On the subject of safety concerns vs. job security in the rail dispute – think about it for a second and you’ll realise the two are not mutually exclusive.

There *can* be a conflict of interest. That’s why Unions aren’t responsible for safety, the regulator is. The Union’s responsibility is, quite rightly, the T+C’s of their members.

One of the reasons we are all feeling hard done to is the change from RPI to CPI as the measure of inflation by the UK government in 2003. CPI/ RPI are different measures of inflation, and are used to calculate ‘cost of living’ wage increases in both the public and private sectors. CPI generally runs at around 1% less than RPI, and has been doing so since 2003 (this is a huge generalisation mind).

Since 2003 we’ve been getting steadily ‘poorer’ in relative terms. This manifests itself in a general underwhelming feeling of not being properly remunerated.

I’m not surprised to see established staff suprisingly (to some!) leaving companies and teams, to take advantage of zero hours contracts, or moving companies to ratchet up their pay.

We undoubtedly have a race to the bottom approach in the public sector for which the price will be significant in years to come. Whilst Mr Average may care little based on a perception of overpaid underworked civil servants et al he will bemoan the reduced quality of those services when the impact fully filters through and it’s going to take years to remedy.

Recruitment of quality employees is becoming much harder in the public sector and retention post extensive training is a major issue. We’re struggling to recruit maths teachers and it’s not because they’re overpaid with excessive holidays.

Stop striking and get back to work..

said the troll posting on STW during working hours

BA pilots are positively rolling it in.

[Citation needed]

Also, thought it was Virgin, not BA…

Has anyone noticed how every single union leader, no matter who they’re representing, sounds like they’re doing a Reggie Kray impression. Do they breed them in a little colony in Bethnal Green?

What alternative do people that have seen their wages eroded, working conditions made much worse, pensions go south and all the rest of it actually have to negotiate with except a strike? I’ve never heard a decent answer to this question from those opposed to this type of action.

Before you slag off BA pilots, please get your facts straight!

1. We aren’t striking
2. I’m certainly not rolling in it. Don’t believe everything the Hate Mail tells you about pilots wages.

Before you slag off BA pilots, please get your facts straight!

1. We aren’t striking
2. I’m certainly not rolling in it. Don’t believe everything the Hate Mail tells you about pilots wages.

Apologies – that was me – I got my Virgin pilots and BA aircrew mixed up.

You must be doing it wrong though – I have a friend who is a Virgin pilot (which makes my error inexcusable) who is rolling in it relative to the average Joe. Well rolling in it if you count kids at private school, an audi on the drive and a pony in the paddock as doing well monetarily.

What alternative do people that have seen their wages eroded, working conditions made much worse, pensions go south and all the rest of it actually have to negotiate with except a strike?

I believe the correct answer is to seize their entrepreneurial spirit, educate themselves, take advantages of all the opportunities this meritocratic, egalitarian land of milk and honey provides, maybe move to a studio flat in Hoxton, buy some skinny jeans, set up their own web development agency, and become a self-facilitating media node.

“What alternative do people that have seen their wages eroded, working conditions made much worse, pensions go south and all the rest of it actually have to negotiate with except a strike? I’ve never heard a decent answer to this question from those opposed to this type of action.”

The alternative to striking is to be more productive. Striking doesn’t help them in the least.

I think they should strike more often then award the Union leader high salary for a job well done.

The workers should also demand more pay increments.

They should also apply wild cat strike to make things more interesting.

I say not enough strike …

Labour and Lib Dem should lead the strike too.

outofbreath – Member

Striking doesn’t help them in the least.

Well that will explain why Aslef drivers are only on £50k – I always did wonder.

No doubt if they didn’t ever strike they would be on at least double that.

.

binners – Member

Has anyone noticed how every single union leader, no matter who they’re representing, sounds like they’re doing a Reggie Kray impression.

You mean like the leader of Britain’s largest union Len McCluskey ?

So Reggie Kray was a scouser right ?

.

Every time I visit STW I learn some new fascinating facts. Today it was that train drivers are on shit money ’cause they strike and East End gangster Reggie Kray was scouser.

I wonder what tomorrow will bring.

binners – Member
Has anyone noticed how every single union leader, no matter who they’re representing, sounds like they’re doing a Reggie Kray impression.

If I were a union leader I could be anything you wanted me to be so long as I have nice handsome pay cheque at the end of the day.

so far this year we’ve had
Teachers(standard)
Tube drivers(standard)
Doctors(unprecedented)
Paramedics(unprecedented)
Royal mail (standard)
Train drivers(standard)
Prison service(unprecedented?)
Pilots on a work to rule(virgin)

Any I’ve missed?

How about Swissport baggage handlers at Heathrow
And British Airways cabin crew

It’s Virgin pilots, not BA as someone up above said, that are working to rule apparently.

Theres also the fire men and women,

other parts of the privitised health services, cleaners/porters etc,

Lots of small companies are also feature strikes,

then theres the univercity staff ,

and lots more, all fighting and strugling to maintain their ground/wage/skills and differentials from other groups of workers.

Without conflict their wouldnt be class, and with out class there wouldnt be conflict.

Convert – how much do you think a senior pilot (15-30 years experience minimum) responsible for the safe passage of 300+ pax and 15 crew around the world, who had to pay £80-100k for his own training, should be paid? Granted it is more than factory workers (my dad) but certainly a lot, lot less than most professions.

argos delivery drivers working for Wincanton

and now

Weetabix workers to strike after christmas.

outofbreath – Member

The alternative to striking is to be more productive

Not sure if serious…

“We’re going to treat you badly at work”
“Fine- I’ll be more productive”
“Um, OK. In that case I’ll keep treating you badly”
“Sorry, can’t answer, working too hard…”

so far this year we’ve had
Teachers(standard)
Tube drivers(standard)
Doctors(unprecedented)
Paramedics(unprecedented)
Royal mail (standard)
Train drivers(standard)
Prison service(unprecedented?)
Pilots on a work to rule(virgin)
Any I’ve missed?

When did Royal Mail go on strike or are you thinking of the Post Office ?

Convert – how much do you think a senior pilot (15-30 years experience minimum) responsible for the safe passage of 300+ pax and 15 crew around the world, who had to pay £80-100k for his own training, should be paid? Granted it is more than factory workers (my dad) but certainly a lot, lot less than most professions.

What I think they should get paid is irrelevant. I understand an experienced BA long haul captain is on north of £100K. Am I wrong?

This is irrelevant though – go back and look where I made the first comment. It was in response to another poster claiming industrial action was the only way to keep jobs above food bank levels of pay. Pilots (and all the others on the list of folk involved in high profile industrial action this year) are someway off that.

When did Royal Mail go on strike or are you thinking of the Post Office

royal mail sorting offices, eg accrington

Convert – fair enough. I bit, so apologies.

The productivity and wages of all of the above groups is being squeezed, whilst the executive levels in the businesses profit from their loss. I’m pretty certain this is common to all of the unhappy industries.

Through all of this, just remember that ordinary people aren’t members of unions. It’s some kind of mutiny of preverts.

Do you not have weekly / fortnightly bin collections like the rest of the UK?

No, 3 weekly on non recyclable waste, fortnightly for recycling.
Bolton next door is 2 weekly, but have ditched normal sized bins for narrow bins for all that were originally for single people in flats.
I have never seen as many rats in my life since Nick Peel foisted that brainchild at a cost of 3 million on the population.

“We’re going to treat you badly at work”
“Fine- I’ll be more productive”
“Um, OK. In that case I’ll keep treating you badly”
“Sorry, can’t answer, working too hard…”

Lol

As much as many in the public sector may be striking over pay, terms and job security, a lot of it comes from the underlying frustration at not being able to do their jobs properly due to ill advised cuts.

certainly a lot, lot less than most professions.

Really?

?The Guardian (a UK newspaper) stated that in 2013, airline pilots were the 2nd highest paid profession in the United Kingdom earning an average of £78,356 ($126,000 / €99,000), a year.

(http://www.flightdeckfriend.com/how-much-does-an-airline-pilot-get-paid)

Whereas the current average UK wage is approximately £27k. That you’ve paid for your own training is irrelevant – you knew this before entering the profession and clearly decided that the potential earnings mitigated this; most graduates are now saddled with comparable debt, yet are unlikely to reach these earnings.

so far this year we’ve had
Teachers(standard)
Tube drivers(standard)
Doctors(unprecedented)
Paramedics(unprecedented)
Royal mail (standard)
Train drivers(standard)
Prison service(unprecedented?)
Pilots on a work to rule(virgin)
Any I’ve missed?

One of those wasn’t to do with money though (primarily)

One of those wasn’t to do with money though (primarily)

Was that the teachers?

not being able to do their jobs properly due to ill advised cuts.

Just one letter missing there

Was that the teachers?

No it was them screws. 😛

I work for Royal mail although we have not yet been on strike this year I fear we will be doing soon. There’s a huge amount of bullying towards staff from management.
I am all for a business moving forward with the times but bullying in the work place is unacceptable. I am all for strike action!!!!

Stagecoach Bus are striking on wirral from jan the 4 for a few days, and i support them they need better pay for the responsibility of driving a large bus full of passsengers

they need better pay for the responsibility of driving a large bus full of passsengers

Is that because when they took the job they were just driving a small bus with no passengers?

There used to be 2 groups of pcv driver big bus buses with more than 16 seats, and small bus driveres driving buses with 16 or less seats, eg converted vans, thankfully theyve mostly gone now, the strike is about no payrises , lower wages for new starters, and more responsibilities, shift chnges etc.

New DOO services amended calls yesterday as some stations not authorised for DOO, guards will be on trains from late afternoon to early morning due to low lighting levels at the smaller stations (ie it’s too dangerous to let the drivers close the doors in these instances, so exactly what the unions have been saying) and some drivers were having to get out of the cab to check it was clear as the screens were obscured by the sun at certain points during the day.

It’s not like Southern have had a year to plan this, almost as if the argument is more important than the implementation.