252000 miles on my diesel. Never use the posh versions of fuel.

Could be wrong but that suggests an older breed diesel. They used to run fine on more or less anything.

The more modern beasts seem a lot more finicky. Personal experience in an S Max is avoiding super market fuels makes it run better, and it took a full service (fuel filter most likely suspect) to sort the previous owners Tesco diesel addiction out properly.

If I have to use supermarkets I’ll put the bare minimum in and fill up with Super Diesel TM at the next opportunity. Otherwise I just use normal branded forecourts and the problems with running have just gone away.

If it’s 95 vrs 97 then it could make a difference provided your car has a knock sensor as these are different fuel specifications.

97 also an idea if you have a Jap import, as their standard fuel is 97 so the car expects it. My Eunos was much happier on 97, but it was only about 80p difference a tank at that point.

If it’s 95 vrs 97 then it could make a difference provided your car has a knock sensor as these are different fuel specifications.

Shell VPower is definitely better than the other premium petrols, my Alfas have definitely had more low rev torque and did an extra 40 to 50 miles per tank on it. No difference on the other premiums.

ginefishin and Turnerguy are both correct,

Standard 95RON not much in it, again bar the additive packs. Detergents are good for the vehicle, keeps deposits off the injectors and also off the psitons (which can cause det).

As i mentioned earlier, Shell V Power is a different base gasoline, that i can assure you. The diesel also used to be, but this stopped a couple of years ago. Over on the continent however, Vpower diesel is different!!

just to add some clarity on the Petrol side of things.. Depending on your car, it will have a number of “maps” on the ECU. you will generally have a poor fuel map (lower octane rating), typical (95) and premium (98-100). Various sensors will adjust accordingly, but this is normally on higher premium vehicles. Import cars from Jap are generally mapped on 97+, some on 100 as it’s quite common out there.

I know a fair few who use Diesel Rhino with regular diesel as it works out cheaper than the premium diesel, increases the Cetane rating and cleans out the fuel system. They have been pretty happy with the results. I keep meaning to get round to ordering some, but have not yet.

Our TT gives us about 10% better MPG with posh fuel, and it’s a tuned engine – so makes sense to put good stuff in it. It helps if you regularly service the car, and use cleaning liquids as appropriate. i.e. keep your engine in good health, and it will benefit from the premium fuel additives.

Over on the continent however, Vpower diesel is different!!

That explains why it costs 1,45€ compared to most other “high end” diesels,which cost around 1,20€.

Not used it as yet. Wait until I get given a fuel card to borrow/abuse….

Sui, do you know if it’s true that Shell V-power doesn’t have ethanol added?

It was recommended on classic motorbike forums for not rusting tanks out.

Either way, My motorbike (old 2T) only gets shell v-power, as I’d like to maximise the time between re-builds!

decent (non supermarket) fuel

Utter rubbish. Do you think they stand in the control room at the refinery and have a conversation along the lines of “this batch is going to Tesco, put them cheap hydrocarbons in…”

No.

They might potentially pour more soap into it but that’s about it. Giving the car a damn good thrashing from time to time will do wonders for cleaning any muck out.

DPF? Needs a decent motorway run at least once a month.

Forensic types can identify fuel back to the different suppliers/retailers, if the fuel itself is the same this would imply that there is a notable difference in the concoction of detergents and anti-foaming agents added.

Sorry for delays chaps,

sobriety, yes that’s correct, though it may be changing. It’s becoming harder to not include bio elements due to the RTFO ruels. It used to be, that you could offset one stream against another, but you now have to have individual accounting.

Flaperon, you are correct to a point, but remember that the hydrocarbon element is accompanied by a bio element of often questionable quality.. Also, Some hydrocarbon elements are questionable as not all fuel is blended at refineries!!

It’s becoming harder to not include bio elements due to the RTFO ruels.

😥 Which means rotted through tanks on classic vehicles, guess I’ll have to start pre-mixing…

Well, I completed a 56 mile journey this morning at 44mpg. I filled up with BP Ultimate 1 mile from here, I shall let you know what happens on the way home.

“Flaperon – Member
decent (non supermarket) fuel
Utter rubbish. Do you think they stand in the control room at the refinery and have a conversation along the lines of “this batch is going to Tesco, put them cheap hydrocarbons in…”

No.

They might potentially pour more soap into it but that’s about it. Giving the car a damn good thrashing from time to time will do wonders for cleaning any muck out.”

please have a think about what you have just written…… more of ANYTHING to bulk up the fuel means less actual FUEL . i want FUEL not bulk. i buy 25 litres of DIESEL from the pump i dont want 22litres of Diesel and 3 litres of “soap” as you put it – my car doesnt run on soap.

sobriety – Member

Which means rotted through tanks on classic vehicles, guess I’ll have to start pre-mixing…

Not easier to just line the tank, petseal or whatever?

Theoretically yes, but I’ve read of them still rotting in areas missed byt the petseal/damaged in some way. It’s just a pain in the arse, especially as bioethanol does bugger all to help the environment anyways.

Yeah, that’s fair, it’s an extra hassle

(forget about classics, I had to petseal a ’00 Suzuki!)

…my car doesn’t not run on soap…

It won’t run when’s it’s full of shite either. Your the kind of person that doesn’t oil a chain arent you….

Errr , im the one against supermarket fuel.

More so …”soap” bulking he speaks of in the case of supermarket fuel is actually biodiesel. Nasty shit

because of this thread I buy my fuel from BP today and not my convenient down the road and 8p off/litre voucher Tesco Petrol station 👿

i buy 25 litres of DIESEL from the pump i dont want 22litres of Diesel and 3 litres of “soap” as you put it

Based on the after market additives the ratio is more likely to be 24.9975 litres of diesel and 2.5ml of ‘soap’.

Jap???

Really? 2015 and Jap is still being used?

I always run 2stroke in my diesels – namely a 1991 Defender and a TDCI Mk7 Transit.

The Defender will run on pretty much anything but it is quieter when running 2so, the Transit doesn’t have the best reputation for expensive high pressure fuel pump failures which then take out the injectors and contaminate the whole fuel system so sticking 300ml in a full tank is hopefully cheap insurance. Again it is quieter when running 2so.

Jap???

Really? 2015 and Jap is still being used?

I apologise if any offence was caused, purely an abbreviation for the country of origin. Next time I will use the designated JPN Alpha-3 ISO code and be sure to capatalise 🙄

“Based on the after market additives the ratio is more likely to be 24.9975 litres of diesel and 2.5ml of ‘soap’.”

when i said “soap” in inverted commas i was referring to the content of biofuels ill be honest…… the term soap was coined earlier by someone taking a guess at what was in the fuels other than hydrocarbons.

7% of 25litres is 1.75 litres.

MSDS for diesel and ultra low sulphur diesels.

Normal Diesel sold in the UK:

2. Composition/information on ingredients
Ingredient name
Petroleum distillates- % by weight 99
Contains: naphthalene- % by weight >1
May also contain small quantities of proprietary performance additives.
3. Hazards identification
CAS #
68476-34-6 91-20-3

Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel sold in the UK:

3. Composition/information on ingredients
Ingredient name
Petroleum distillates- % by weight 90
Contains one or more of the following biodiesels: soybean oil, me ester
Fatty acids, sunflower-oil, Me esters >1%
Fatty acids methyl esters >1%
Fatty acids, vegetable-oil, Methyl esters rape oil, me ester >5%
Fatty acids, canola-oil, Me esters fatty acids, tallow, me esters >2%
Contains one or more of the following renewable diesel: Fuels, diesel, C9-18-alkane branched and linear >1%
May also contain small quantities of proprietary performance additives. >1%
CAS #
68476-34-6
Varies 67784-80-9 68919-54-0 67762-38-3 68990-52-3 73891-99-3 129828-16-6 61788-61-2
1159170-26-9

strikes me that super duper diesel is probably just “diesel” as we used to know it and city diesel is the shit you dont want. anyone come across a filter with diesel bugs living in ?

You can ignore the MSDS’ to a point, they are generic based on what is typically found. However, to give you an idea of how things do change,

Diesel Supplier A, on day 1, was supplying a 6.5% bio diesel (fully EN590 compliant). On day 5, Supplier A was supplying diesel with just 3.3% bio (fully EN590 compliant)

The reason is down to economics (cost of Bio vs hydrocarbon) vs RTFO trade-off (cost of complying vs penalty).

Other considerations (as already mentioned) – the grade of Bio varies drastically within the UK. At the moment the UK source is predominantly UCOME (used cooking oil), with a bit of RME, SME and Palm thrown in. Durin the winter months, palm will be phased out as it goes solid at +5c. When UCOME becomes hard to get hold of, or there is a glut of RME on the market, the supply will be heavily RME based, seldom SME due to it’s inability to meet spec.

However, not all retailers/distributors use the same source, so the Bio type does change a lot, especially between regions. Agricultural Diesel (which is just normal diesel anyway with a red dye in it), is almost always FAME free..

Shell VPower is definitely better than the other premium petrols, my Alfas have definitely had more low rev torque and did an extra 40 to 50 miles per tank on it. No difference on the other premiums

This is the case with my Alfa too and, oddly, seems to give better economy in dynamic rather than normal mode 8)

The reason is down to economics (cost of Bio vs hydrocarbon) vs RTFO trade-off (cost of complying vs penalty).

Sui, does that mean with falling oil prices, supermarket fuels might actually increase hydrocarbon content and therefore be a bit more ‘SMAX compatible’?
I’ve no idea of the relative costs of UCOME vs real as to how far it mighjt have to fall to make that even likely.

brassneck – yes, until a politician or environmentalist figures it out and slaps further fines on. We’re at a breaking point right now, some reclaimed bio (i.e. waste) is worth “double points”, so it takes a lot not to use it! What i’d be more worried about is smuggled fuel, whilst its a huge issue in Ireland it also happens on the mainland here – tankers getting swapped over and all sorts!

Returned exactly the same mpg on the way home using BP ultimate. Maybe is takes some time to clean those injectors.

I *think* it takes a little while for the ECU to adjust, some say a tank or two.

I noticed the difference on 2nd tankful of posh stuff, must take a while to adjust, clean and help (sorry not very technical)

Not convinced. I’m a 70l tank and a half through now, and I’m averaging exactly the same – 44mpg – as I was before.

I’ll try a tank of V Power just for the purpose of a test, but it won’t be long term as I need the Nectar points from BP for next Christmas.

Off the back of this thread I thought I’d try using branded stuff for a bit ,normally I fill up at tesco.

So far have used 2 tanks of Shell and currently on a tank of BP diesel all the normal variety.

Results so far, car feels identical in every way to when I use the Tesco stuff mileage is no better/or worse and feels the same whilst driving.

Admittedly its a 10year old low powered Turbo diesel so not in a high state of tune(Pumps out a tarmac shredding 65bhp) so more powerful cars or those with newer engines with more emission gear on them may behave differently.