommend it. 2.5 laps around Walton park. Maurice was a mate of mine and we battled together for years (different clubs but same Xc leagues and road and relay events) sadly succumbed to cancer last year.

Morning all, everyone well, up to anything interesting?
We’re well and truly into 10k season here in the Midlands. 3 races so far, 2 top 15’s and the other I was 2nd in my age group but took 30 seconds off last years time. Also managed a parkrun PB at the weekend so the speed seems to be slowly returning. The trails are so good to run this time of the year, so it was a nice contrast to run a very gentle 17 miler yesterday and just take in the scenery.
On the shoe front, spending a lot of time in Puma at the moment. The Deviate Nitro 2 is a brilliant every day/tempo shoe, the outsole means it works well off road too, and the Nitro Elite is arguably the perfect parkrun shoe. Oh, and you can pick up a pair of Velocity Nitro 2’s for under £50 at Start Fitness at the moment which is an absolute bargain of a daily trainer.

I’ve been kind of following the daily suggestions that my Garmin gives me and ran a local trail 10k yesterday. My previous 10k PB in a race was 1:00.59 a couple of years back so I knew I’d beat that. It was pretty hot yesterday with some tough climbs on the course and I was running off the back of not having ran for a week due to a niggling calf injury.
As ever, I set out way too fast and just hung on until the end. Like pretty much everyone apart from the few fast folk at the front, a couple of the climbs were more walking than running.
I decided I’d be happy with anything under the hour so needless to say I was over the moon with a 54:05.

There’s a local road 10k in five weeks which is nice and flat so I’m now aiming for a sub 50 in that.
I was hoping that I could manage a sub 50 10k, a sub 2h half and a 5k somewhere close to 20 minutes before the end of the year and if things keep going the way they are then I might actually manage it.

I should really sort out some new shoes as I’m doing all of my runs in trail shoes (Hoka SpeedGoat) which probably isn’t ideal on the road. I’ve no idea what I need as I run on the forefoot so I’ll probably try and pop by a local shop and try a few pairs on.

up to anything interesting?

Jura hill race on Saturday. A country mile away from my best form but I’m just going to go and enjoy the crack.

Just pottering on the trails of the Peak District. I had a couple of years of chasing Strava goals, entering fell races and generally pushing myself (not that I was any good!). Kinda lost my mojo a bit so ditched the aspirations and went back to running for the fun of it and really enjoying it. I’d had 2 days back to back mtb Fri & Sat but sunday morning was just too nice to stay in bed so I did a short one over the moors above Burbage and it was absolutely stunning. Best run I’ve had in ages and no PB or targets beaten 🙂

Well I completed the Leeds Marathon just over a week ago. My goal of 4hrs 30 was well out the window after illness and not exactly perfect training. But i got round in 5hrs 15 in the end.
A fair chunk of walking in there, I felt great through 14 miles, on target for my 5hr goal, then my lack of training kicked in and i really struggled through to Otley. The crowds were amazing and i got a march on up the chevin, walking but overtaking a lot of people. I don’t do well in heat and it was hot and muggy. Hit a low point after the big hill until mile 21 when i started to feel good again and ran in the last 4 or 5 miles at a comfortable pace.
Hard route, but the crowds were amazing

@lunge – I picked-up the Velocty Nitro 2 from Startfitness a couple of weeks ago. Great value and very impressed. I’m intrigued by the Deviate and Elite now.

Did the Great Manchester 10k yesterday. An out & back course where I was passed by Sir Mo Farah which was a surreal moment.

Edinburgh marathon this week, hoping for sub 3 but the forecast looks pretty warm.

Keswick Mountain Festival 25km at the weekend – was hot, sweaty and very pretty. Steady 3:49 shamble for me, hilly and hard first half, flat and therefore harder when you’ve no excuse for walking second half. Went through 3L of electrolyte (topped up at each of the 3 drinks/feed stations) and was still on the verge of dehydration at the finish.