Ok, thanks for clearing up. I think i will just wait for the 456 as I see no reason why it can’t handle what I want to do with it 😀

It’s been confusing and stressful ha ha, but I am finally done and am sure going to pick up the 456

You really won’t regret that choice, now you just need to decide on a size…
Take it easy now that you’ve made up your mind, go find a group to ride your local trails with, and ride them.
You’ll soon be learning all the gen & lingo (& skills) you need to be able to make an informed choice for your next bike (after the 456)
FWIW I find it stressful just choosing a tyre! 😯

Glad you’ve got some clarity Matt, ignore DTF. He’s stereotyping you as wanting what many other teenage MTBers ride. Dirt jump bikes are fun, like a big BMX (I had one) but they don’t go up hill very well!

If you get a clearer idea of a type of riding you are into and want to specify then take the bargain bundle of parts off the 456 and get another frame in the future.

By the way most of the people here are 30+ (40+?), very into their bikes and and come across as snobby…. but on the whole know a lot and are willing to advise. Watch your spelling, expect criticism and welcome! I think you may be the youngest here. I thought I was a STW nipper at 27, I feel all old now.

Use the search on here to hear what people say/do with their 456, it’s worth reading up a little. You often get topics like: “show me your 456” which are good places to see people’s setups. A lot of people have bought the frame and built them up so there’s variation which reflects the versatility. It’s more of a tough bike than a light one, which you need for chucking about confidently.

The raw frames look awesome 😀

Have a look at a few bikes – what visually takes your fancy? To me, the visual aspect is just as important as the ride.

Take a look on PinkBike – there are literally thousands of combinations of bike specs – one frame might be matched to 20 different forks, all making a difference in how it rides.

Instead of dropping £1.5k on something, how about you buy a base second hand bike, with the intention of swapping frames/forks over the next year or so. You may go through 4 frames…

You may prefer a short-travel XC bike, a long travel hardtail, a short travel full-sus, or a long travel full-sus. Maybe a slack head angle, ultra wide bars or skinny semi-slick tyres. We can’t tell you which one to buy…

Previous ones I have owned since 2006 (just to give you some inspiration!) … you may notice some parts get transferred between the frames..

Orange Crush ’07 -> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/5690776/

DMR Trailstar -> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/4296824/

Spesh Pitch Pro ’08 -> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/3951123/

Merlin DJ -> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/2780844/

Marin Mount Vision ’00 -> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1659440/

Spesh Enduro ’05 -> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/2805436/

Spesh Langster ’10 -> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/5287754/

Sintessi Bazooka ’98 -> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1726654/

24seven Cro55er ’06 -> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1332352/

Pace RC500 R2 -> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/1431431/

Current bikes…. (which I can’t see me changing any time soon… despite their age!)

Orange Patriot ’00 -> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/7770232/

Orange 222 ’02 -> http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/7864331/

And I have a Haro 300.3 ’11 BMX…

I am 18 myself, people here think I am 40 and have a beard just because I ride a singlespeed, I ride a SS because I am a student therefore skint, but on the upside physically capable.

I like STW because people on here have an opinion, sometimes it’s full of crap but most times genuinely good information, and people still answer even though you have asked the same question for the millionth time.

Oh BTW mattamomo there is a lot of sarcasm, piss taking and banter round here. Don’t bite, if you do anything genuinely wrong the mods will drop you an email.

Which 456 we getting this guy to buy? Only the Carbon 456 X9 is available to buy now, with the steel X5 coming out in May? Correct me if I am wrong.

It is only available in may, but it seems i may aswell wait and make sure i advance a bit on my old x-rated before i hit the bigger trails with the 456
Ans thanks for clearing up, i got confused for quite a while there

What’s on-one’s record in delivering on release dates?
I remember Ragley struggling. Don’t know about on-one, but I’d hate to think of someone missing 2 amazing months of the year (may/june) because of a delay.

matt, is this your first time on any internet forum? Do you and your mates not engage in banter? Do you need a smiley putting at the end of any sardonic/sarcastic/humourous/satirical post?

there are lots of long term regulars here, and lots of recurring questions and themes (such as “what tyre?” threads). The stereotypical STWer is 40, works in IT, rides an Orange full sus and a steel hardtail (and I tick 3 of those boxes 🙄 ). New members are welcomed but there are plenty of people who like trolling, and when someone turns up claiming to be new some people suspect it is an old member with a new account.

DLT’s post about the On One site was a send-up of the typical STWer as much as it was of the typical Pinkbike gnarl rad to the power of max teenage downhill warrior and all the funnier for it.

The 456 is a great bike/frame, performs beyond its price and holds its value.

Middle aged, works in IT, rides an Orange, and drives an Audi is the stereotypical STW member.

I tick 3 of them.

Again thanks for clarifying, I just thought i did something bad/ against the rules.
Thank for helping on the bike choice,cant wait till i get the new ride now 😀

And for the record, it’s not the first one! ha!

Dialled Bikes Prince Albert or Alpine as an alternative to a 456. or a Cotic BFe.

And for the record, it’s not the first one! ha!

I’d rather be middle aged than drive an Audi… 🙂

Dialled Bikes Prince Albert or Alpine as an alternative to a 456. or a Cotic BFe

They are all frame only, so you’ll have to build up them yourself.

Might throw a spanner in the works here but:

Another option would be the ragley blue big:

It has a better fork a Revelation RL as opposed to the Sektor R on the 456. Since you are 16 I doubt you will weigh over 73kg, therefore you will need to buy a softer spring for the sektor coil fork, where as with the revelation you adjust the spring hardness with a shock pump, since it is an air fork. With the Revelation the damper will be more composed on rougher terrain too, take it that the Rev has a lockout too?

The drive train and shifters are better, on the ragley, however you could/probably will replace these as they wear out.

The brakes are Avid elixir 1s on the 456 and elixir 5s on the pig. Most people dislike avid brakes because they are a pain to bleed amongst other things, therefore I would recommend you get some different brakes, Shimano SLX are good.

Simply put 456 X5 has a nice frame, with the fork being decent, brakes and drive train bearable, but they can be upgraded, but I recommend you try out the brakes if you like them keep them, otherwise replace with SLX, why not sell? they are avid elixir 1’s worth very little about £30 each second hand.

Or you could get the Blue Pig, which also has a nice frame, a Good fork, good drive train, decent brakes, but I recommend you strip them off and sell them, and replace with SLX.

Muckytee- I am not confident could perform changes like you suggested, so if I was just going to buy and ride one, should I go for the 456 or the blue pig. I am sure i could adjust suspension though
If it is the blue pig I should in fact go for could you suggest where I could get a 162 frame model?

http://www.muddybumbikes.com/m1b20s2p579/RAGLEY-Blue-Pig-X7-Complete-2012

Matt, to save you alot of hassle, go and ask on the Pinkbike forums instead. You’ll be talking to people your own age. Fair enough, their spelling and grammar may not be upto much, but they’ll recommend you a good bike for doing jumps and downhill on.

There recommendations will be based on their own experience’s of riding dirt jumps and downhill (something that most STW forum members have never done), rather than based on what makes the most financial sense.

Honestly, if you turn up to a jump spot on a carbon 456, you’ll get laughed at.

Honestly, if you turn up to a jump spot on a carbon 456, you’ll get laughed at.

I’ve never been laughed at on my steel one, I get more ridicule on the BMX!

On the basis he doesn’t have a car, has never been to a downhill track or even a trail center and want’s a bike for riding about in the woods and posted a link to Swinely as an example of the kind of stuff he’s interested in a downhill bikes going to be a bit of a lemon, especialy if he takes to the dirtjumps!

I’ve never been laughed at on my steel one, I get more ridicule on the BMX!

Are you 15 though? You’re reiterating David’s point, you get laughed at on a bmx because you are too old for (although i don’t think you are), Matt on the other hand would get laughed at for a carbon 456 because he’s too young for it(see above). i think the 456 is a good bike for a beginner who wants to get into non specific mountainbiking, But his first video suggested he wanted, essentially, to get into dirt jumping and there’s little doubt pinkbike know more about doing that on the cheap and i doubt they would be recomending a 456.

I would get the Blue pig. CRC click

The Blue pig will allow the OP to ride gnarr, in his local woods, whilst being strong enough for him to do 6ft+ jumps and drops off right?

If you want to do Dirt jump, that’s hitting a place like this:

To do jumps and tricks. Then no, a 456, Blue pig, or a DH bike is not what you want. You will need a Dirt jump bike.

If you want to do all of the above, a compact hard tail with an adjustable fork is what you need.

I would agree on NOT getting a 456. It really is a (no offence) STW hardtail.
At your age I would be looking at bikes like the Charge Blender, look, here is what they do well…

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2gs214G7gw[/video]

The Blender is a fantastic steel hardtail with great ‘ragging’ geometry. I’ve ridden downhill tracks with mine, taken it round trail centres and on xc rides and also ridden street with it, it does it all.

HERE.

If I recall, you live in Devon. Get yourself along to Tavistock bikes or somewhere and go and sit on a few bikes. Deffo go to Gawton and Tavi woodlands and ride there and ask some of the riders what they think.

Above all, I think the type of riding you aspire to is better served by sites such as Southerndownhill and Pinkbike and you will get very different advice from there.

Incidentally, I’m 38 and ride a Blender… 😆

Kayak- that video is EXCACTLY the kind of places i ride, and i wll not be looking to do dirt jump like in the photo above.
I couldent find a video like the one you posted but that is a great representation of what im looking to do.

Well there you go then. Something like a Blender will do you nicely and allow you to progress your skills until such a time as you want to add a full-susser to your collection.

And I take it Gawton and Tavi woodlands have some good downhill riding?
Is there any others who agree with getting the Charge Blender?

Gawton is fantastic. They have 3 brilliant tracks of varying difficulty and are just adding a fourth one. There is also an uplift service available(I think). Great place, wish I lived nearer.

Tavi woodlands is supposed to be great too but I have not visited it myself.

You also have Southwest extreme which is down near Bideford somewhere. Its got a 4x track, some wood and some jumps and that.

I may take a trip up to Gawton with a few mates, can you rent bikes there? as none of my friends really have a suitable bike.

So there is a lot of good places to justify buying a good bike as well. Thats great to know

Not as far as I know at Gawton itself.

Dartmoor Cycles hire bikes

Ooh, I like that Charge video. Has a Cove Stiffee been mentioned yet?

Would tavistock Bikes rent bikes for the day?

Also is the Charge Blender suitable for my height if i am mid 150cm

FWIW I hated the blender, but then I’m 6ft and the blender is a tiny bike. Thought it felt more like a jump bike that could do some XC whereas the 456 and similar bikes are XC bikes that can jump.

Just get the one you like the look of, if ON-One made a marketing video it’s probably look exactly the same, so would specialized, giant, trek, mongoose, GT, Lapierre, Sunn, Rose, Canyon, Cove, Devinchi, etc, so don’t be swayed by the marketing, most of the guys in marketing videos could ride a shopping bike and make it look good.

Not entirely sure what people are getting at with the “your 16 you need a jump bike, 456’s are for old people” argument, I bought a DMR Switchback at 17 for that kind of riding, and the 456 is pretty similar, and TBH better.

Ok, i will give it some thought before i buy, looks like the blender, 456 or pig

Buy whichever is cheapest and in stock now. Easy!

Yes, the blender is a relatively small bike but the OP would be fine I’m sure.

The age thing is a bit general I know but at the same time its fairly certain that the OP would get different advice on the likes of southern downhill than here.

Simply go and try some bikes out in some shops…

I knew this thread would be a long one 😆

The Blender is only 100mm travel, the chap in that video could ride a rigid 24″ wheel bike and the results would look pretty similar. I don’t think people have backed up their suggestions.

From all of the advice there is a strong promotion of steel hardtail frames. They are more comfy than their aluminium chums as they have a bit of give and a slightly springy ride.

Many of us have had or currently have a long travel steel hardtail, these have 130-150mm fork travel and include the 456, Blue Pig, Cotic Soul, Cotic BFe (Cotic are expensive), Dialled Prince Albert (very nice bike but sold as frame only) and many others. Genesis bikes are also worth a look at, the Latitude is a good all round steel hardtail.

There are different types of steel, many are made with Reynolds tubing. The higher the number the lighter & stronger it is. It is available in 520, 725 and the very fancy 853. Tange is a different brand which is what Charge and other brands use. On-One DN6 is probably comparable to Reynolds 520. 520 is 4130 BMX cromoly which is good steel.

You get either air or coil spring forks. Air is more tuneable to your weight and terrain. Coil is smoother, heavier, less maintenance but tuned by literally changing the spring inside.

Hydraulic brakes are a must, and anything in your budget should automatically come with them. Shimano are great and easy to maintain. Avid (elixir etc) are more fiddly and use a less friendly fluid.

Both Sram and Shimano make good gears/shifter/chains/cassettes. SRAM x5 or Shimano Deore is the basic standard, x7 or SLX is the next up (quite a step up in performance/weight), x9 or XT higher and x0 or XTR for racing level. X5 or Deore is perfectly adequate! 9 speed with 3 front rings was normal, more and more people are using 10 speed with 2 or 3 chainrings. For bikes ridden predominantly over hard ground a single front ring with some sort of device is common to stop the chain from bouncing off.

100mm forks are more conventional/olders style with the current jump bikes having either rigid, 80mm or 100mm forks. You set a fork to be around 25% into it’s travel to maintain contact through rough ground, with more travel there is more fork to adapt to the terrain and further to absorb landing hits.

Read up a bit about steel hardtails, look on the On-One, Ragley, Genesis and Dialled Bikes websites to see what the manufacturers say and how they build each up. You will see similarities and differences based on the intended use of each.

Good luck!

Undoubtedly this will all be disagreed with by someone any minute

Ok, the blender looks very nice aswell, i will test ride it if i can find one somewhere

Someone else talking sense – a charge blender, totally forgot about them. They look ideal.

Things that make the 456 less than ideal:

Long chainstays
Long top tube
Long forks

What you want is something the opposite of this. i.e. shortish top tube, shortish chainstays, shortish forks (theres obviously a balance to be struck) You will find the bike is more manouverable with these attributes and you”ll find it more fun to ride and easier to learn the basics on like jumps, bunnyhops, manuals etc. etc.

Herman, possibly the single most informative post I’ve ever seen on here. I have therefore flagged it to the mods as inappropriate.

To the OP I had a 456, I replaced it with a Dialled Alpine only because 853 steel is to old gits what carbon is to you youngsters. The Alpine is another frame-only long travel steel hardtail, is highly rated by owners and brings out the 12yr old in me. And that includes dirt jumps 😉