Pretty much everything in my life as a Christian is based on the New Testament, so for me the moral genocide bit is about as important as putting the Mrs in the shed when the painters are in.

Although the new testament does not dismiss the old testament. If both works were the word of God then who (as Sam Harris observes) decides what is "good" in the good book?

Surfer,some people have a belief system that doesn't conform to your opinion of how it should,why do you have a problem with that?

This is a common response and manipulation of what religion is. I have no problem with your "belief" per se, and as an individual I just assume you believe in fairies. However I do have an issue with the resources that are squandered and the disproportionate influence your belief in an "invisible friend" has on my life.

Whether it be the misallocation of funds due to the favorable tax position your invisible friend enjoys in this country, which I would far rather be spent on the provision of more important resources such as improved healthcare.
Or the disproportinate influence it has over the allocation of funding into medical science, which as a direct result of your unsubstantiated fairy stories has restricted the most ground breaking developments in stem cell research and in the US, set this research back years.
Or maybe I am a little miffed that the leader of the catholic church ruins and prematurely ends millions of innocent believers lives in sub saharan Africa every year, as a direct result of preaching the evil of Condom use (even amongst married couples)

Its far to easy to claim the "golden rule" as a distillation of Chrisitanity however the truth is often a little darker. Your weasel words and cherry picking of texts sounds a little like a BNP supporter claiming not to be a racist but instead a supporter of their tax policies!
If you are a Christian then you need to accept what goes with it in my opinion.

Ok, Surfer I have no problem with your complaints about tax etc,something which people have complained about for the last thousand years.However registered chasrities get the same breaks,do they not? The stem cell issue is one that concerns me on grounds of morality,not religion. My views on contraception are stated above.Who decides what is good in the good book? The individual of course, that is why people down the ages have been able to do so much harm and justify it.
What exactly are my weasel words,would that be having a different point to you and daring to defend it? The comparison to the BNP is almost as good as puddings claims that if you are a Christian, you are an apologist for genocide.You and pudding seem to have a far more restrictive view on what people should and should not be allowed to believe than most Christians,despite any claims you may make about.
So to finish up, may I assume that your view is that as a Christian,I am partly responsibile for every act of genocide carried out in the name of God? There that makes thing simpler.

What he (surfer) said :o)
Theres something odd about all these 'christians'. Running about, not reading their bibles, not bothering to understand theology, not applying any thought or reason to life the universe or anything.
I'm surprised they bother, but I suppose it explains how the whole illogical inhumane mess keeps rumbling on?

duckman,
I'm _not_ saying you should apologise for the genocide in the bible.

I'm just pointing out that YOUR GOD (now including 33.3% Jesus, and added spirit), personally ordered and watched over genocide, rape and mass murder on a collosal scale (all be it a long time ago).

If he exists, he has some pretty difficult questions to answer. If you prefer not to ask … well whatever :o)

(PS the phrase you use "in the name of" implies that you think that people did these things without gods permission. That would be an error on your part. You should really read it.)

Pudding you seem completely unable to get over the idea that all Christians belong to the moral Genocide club, as you put it.My first point on this post was that these people are not Christians as defined by my defination of what my experience of being and growing up with other Christians is.I am sure you know some people who are Christian as I have tried to define it. are they the same are the paramilitarys who claim links to a church?

And you seem unable (or unwilling) to read or understand whats written in your own holy book by your own god.
Why is that?
(Go on .. read it, I dare you ;o)

PS, I've had this discussion before, and some of the nicest most decent and loving people I know (2 of them) have read the bits in question and thought about it and eventually told me that;

"by definition everything god does is good"
"therefore even if he orders genocide it MUST be moral"
"therefore if he ordered me to go into X town and kill all the occupants it would be the right and moral thing to do"

This is your brain on religion, pretty huh?

PS, I've had this discussion before, and some of the nicest most decent and loving people I know (2 of them) have read the bits in question and thought about it and eventually told me that;

by definition everything god does is good"
"therefore even if he orders genocide it MUST be moral"
"therefore if he ordered me to go into X town and kill all the occupants it would be the right and moral thing to do"

This is your brain on religion, pretty huh?

Sorry don't believe you now. I have read the bible cover to cover many times, you obviously, as Ernie pointed out haven't,as you continue to demonstrate.Oh well; guess we will have to agree to disagree eh? It is a pity you are unable to accept that somebody has a completely different view to you without attempting to undermine it, but hey, applying your own logic, must be your upbringing.

Whatever … It is sad (and disturbing) but it is true (we don't talk religion much any more and once it was a long walk home :o)

The genocide (and slavery & rape) is there in black and white too.

"I have read the bible cover to cover" Maybe, but you might not have been paying attention.

Anyway (I hope for the last time) I don't have to justify whats in there.
YOU, (as someone who worships the author) probably should at least try.

I freely admit that there are nice bits (which contradict the evil bits) elsewhere within the same book (thanks Ernie).

But (outside reverso world) that doesn't make it a better book 🙄

Ta ta

Sorry about the dig about your upbringing. So, I am going to the Queens path above Dunkeld this weekend,should be good,if muddy.

The stem cell issue is one that concerns me on grounds of morality,not religion.

What is you moral issue with the above? Given your morals are shaped by your religion how can you claim it is unrelated?

Can you outline your concerns to stem cell research?

I should clarify, My problem is with the "old" method of collecting the cells, which I am led to believe is still in use in the Eastern block. What's next surfer?

My problem is with the "old" method of collecting the cells

So leaving aside the collecting of them, the use of stem cells for research causes you no issues?

I am sure you are baiting a trap, but no, not with the newer method where the cells are artificially grown. I just didn't like the idea of removing tissue from an aborted embryo.I am obviously against abortion for conveniences sake, but then I am sure you could guess that.

This Englishman is backing slowly away, I suggest my fellow countrymen do likewise!

My posts never last this long normally. I can't even remember what it was. Must have been controversial.

I can't even remember what it was. Must have been controversial.

😉
God knows.