This last 4 months has not been universally positive, it’s really only suited the middleclass office commuters (of which I am one), who aren’t actually the centre of the universe…

On the radio this morning was a news article about happiness during lockdown, went down initially, then back up….

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/27/lockdown-narrowed-happiness-gap-wealthy-unemployed-cambridge/

There are so many elements to this, there’s no sweeping statement to cover it… I know people who have always worked from home anyway – but they do have an office base to do meetings and suchlike.
My own job, sort of govt. based, I can see us not having to go in much – we do have part of our job role which can only be done on-site, which I originally thought would keep up us permanently office based, but turns out 1 person can cover it a few hours a day.
I’ve had to temporarily set up an office space in my front room.. got me thinking I really should get a more permananent arragement organised.

It will all be back to normal work by the end of the year. Unless your in a multinational / london centric company.

My wife and I work for the same company, she was 4/5 WFH at the start and is back to 1/5 WFH, mad thing is that my managers were WFH but the rest of us are on shift, makes management very hard, its not sustainable.

I’d say there will still be a degree of WFH but it wont be permanent.

It has the potential to make a huge difference but as has been stated it’s not 100% of people 100% of the time. But even if it’s 25% o 50% of the time it’d make big changes to rush hours
and pressure on green belt possible. Wheree I work we make things so the on site team need to be on site. I’ve been able to do stuff off site using the on site team as my eyes and ears up until now. But we’ve got some big on site goings on coming up that needs (not me specifically obvs) my knowledge and hands on abilities. The only problem is, because we’ve coped so far, I can’t convince management to let me back on site! 🤪

Also, moving house to get a home office is just bollocks people live where they live for a huge range of reasons, families, schools, community, culture, compromise for the SOs work….etc etc.

So buying a bigger house suitable for working from home further from an office and/or in a nicer area is a realistic solution?

I can tell you that estate agents in nice rural areas within a couple of hours of London by train – and that’s up here into Derbyshire – are getting a lot of enquiries from people wanting to know what their 1 bed flat in Bermondsey will buy them up here now they can work from home and pop into the office once a week. Social distancing in Bakewell the other week was fine except outside estate agents windows where tourists seemed to be climbing over each other.

Which is a bit of a bugger for any locals doing those low paid key worker roles that kept us going during the pandemic.

I’m fine with this societal shift in theory, but you need to correct 40 years of failure to provide adequate social housing for the 25-35% of people who, realistically, need to rely on it.

I’m lucky as in theory I have an almost perfect set-up to work from home:
I have a dedicated home office in the spare room which means I can switch off from work by not going in there when not working.
I have a fast internet connection.
I have no kids and a wife who works for the NHS so has to go to work and therefore leaves me in a quiet house.
I can, and do, work very, very efficiently as I have no distractions.
I’m 10 mins from the local town centre to get a coffee or sarny if I so desire.

But.

I can’t wait to get back to the office.
I want to see my colleagues in person, to chat and exchange ideas.
I want to meet customers and shake some hands.
Whilst I can work efficiently at home, when I have an off day I struggle to get anything done at all, in the office I’d have people around me to help me get it done.

So whilst, in theory at least, work from home can be just as good if not better than being in the office, in practise, if I can get back in 3 days a week I’ll be overjoyed.

I’ve been WFH for a long time now (over a decade) and it’s very boring. I don’t even get zoom style interaction so end up talking to the dogs a lot. They are not natural conversationalists.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/employmentandlabourmarket/peopleinwork/employmentandemployeetypes/articles/coronavirusandhomeworkingintheuklabourmarket/2019

Interesting confirmation that STW is something of a wee bubble.

I want to see my colleagues in person, to chat and exchange ideas.
I want to meet customers and shake some hands.
Whilst I can work efficiently at home, when I have an off day I struggle to get anything done at all, in the office I’d have people around me to help me get it done.

Very much this.

I used to laugh at our home workers who would come into the office for the monthly team meeting and literally never stop talking the whole day, because they were so starved of normal face to face interaction. Now I completely get it!

God the OP is absolute rubbish sorry to say. All the “benefits” of working from home mainly fall with the employer its “cheaper” for them but more expensive for us in every aspect general utilities, food and all that get pushed onto the worker. I feel like the majority claiming the office is dead are those lucky enough to have a home office. Come back to me when you have spent 4 months sat on a sofa working from home like I have. Also, lets not forget the mental health benefits if sitting and working with you team in the same building talking face to face to solve problems.

And, a final thought im about to move house so will have no internet for a few weeks with no offices that makes stuff really hard.

I’d like to think the expectation from companies won’t be that WFH is a must unless they plan on compensating folk for the extra floorspace and things like a proper office chair doing it right long term will take. Also heating when we hit the winter proper – we got lucky with a very warm start to lockdown given the time of year. People’s bills will go up lots if the house is normally unoccupied during the working day. The concept of HAVING to WFH longterm for many would be a nightmare for mental health, physical space, lack of good internet etc etc.

But – reducing all the commuting every day for everyone – hell yes! It seems a win win socially, economically, environmentally.

Very interesting R4 programme last week about the difference between a zoom and a physical meeting – we subconsciously start to breath in sync and the mirrored body language that does not happen remotely. Apparently explains a lot of the cutting across each other you get in a zoom/teams meeting. Also, I’ve hated being managed and managing others exclusively online. I know this is partly about a change of working pattern but I just don’t think it cuts it.

For me a nirvana would be a world where you had a physical place to work that you had to be for a certain amount of the week so that physical meetings could happen and you could be if you chose for the rest of the week but with WFH much more of a thing. So say you ended up in the office 2 days a week and WFH the rest. Lots of boring things need to happen however like train season tickets for part time use making economic sense which they don’t at the moment. It would also be good if somehow it was coordinated so the whole world did not commute in on a Monday with everyone WFH on a Thursday – that would be hell for commuting and financial ruin for the services that survive off the back of office workers.

Interesting confirmation that STW is something of a wee bubble.

no shit 😂 the assumption that everyone has enough land & the funds to build a separate garden office is especially hilarious 😃

would be a world where you had a physical place to work that you had to be for a certain amount of the week so that physical meetings could happen and you could be if you chose for the rest of the week but with WFH much more of a thing.

This is how our work are advertising things as the potential new normal – a rented office with a 100% bookable hot desk/rooms.   Employees will be encouraged to “mix it up” on thier own terms, and some teams like ours will have regular once a months meetings, COVID cautious.

I don’t buy into the costs being passed onto the staff argument. You can get an allowance/small tax rebate for heating, I’m saving £80 – £100 a week in fuel, parking, “posh” coffees, ad-hoc lunches and post work beers, collections for retirements, weddings, births, deaths….

If you’re expected to work from home your employer should be making sure that you have a suitable desk, chair etc

I’m saving £80 – £100 a week in fuel, parking, “posh”

Conversely those that arguably did the right thing and plonked their home and work close enough that they could walk or bike to work don’t have this self induced ‘tax’ benefit.

collections for retirements, weddings, births, deaths….

Hmmmm, I think that might say something about you. Does this mean that now you are out of sight, out of mind you can get away without being a team player? I think if working from home is a long term sustainable thing teams needs to remain being teams. And if that means buying each other gifts, making a team member feel valued on a special day or having some social time with them over a drink it should very much still continue. If you don’t value these things….well…you suck as a work colleague!

If you’re expected to work from home your employer should be making sure that you have a suitable desk, chair etc

Will they also be paying for the extension for those not fortunate to have the space to accommodate said desk and chair too?

If you’re not travelling to work or getting dressed or paying for lunch or pens you won’t be needing to be paid so much, will you?

Space is a massive issue that seems to have been missed by a lot of managers. My wife and I regularly get messages from work about how things are going but they always seem to assume you have a actual space to work in separate from your normal life. They don;t seem to realise people are sitting on their sofa or dining table then have to pack their office away every night and set it up again in the morning.

I sit at the dining table and my wife sits at a camping table behind me. We don’t have a spare room to work in, so before summer holidays started our 2 kids were working in their bedrooms. This is all massively intrusive to our lives.

We’re having an attic conversion started in Oct so we will have a spare room once thats done which will make things much better, especially if the kids actually get to go back to school in Sept!

We’ll be one of the lucky ones then though, and there will still be loads of people that just don’t have proper spaces to work in.

All that should be considered before we right off offices completely as well as the social/mental side of being with colleagues, idea building or training juniors. It’s nice just to be able to just lift your head and speak to some one or as k a general question about the scheme your working rather than having to book in a teams call….

I don’t think office working will go back to 100% for all, I’d like to carry on wfh a few days a week, but it will certainly not disappear all together and nor should it.

If you’re expected to work from home your employer should be making sure that you have a suitable desk, chair etc

That is assuming someone has space to put a desk and chair in their house? My personal situation there just isnt space in my 1 bed flat. I feel like a lot of people who champion wfh are lucky enough to be in a position where they have a decent office set up and seem unable to understand why its not the same for everyone.

Also, people seem to forget that some people like myself enjoy the office. I like cycling to work, seeing my friends (yep i like the people i work with) and being able to switch off once 5:30 hits leaving my laptop at work.

I think there’s going to be a big increase in demand for local building firms doing extensions/garage conversions/posh sheds for home offices. I worked from home occasionally before, and have moved into the spare bedroom for now (its not like we have any guests), but the view from my employer is that we’re likely (long term) to never be back permanently in the office as we used to be. Maybe we’ll be in 1 day a week, or 1 week a month. For that level of permanency working from home, I (along with lots of others) will spend to get a permanent, nice space to spend 8 hours a day..

If you don’t value these things….well…you suck as a work colleague

I don’t agree.  There’s no obligation to pay for other work colleagues gifts.  That’s the kind of thing I do for my friends, notwithstanding one may also be the other but not in everybody’s case.

All the “benefits” of working from home mainly fall with the employer its “cheaper” for them but more expensive for us in every aspect general utilities, food and all that get pushed onto the worker. I feel like the majority claiming the office is dead are those lucky enough to have a home office. Come back to me when you have spent 4 months sat on a sofa working from home like I have. Also, lets not forget the mental health benefits if sitting and working with you team in the same building talking face to face to solve problems.

The OP actually has spent the last 4 months trying to WFH on the sofa , while we try & home school 4 kids!
Trying to use the laptop while 3 year olds want to mash on the keyboard is hell.
Our house is a state,

I actually work in a lab so 70-50% of my work has to be done on site (& this last 3weeks I’m now doing 2.5 days a week back in the lab, but odd shifts to keep numbers down)
It’s been a testing time especially as haven’t been able to have grandparents help out!

I definitely miss genuine interaction, tho my boss has been pretty good, we have a daily optional 10am zoom chat , weekly group meetings & bi weekly department ones after our weey meeting we ‘go to the pub’ have a beer & do a quiz.

My productivity went in fits & starts
But I’m not wasting 2 hrs a day & £500 a month commuting

Even if i dearly miss interacting physicallu with colleagues

Once youngest two were back in nursery it got a lot easier.

My point is that with at least for a year, this will be the norm & assuming one day we have a vaccine/treatment

The internet rendered many aspects of offices a decade ago, zoom , teams, slack, WhatsApp
We still need to interact & meet up, maybe a few days a month etc

About Half the UK workforce are office based, we’ve shaped our towns & cities around it , but in the age of the www it’s not efficient.

Government, managers, businesses, workers have had to change since lockdown

We all need to adapt some more

If you’re not travelling to work or getting dressed or paying for lunch or pens you won’t be needing to be paid so much, will you?

I think you’re taking the piss, but…

What about people who didn’t pay to travel to work previously?

You still pay for lunch, you just don’t buy a pre packed butty every day.

I haven to buy more pens now as I can access the stationary cupboard.

In winter I’ll have the heating on longer. I might need to upgrade my Wifi, I’m using more electricity at home now…..

If I didn’t have a seperate room with a door I can close, and a pc set up on a big desk with a comfy chair and multiple screens there’s no way I’d have been able to WFH at the same level as I am, I feel for the people having to sit on the sofa and work, it’s not a long term solution.

We as a company are now in the process of sending out hundreds of extra monitors/chairs etc etc to users as WFH is being implemented longer term, which will help – but none of that helps if you’re in the same room as a screaming kid watching paw patrol and a dog barking and needing attention.

Ideally everyone would have a space which is off limits to other people – “if the doors closed, we don’t disturb daddy, OK?” – apart from bringing the odd cup of coffee of course 😀

There is always going to be a cadre of people who think that any interaction with colleagues aside from strict business that assists them to achieve their explicit objectives is a “waste of time”.

Everybody has different approaches and needs, and home situations. In my view we will have to accept each other’s ways of working a bit more in terms of being in the office vs WFH.

It is very difficult to build a collaborative approach to working, especially with new people joining.

I can’t see us being in the office again until after winter. Why pay all that money to heat a huge building, ‘flu season, lots of reasons.

The figure of 20% had come up – I read that as we all attend the office on the same day once a week to speak to each other – different branches on different days. Some kind of booking system, come in if you want/need on the other days, don’t if you don’t.

How long before ikea start selling WFH office pods ?

I don’t agree. There’s no obligation to pay for other work colleagues gifts. That’s the kind of thing I do for my friends, notwithstanding one may also be the other but not in everybody’s case.

Not being funny chap, but from your previous posting history I would have expected you to say that. Whilst huge whole office contributions where people are expected to chip in for someone they would struggle to recognise are naff, gifts and cards for those you work closest with are a good thing imo. More than the gift itself it’s the fact that you value them as a person that is important. I can’t imagine wanting to work in a team full of people who didn’t want to be at least a small part of each other’s lives (enough to acknowledge their marriage or eat a cake with them on their birthday) . But I’m writing this on an internet forum notorious for being populated by the socially awkward so I’m not expecting wholehearted support!

I think you’re taking the piss, but…

What about people who didn’t pay to travel to work previously?

You still pay for lunch, you just don’t buy a pre packed butty every day.

I haven to buy more pens now as I can access the stationary cupboard.

In winter I’ll have the heating on longer. I might need to upgrade my Wifi, I’m using more electricity at home now…..

You can claim tax relief for stuff, but is it worth it?

https://www.gov.uk/tax-relief-for-employees/working-at-home

A whole £26 a month. Wooooo

It’ll be 90% back to how it was by October.

Deaths only doubling every three days then?

We won’t be back in an office until 2021. And even then we have 11/9 hot desks. More than three days at home requires a new contract for us.

Wait till the tube and trains fill up. Currently at 25% capacity.

Our workplace is a mix – some people can’t wait to get back, others wouldn’t mind if they never saw an office again! I suspect that breakdown is split pretty evenly between the people with lack of space / crap internet / limited facilities nearby and those with massive houses / spare rooms / no kids.

You miss those little moments of social interaction; the quick coffee break, the sitting down with lunch or a walk to the cafe / sandwich shop and those moments before / after meetings where you can have a brief chat with one or two colleagues.

But time is more productive, meetings are generally better attended online than in person because of the lack of travel and you can fit more into the day. Was always a logistical nightmare of planning a meeting in the Leeds office and then the travel arrangements (and basically wasted time) back to Manchester or off to another meeting in Sheffield/York etc.

And of course there are plenty of people who can’t work from home or would still need to go into work a couple of days a week. Hopefully it will make the overall commute a bit better with staggered working hours, fewer people travelling per day but it could easily take a couple of years for it all to filter through the system as workplaces and employees adapt, companies consolidate offices and so on.

the consensus is: it depends and everyone’s different.

in my own case I currently WFH 2 days a week only as still on flexible furlough when (if?) Im back to 5 days then a happy medium of 2 days in and 3 days WFH would be sweet.

in my area where WFH is entirely possible, subject to the IT and remote access being secure and fast enough, then it really helps with employment prospects as I can now consider commuting to the next big city if its only 2 days a weeks, whereas 5 days would’ve been a tortuous grind.

sorry for being a curmudgeon but sat at my home office (dining table currently) and listening to 6 music all day instead of weak office ‘bantz’ is far more appealing

but these are my particulars I understand how WFH is driving people nuts. even things like – having to pick up my kid from school and avoid after school club fees (which means I have to catch up in the evening and blurring work/home lines) or being expected to do housework. these all suck

I’m lucky I can either work from the conservatory or summer house – we’ve got the space. MrsF was working, but on furlough, and no job shortly, she had a desk in the house. My son was working from his bedroom, but has been let go – found it very hard as he was a trainee and had little support.

Lots of my colleagues are working from their rooms or on a settee – can’t be good, also add in the stress of young kids. My kids are older teens.

I’m looking forward to some more flexibility, and wouldn’t mind working from home 2-3 days a week, and I’ll do ‘earlies’ when back in the office, but I’m missing the interaction, office banter and general buzz. It can be very lonely sat in a shed at the end of the garden.

We have staff that don’t have a work laptop that are struggling with their own PC/laptops as they aren’t allowed the VPN software that all the laptop users have. Some staff managed to take their office computer home. I can see rolling out of laptops being the norm. The VPN has worked perfectly, and my wifi/internet has been great. Some staff have struggled.

Corporates won’t want to be forced to sell real estate at below market rate prices.

Most just rent, owning property is very 1980s.

No, and a lot of pension fund money etc is invested in this type of property, another hit waiting to happen.

Pension funds are very diversified, so a knock to commerical property prices won’t be the end of the world.

I have had two depressing letters about suspension of trading in my pension funds because of the huge drop in their value. I strongly suspect that my (already meagre) pension savings will not recover in time for me to retire.

My sister works for a large company with very expensive central London offices. They’ve all been workign from home from 3 weeks before lockdown.

They’ve just polled all staff to see who wants to return to the office and who would be happy to continue working from home. The percentage was 20% who wanted to return to the office.

These were exclusively recent graduates and staff in their 20’s as they were all living in either houseshares or tiny flats as obviously thats all they can afford in London

WFH has its advatanges.

Me, earlier.

I have had two depressing letters about suspension of trading in my pension funds because of the huge drop in their values

Unless you’ve stuck all your pension in property funds, this should only affect a small part of your pension.

My Clerical Medical company pension’s default allocation used to be 20% in commercial property.

NB I pulled out of commerical property some time ago, so have propbably less than 1% of my pension in property.

They’ve just polled all staff to see who wants to return to the office and who would be happy to continue working from home. The percentage was 20% who wanted to return to the office.

We did this and the response was also very low, so we decided not to renew our lease and are now officeless!

Not being funny chap, but from your previous posting history I would have expected you to say that. Whilst huge whole office contributions where people are expected to chip in for someone they would struggle to recognise are naff, gifts and cards for those you work closest with are a good thing imo. More than the gift itself it’s the fact that you value them as a person that is important. I can’t imagine wanting to work in a team full of people who didn’t want to be at least a small part of each other’s lives (enough to acknowledge their marriage or eat a cake with them on their birthday) . But I’m writing this on an internet forum notorious for being populated by the socially awkward so I’m not expecting wholehearted support!

I understand you.  Just from a physiological perspective though I’m intrigued as to why you think that.   Do you think I don’t have friends?

FWIW, I’m on the Reset program where my money and outgoings are prioritised toward the support of my family and future rather than a Secret Santa gift that ultimately most people don’t want and goes in the bin.    Thats not to say I don’t ever contribute to charity or others – I prioritise it to when it has proper meaning and effect towards peoples feelings and lives rather than throw it at tat people won’t remember.

You’ll know from my history this is a tough balance but also a benefit of reduced materialism – I’ve no need to buy others admiration or adoration through throwaway gifts.

Anyway, lets not bore everyone.

We did this and the response was also very low, so we decided not to renew our lease and are now officeless!

Also happening to us.   We are now getting WFH advisories (e.g. take breaks) advisories. and advice.

My company is downsizing it’s office and we’re a commercial property business. Love working from home. No need to be performatively busy, if i want to spend half an hour quietly thinking about a problem i can. No one asking me questions about mice (i’m a senior server tech), nice home cooked lunches, the list goes on.

I do have proper space for a desk though, appreciate not everyone does. Heard tales of youngsters in shared houses hunched over laptops on beds!

the only things i miss about the office are cycling in, and Caribbean curry wednesdays.