[Closed] Taking kids on holiday during school term. Refusals, fines?

Here we go...........

3 pages?

FWIW, in his first year, if he's still under 5 then we got told that they couldn't fine you as they didn't legally have to be in school.

Argue you can offset against any teaching days lost through inset days or NUT strikes.

I hear Hitler was taken out of school for his holidays....

/Godwin

ads678 - Member

Here we go...........

Oh dear, have I committed the terrible crime of asking a previously asked question? If so, please accept my most sincere of apologies.

 

Here's my thread from last time, just to save everyone repeating the same [i]"You are a terrible parent and an awful human being"[/i] flaming 😀

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/taking-the-kids-out-of-school-to-going-skiing-opinions

OP: personally Year 1 primary I'd do it, even if the school does fine you, you'll still save hundreds of pounds.

You had the kid, they come with responsibilities and costs.
If you weren't ready to bear them why'd you do it?
It isn't as if this is a surprise.
We had a great holiday in 2011 after GCSEs, finally out of the peak demand.

Thanks GrahamS for your mature answer, will read all that instead. 🙂

depends on the age and what importance you place on education I guess.

I wouldn't, but that's just me.

Oh dear, have I committed the terrible crime of asking a previously asked question? If so, please accept my most sincere of apologies.

Apology accepted, although that wasn't what I meant!!

Rather than 'here we go again......' It was more of a 'Here we go, this is gonna kick off'!!

Argue you can offset against any teaching days lost through inset days...

... or NUT strikes.

facts aren't welcome here.

Thanks GrahamS for your mature answer, will read all that instead.

I don't think you've got time if you're going in October.

Bizarrely the school had no problem letting us take youngest seadog out for a week at the end of term (he's 13). It was to be in the gap between his big sister finishing her A level exams and the start of summer hols.

However, HE has flatly refused to do this and has reluctantly agreed to a long weekend. ???

FWIW, I'm away at work lot, and have managed to be abroad every single school holiday this year, so the school are being sympathetic. Also, he has reached or got beyond all his attainment targets this year.

a fine? payable for what exactly? 😕

Apparently you have to send your kids to school, or register them SORN, or su mmat. It's the law.

However, HE has flatly refused to do this and has reluctantly agreed to a long weekend

Take it personally

It'll be ok , I think its unlikely you will get fined unless you do it repeatedly.

You know whether removing them from school for a week will be detrimental for them or not . If it was me , with child at that age , I dont think it would be detrimental.

I think we'll do something similar next winter for our ski hols, will save about £2k I think, Julian jnr will be in the reception class by then, I think it'll be fine.

You know whether removing them from school for a week will be detrimental for them or not

(Edit - unless of course you ARE an education professional. 🙂 )

a fine? payable for what exactly?

Being a bad parent. Duh!

I have no real issue as long as you dont moan about yeachers fining you. Its not us its that lovely Mr Gove.

See, I don't get that - not being an education professional, how do you know?

I dont need to be an education professional to know, I use my own life experiences, judgement (or lack of - depending on your Pov) and knowledge of the person in question and the school in question to make a decision. Same as the many thousands of decisions I make.

anyway - I know how these discussions go from here on, and I'm not trying to convince anyone that they are wrong and I'm right - so thats me out.

That's fair enough. 🙂 I'm not either, but Mrs Pondo is, and some of the stories I hear of parental interpretation of how the school should treat their children are nuts.

(I have a particular bee in my bonnet about taking kids out of school for holidays, mostly because my second cousin wanted to take hers out to go to her mum and dad's renewal of their wedding vows (because of course you can only do that in term time, right? And it's far more important they miss a week for a half-hour ceremony that has no practical meaning than they, say, go to school) - she asked the school if she could take them out for a week, the school said no, she took them anyway and got fined, then had a mighty old rant about the unfairness of it all. Does my head in.)

Here we go..........

Ok then

You have a Baby On Board sticker, if not you should. If the school give you any crap, take the teacher or whoever outside, show then the sticker and explain that that means you can do WHATEVER YOU DAMN WELL LIKE. After all, you're a man, and a virile one at that, you've got a kid, so the rules don't apply to you and the only education your kid needs is that rules are for other people to follow.

a fine? payable for what exactly

I'm not going to argue the right or wrong bit since its irrelevant for me as my wife is a teacher at our kids school so we will never get the time off but make sure you calculate the possible fines correctly. A pal of mine got a fine of £300 last week from the council for taking their kids out. apparently the fine is calculated per child/per day/per parent.

He aint happy

I'm aware of a school that had to close a class for several days because several specialist staff chose to take the written warning for a term time holiday they could get cheap.

mrs_oab is a teacher.
I teach teachers for a living. I am deputy chair of parent council.

Our three will be missing the last two days of term in the summer, as we will be on the ferry to France for a fortnights riding, canoeing and fun.

Being north of the border these pesky fine thing's don't happen.

😀

I'm aware of a school that had to close a class for several days because several specialist staff chose to take the written warning for a term time holiday they could get cheap.

I'm aware of a school that had to close a class for several days because several specialist staff chose to take the written warning for a term time holiday they could get cheap.

Really? Could you also define what you mean by "specialist staff" and "close class".

Matt are you not taking the mrs on holiday?

Yes.
The beauty of a part time contract, which when adding additional days (and a desperate council) was negotiated that she finished term on her 'normal' Wednesday, not the Friday, due to a vital prior commitment. 8)

The last two days of summer term are a non event anyway.

However, when MrsMoreCash and I decided to have kids, we realised that they involved certain commitments and responsibilities, some of them legally enforceable.

We figured out that this may involve either paying more for our normal type holidays if we went in the school holiday times, or else having different, cheaper holidays. It was kind of part of the deal. Our cheap break in the sun was NOT more important than our kids education, however flawed we might think that is.

Obviously, until the middle class masses started taking the piss, head teachers had some discretion, and that system worked fine until people who should have been better educated themselves abused it.

Either they give head teachers the discretion again, or they properly ramp up the fines to make it uneconomic to break the rules. Kind of piss or get off the pot.

Happy to be flamed, I just don't see how peoples lives are so awful that they absolutely must get their cheap holiday every year to escape from it. What kind of life are you living?

Just read the thread properly and chubbyblokeinlycra has just made me spit coffee on the keyboard.

Where's the damn like button?

What kind of life are you living?

A_a - kids with complex medical needs being told the school couldn't provide the staff to support them.

TPTcruiser - Member
You had the kid, they come with responsibilities and costs.
If you weren't ready to bear them why'd you do it?
It isn't as if this is a surprise.
We had a great holiday in 2011 after GCSEs, finally out of the peak demand.

Too many assumptions here.
1. I didn't plan 'the kid', my ex did.
2. It was a surprise.
3. A holiday in a school break isn't always more expensive due to peak demand. I once paid top dollar for a holiday in October and when I got to the destination, the hotel was dead and nearly everything was closed down.

Dont see the problem of getting better deal, even if you still pay fine ...

Some families don't earn as much as others, and if that makes financial sense then why not.

All respect to teachers etc, but world doesn't revolve around them. Other hard working parents have a lot more to deal with, so teachers micky-mousing is equivalent to ordinary wife's nagging.

Child benefits more with their parents on holiday, you know ... quality time all together and stuff.

If you crafty, bribe head teacher to reduce your fine. Works for many.

We figured out that this may involve either paying more for our normal type holidays if we went in the school holiday times, or else having different, cheaper holidays. It was kind of part of the deal. Our cheap break in the sun was NOT more important than our kids education, however flawed we might think that is.

[i]hard working parents[/i]

I do love the way this phrase has become part of the language.

Politicians think it's great because anyone who's a parent automatically assumes it covers them and feels slightly smugger than before.

In this case the assumption is that only people who work hard woudl take their children out of school during term time because they're on a tight budget, working hard to stay off state benefits etc when in fact most of them just see a way of getting holiday they could have afforded to take during school holidays a bit cheaper.

Fame at last 8)

I can remember taking days off school to go on holiday. (I can remember the form I had to get from school for my parents to fill in) I don't remember how many times but it was more than once. Can't say it had the slightest effect on my schooling at all.
My mum was a teacher by the way.

Just playing devils advocate.

Can kids be excluded for playing truant? Just wondering as I know the waiting lists for some schools is huge so it could be an easy way to get them down, as if the parents don't care about education their kids education, it shouldn't matter if they get moved to a less popular school.

[i]My mum was a teacher by the way. [/i]

was she throwing a sickie to take you out of school?

All respect to teachers etc, but world doesn't revolve around them. Other hard working parents have a lot more to deal with, so teachers micky-mousing is equivalent to ordinary wife's nagging

Proof education should be taken seriously!! WTF are you talking about?

Just take them. I had a week a year off for family holidays (as I'm sure most adults on here did) and I didn't turn out to be a stupid criminal.

The fines are for parents who just cant be bothered to force their kids to go to school, and let them skip whenever they want.

richc

All respect to teachers etc, but world doesn't revolve around them. Other hard working parents have a lot more to deal with, so teachers micky-mousing is equivalent to ordinary wife's nagging.

I'll bite. My wife is a teacher and as such works to a curriculum. When a parent / parents take little Tom / Jemima out of school for a week or two so that they can enrich their lives in a way school never could then the rest of the class carry on with timetabled lessons. Absent children return and have missed lessons, things have moved on. Resource has to then be assigned to help them catch up.

You may view school as a inconvenience and teachers as existing purely to screw up your plans but surprisingly enough a good chunk of them do the job to try and make a difference to children's lives.

was she throwing a sickie to take you out of school?

No. She gave up work when my brother was born in 1976 and went back as a supply teacher when my sister started school in around 1987, so she could pick and choose her days at that point.

For those that missed a week or 2 of school each year and think it didn't harm their education - maybe you could have achieved even more?!

My parents took me out each year until I was 9 and they'd started paying for me to go to Prep school.... 😀

If it's reception it shouldn't make any difference. However, higher up the ladder it can screw stuff up. I recently had a girl out for three weeks in the middle of term (a once in a lifetime to Australia apparently, so that's alright) She missed the bulk of a practical unit. And was never going to catch up. Her mum was less than impressed with my suggestion that i email her the scheme of work so she could catch up at home, and also complained because her level had nit risen on her most recent review. Bet she moans on mumsnet about lazy teachers.

a once in a lifetime to Australia apparently, so that's alright

As a parent of two teenagers, I have in the past taken them out of school (normally last week of summer term when not much happens). I think common sense is needed. At the moment I have GCSE's and AS levels looming. I would not dream of letting either of my two miss school at this stage, but in primary school if they are making good progress then I don't see an issue with a few days, and the progress my two are making now backs up that judgment made when they were younger. Doubt they would have made more progress at GCSE/AS either as they are in top 10% in their class and teachers don't have the resources to allow one or two pupils to get 6 months ahead of their peers.

a once in a lifetime to Australia apparently, so that's alright

The most overused phrase with kids and holidays really

I know it boils my pee when I hear it 😆

Not as good as one of my Yr11s last year who went on holiday with his parents for the 2 weeks before the May half term - think they went to some Spanish resort, so he was probably massively hungover for most of his exams. To much surprise from his parents and himself (though I think he probably knew!) he managed to get a good grade or 2 below all of his predictions. The school then declined his late application to 6th form on the basis that his attendance and performance in Yrs 10 and 11 were abysmal.

I think common sense is needed.

Common sense is not an option given the current regulations bought in by Mr Gove. Teachers do not have the ability to show discretion.

Common sense is not an option given the current regulations bought in by Mr Gove.

This.

As per the other thread, our school said that they would have to notify the authorities (council?) and that we may face fines for taking our FOUR year old out of Reception for five days.

That seems a bit mad to me. Her teacher was perfectly happy for her to go.

That seems a bit mad to me. Her teacher was perfectly happy for her to go.

Common sense is not an option given the current regulations bought in by Mr Gove. Teachers do not have the ability to show discretion.

As per the other thread, our school said that they would have to notify the authorities (council?) and that we may face fines for taking our FOUR year old out of Reception for five days.

Dear Skool

My son/daughter will be off sick between the following dates [u] [/u]

Kind regards

A. Parent

What I don't get is its perfectly acceptable for the school to do ski trips i.e. a holiday, in school time. Yet it's not acceptable for the parents to take kids out of school on same week to go skiing or whatever??

I don't see a problem with it at all, especially very early years. Unfortunately the wife does, so we go camping in school hols (although I'm typing this from a 5 year saving super hol in Orlando!).
For the record, my lad hasn't missed a days school sickness or holiday since year r sick day.

Not many schools do ski trips during term time do they. Certainly none I have worked in have. Mind you I dont ghink schools should do ski trips at all.

Maybe that **** Gove changed the rules because [i]some[/i] parents didn't have the common sense needed to avoid their kids absence being an issue to the child's education, and/or their fellow students, and/or the teacher who had to work extra to try and get them to catch up again?

With rights come responsibilities - or don't they teach that any more? 😉

Term time ski trips are the norm around my way. S.hants

Superfli, I find that very suprising given the staffing issues it must cause.

we booked our summer holidays for this year last august.. got a cracking deal for a repeat booking.. so last week of august nice cottage in the yorkshire dales.. in november school said they were changing school holidays and they will be back in now day after august bank holiday..

so should dd2 miss the second half of the holiday or be left at home with a loaf of bread and two jars of jam.

Personally - IDGAF
Both of mine are over 6 months ahead of their peers, the eldest cant get graded any higher on 5 of her subjects because of the hard work she's put in and the fact that she'd need to have left school in 2yrs time and gone back to do A-Levels to move up any higher....
The classes are formed to cater to the middling with emphasis on the poorer grades with special help, assistants, etc. There is no "Bright and Gifted" so they are both effectively kicking their heels waiting for assessments as there is no course work left for them.
So as a single Dad, running a couple businesses - if I choose to take them on holiday when I am able to take time out (which ISN'T during the holidays) then I bloody well will.
Since when does a blanket ban on something like this benefit anyone other than a few pencil pushers in an office somewhere looking at statistics.
Common sense and a teacher/head that actually KNOWS the child/ren is far more effective to police this.

Is such a fine legally enforceable? What would happen if you refused to pay it?

[quote=GrahamS ]our school said that they would have to notify the authorities (council?) and that we may face fines for taking our FOUR year old out of Reception for five days.

Well in that particular case they're surely wrong as you're not legally obliged to send a 4yo to school.

We went away for a week 2 years ago, that was the last week of the summer term - daughter was 12. Her Secondary School is split between two sites and it was the last week at the lower site.

We wrote to the school requesting absence, but never received a reply. As the holiday approached (we'd booked it anyway), I rang school - the receptionist stated that all was fine, they had received our letter and absence had been approved. It was a great holiday and our daughters education didn't seem to suffer.

Thinking a little differently this year as GCSE's are approaching

I knew a school where the kiddy catcher would go around and knock on the doors of the perpetually truant in the morning, to check and see if they were home in bed, and if they were, and they promised not to go out causing trouble he marked them present.

I wouldn't worry about taking out a younger child from school, KS1/EYFS isn't too bad, once they are into KS2/3/4 though it becomes more problematic.

Saying that, I have had parents take students away for three weeks before IGCSE exams, some parents were more caring though and simply abondened their kids at home for a month so they could go shopping in NYC, leaving the soon to be sitting IGCSE child taking care of a 4 and an 8 year old.

I'm struggling to see what 1weeks difference will make in a year.

Theres kids on our street that seemingly dont go to school at all and there are always Police raids at that house but thats another topic that Im not allowed to mention on here

Some people need to stop handringing. Its hard enough having to work, pay all your taxes and then be made to feel bad thst you need a break for all your family.

It should be down to common sense and head teachers discretion. But it I not hand wringing to argue that the rules are there for a reason. We manage to take our family away for a much needed break every year. But we do it in the school holidays, which means we can't always afford to do what we'd really like to do.

The problem seems to be a failure to set budgets/expectations to fit in with flawed legislation.

The simple fact for us is we cant take all our sons half term etc etc off work AND a week ontop as we only get 25days entitlement from work a year!

So the subject of this topic couldnt happen for us..

Just work the system to your benefit. A far cheaper holiday can be had by going Monday to Monday, little Johnny misses school for one day because he was a bit tired after the long journey back from benidorm etc etc

Thats the thing- if its interesting, physical etc then its beneficial. Taking your son to Benidorm for a week of pissed parent/role models, fried food and boredom (for your child) isnt beneficial..

This year we went to lanzarote over easter, flights were 250 each, we went sat to easter sat, father in law paid as I wouldn't pay that much just for flights, last year we did tenerife, went easter Monday to the Monday kids should've been back, flights were less than 600 including bags.
This summer hols our kids both go back quite late in September so we luckily got a cottage down in Cornwall that hadn't picked up on the fact some schools go back later. Think it was 500 ish for the week as opposed to 850 ish the week before.

Oh, so middle classtrackworld type holidays are ok?
Call yhe government and grt them to put a list of acceptable holidays in their maifesto.

hora - Member
I'm struggling to see what 1weeks difference will make in a year.

So no teamwork or covering your work for each other at your company?

<10yrs old what does a missed week mean?

Im sure his friends will pick up the pretend fighter jet duties in the playground of Wing Cmdr Hora II and learning about York can be sorted out by parents who like to show/educate too

Does walking/surfing/biking in cornwall fit the middle class bill? Hope so as our week in lanzarote may have brought our status down a bit.