thats what she told the rest of us Hora 😉

The simplistic idea that by getting rid of Lance and you clean up cycling is flawed because it was all happening pre Armstrong.

Actually the people who use that line tend to be Armstrong apologists rather than people castigating him. Nobody has ever said that Armstrong banned for life has cleaned up cycling but part of the process is always working through people. If Lance had come forward and cooperated as he was offered a chance to he could have saved himself the lifetime ban (although probably not the lawsuits) but his ego meant he went on the attack. In case you weren’t aware, he lobbied politically to try to have USADA’s funding revoked as well as having legal challenges on the constitutionality of the case.

I think the way the people who testified got 6-month bans over winter was shit, but how do you get people to come forward if all they do is talk themselves into a 2- or 4-year ban?

Cycling hasn’t changed enough; people like Tejay van Garderen slamming Lance a year ago in press conferences but then training with him or Talansky blasting DiLuca whilst lauding Leipheimer show a load of cognitive dissonance even within the sport about what is right.

Until the UCI boots out all the team managers and DS with doping admissions/convictions, very little will change as too many of them genuinely feel they did nothing wrong.

As an aside, van Garderen has a fantastic quote about his motorpacing with Lance…

At the end of the day I just feel that it isn’t really fair that we can go to George Hincapie’s Gran Fondo, we accept that Christian Vandevelde can be our commentator, we have interviews with Frankie Andreu, but Lance is the evil guy.

I think the point is that perhaps you shouldn’t be hanging out with any of them and the media outlets shouldn’t be employing retired dopers either whilst you’re all trying to wave a flag for clean racing.

This thread reminds me why I never got into road cycling.
Exit Badnewz, pursued by a never-tested-positive bear.

I think one of the reasons why Armstrong has been hit so hard is the investigation and subsequent penalties were by USADA. They have no jurisdiction on non US riders. That is down to their own domestic governing bodies who DGAS or the UCI who were probably complicit so have no interest in a full investigation.

Lance deserves all he gets, but he will probably be seen to be hard done by until other national bodies or the UCI do it properly.

Two things make me think it’s worth pursuing Armstrong

1 – The UCI covered up his positive test. Everyone responsible for that needs to be exposed.

2 – He got the initial investigation into him by the FBI shut down. That stinks too, and needs exposing.

2 – He got the initial investigation into him by the FBI shut down. That stinks too, and needs exposing.

I was pretty sure that was quite well known that the Obama administration didn’t want to be seen to be prosecuting an “American hero” in election year so quietly put it aside.

I’m all for what’s happening to LA as his behaviour and actions were frankly disgusting but the same should be applied to all dopers in cycling regardless of how much money they’ve made or are subsequently making off book sales etc. I just think the whole witch hunt for LA and everyone’s pound of flesh smacks of double standards with regards to the other cheats that were and possibly still in the sport.

One question I do have is has anyone from the UCI been publicly outed for being involved yet?

hora ive been to war twice and rescued many people from fires/car accidents and have been awarded five medals. but to you im “background noise” as you put it when i mentioned my opinion of your behaviour in the cynic al frame sale 😉

a hero is many different things to many different people

btw im not for one min suggesting im one im just pointing out that everyone sees people differently ive still got a framed lance pic in my hallway and think pantani was awesome

i think lance has been punished more than enough. despite his wrongs he got a huge amount of people on to bikes that wouldnt have otherwise done. raised the profile of the sport and helped raise huge amounts for cancer sufferers

he seems like a proper wrong ‘un, a bad egg… he did some pretty nasty stuff

Amazing what the male ego will do to make itself feel superior.. you only have to look at half the posts on the forum, on this thread even, to notice that ego is the driving force behind pretty much everything we spew into our lives (including this post)

Imagine if you could have your ego rocketed into the stratosphere…. would you do it under the same circumstances?
Can you imagine similar circumstances?

I’ve spent the afternoon drinking with two young lads in their early 20’s with mental health issues and substance abuse problems, regular visitors to prison.. sad lonely dejected lives still governed almost entirely by ego.. And they’re still pretty sane by regular forumite standards 🙂

Sad judgemental flippin un-evolved egocentric bastards the lot of us

So if he’s ‘been punished enough’ SCA should just suck it up and write off the $10m? This isn’t a fine this is money that was awarded (after a court case forced by LA because SCA withheld it after rumours of his doping first started) under false pretences.

From nemesis’s link:

The company wants the judge to confirm an arbitration panel’s decision, made on Feb. 4 but announced on Monday, that Armstrong must pay the $10 million because he lied under oath in a previous arbitration involving SCA.

“Perjury must never be profitable,” the panel said, explaining that the case had presented “an unparalleled pageant of international perjury, fraud and conspiracy” on Armstrong’s part.

The panel added that “it is almost certainly the most devious sustained deception ever perpetrated in world sporting history” and that “deception demands real, meaningful sanctions.”

Nothing to do with cycling, punishing, witch hunts. Just business.

EDIT – and contracts:

Now his competition is more daunting. He could lose more than $100 million in a federal whistle-blower case in which the United States Postal Service contends that Armstrong defrauded it when it was sponsoring Armstrong’s team and demanded in its contract that Armstrong not dope. Armstrong could have settled that case many times, but he has refused because he still thinks he can win it.

What witch hunt? He’s been punished, the only reason he’s news is for two reasons:
1) he’s trying (and failing) to restore his reputation
2) people are getting money back from him that he got due to fraud

I’m not sure why the latter is described as “pound of flesh” if that’s what you were referring to – why shouldn’t they go after him for the money he fraudulently took them to court for?

I have no issues with this ruling. I would have a far bigger issue if the has to pay back any winnings or indeed sponsorship cash, which would seem like double standards to me given the benefit to the companies involved.

To be honest I don’t really care what happens either way, just as long as that repulsive little rodent Landis doesn’t see a penny of it.

If he breached his contract as USPS allege, and seeing as he can’t now deny doping then he’s screwed. Perhaps they were unusual in having a non-doping clause in it?

What I can’t find a good answer to is why the federal whistleblower case only effects him as it was the team that was sponsored. And most of the them were doping, and management organized it. Or is it just reporting ignores everyone else?

So where are all the promoters etc. who are taking other drugs cheats to court? It may be happening but there’s a distinct lack of any press coverage of it.

I’m quite happy to see him loose everything but all I was saying is it can’t be one rule for him and another for everyone else.

why the federal
whistleblower case only effects him

Affects 😉

The answer though is that it doesn’t. It’s aimed at Tailwind Sport who owned the USPS cycling team. Armstrong profited massively from that as a part owner (despite later denials that he was ‘just’ a rider) . That’s where he’ll lose out but he’s not the only one, just the one that people talk about.

Affect indeed.

Thanks for that clarification. The reporting I’ve seen on it has been dreadful, it never made sense to me. The part owner of the team also makes things a lot clearer. Cheers.

The doping is almost irrelevant. As others have said – it’s the way he tried to actively destroy the career of anyone, cy link or non who stood in his way. And at any cost. Not on.

That and the fact that he acknowledge he has no regrets and would do the same again. Which implies he sees no need for remorse over his actions.

It is hard to conclude he’s an alright bloke!