colp – Member
You can’t go wrong with a Trek Session,

You really can – Trek chainstays tend not to e up to much.

jimjam sorry, your advice is poor. Or biased (do you now sell only trail bikes by any chance?).

I have had two sub £1k dh bikes, neither has required work. They have taken my riding to another level completely. I have taken a 150mm bike to the alps and it was scary/horrible. I’d never do it again; DH bike all the way.

The first DH bike cost me NOTHING, selling it for the £900 I paid (albeit stripped). I decided it was too small. My current bike cost £800 and it’s amazing fun. If I sell it again I might lose £300 over the course of 2-3 years riding. Basically, much cheaper than you think.

Agree with comments above, it’s a compromise trying to press a 160 bike into proper fast dh duties. Get the right tool for the job and it’ll feel like a light has been switched on in your brain.

I guess it comes down to fun or fast?

The “best/fastest” bike for a job is not always the most fun..

I know a few guys who are excellent DH riders, and have had DH bikes for years, but now just own a long travel, do it all trail bike. The common issue being they actually want to ride back to the top of runs, and not push.

That said, if you’ve never had a DH bike before (like me), I can’t see how 200+mm of travel, super slack forks and massive grippy tires could possibly fail to be fun. 🙂

glasgowdan
jimjam sorry, your advice is poor.

I have had two sub £1k dh bikes, neither has required work. They have taken my riding to another level
Get the right tool for the job and it’ll feel like a light has been switched on in your brain.

Just to re-iterate. I’m saying he should buy one. If it’s an itch he needs to scratch, then the only way to satisfy that craving is to buy one. But in my experience (which is considerable) it may end up getting very little use, and not being much faster than what he currently has. People have a perception more travel will instantly yield more speed – I think it’s a placebo effect.

You say that an old DH bike has taken your riding to the next level and it’s like a light has switched on in your brain. Do you think the op would be better served spening £1000 on an old dh bike, or £1000 on professional coaching? Serious question.

I have taken a 150mm bike to the alps and it was scary/horrible. I’d never do it again; DH bike all the way.

it’s a compromise trying to press a 160 bike into proper fast dh duties

Just to address your other points/questions. Yes I did (no longer selling) mostly sell Enduro/AM bikes because they are more versatile, and their limits are somewhat more accessible making them almost as fast, but feel faster than a dh bike, but you also have the option of sticking some heavy rubber on them and going and winning a dh race on them.

I’d have to speculate that you’ve not ridden a well set up 150/160mm bike if you didn’t like it in the alps or weren’t confident on a dh track.

glasgowdan – Member

I have had two sub £1k dh bikes, neither has required work.

Which is great but you have to accept, there’s a good chance they could have done (unless you got to test it in person but even then it’s possible to miss an expensive issue). It doesn’t necessarily imply a bad or dishonest seller either, I’m pretty sure the guy who sold me my boxxers honestly had no idea they weren’t right.

DH bikes just by their nature get used hard, and often they get used infrequently too, and those both bring issues. And at the bargain end, things do sometimes see less TLC/servicing, because servicing a fork and shock can be such a chunk of the value of the bike. (and because, well, people who want to spend as little as possible on a bike also often want to spend as little as possible on servicing too).

That applies to any used bike Andrew.

Jimjam not sure most enduro bikes would genuinely fare well against dh bikes on most dh trails. Maybe you’re a much better, race-winning, rider than me and the OP but there’s no way a dh bike ISNT going to help an average rider ride dh trails more confidently, pick smoother faster lines, clear obstacles, hit bigger drops/jumps etc. Most of the guys I ride with have got dh bikes in the last year and they’ve all improved.

whether to spend a grand on a bike or coaching – that’s another question and not really relevant. You could say the same about any bike spends… don’t get new plusher forks, get coaching instead. Don’t pay for uplift days, get coaching instead. Don’t get new tyres or switch to 1×10; get coaching instead! 🙂

it sounds like we agree but have gone off on a tangent from the original question.

glasgowdan

it sounds like we agree but have gone off on a tangent from the original question.

I know myself I have a very circular, rhetorical way of conveying my opinion, so appologies. I’m at the other side of things, everyone I know who has, or had DH bikes have all gone away from them. Now riding the exact same trails on 160mm bikes and having more fun as they get unsettled just that little bit easier than a DH race bike, so the sensation of speed is very very similar, if not exaggerated. However, I am saying this with hindsight having owned a few dh bikes. Perhaps if I hadn’t, I would have always wanted one. Which is why I say op – get one. Just be realistic in your expectations as to what it can do.

At a lot of Irish DH races guys are just turning up on enduro bikes, winning categories, getting podiums etc so the gap is getting narrower.

The common issue being they actually want to ride back to the top of runs

It’s do-able on a recreational DH/FR bike. Make it easy to pedal not necessarily lighter/weaker but less draggy

Do it meself can get a lot more runs in 🙂

Alot has to do with where you are riding. I’ve taken my Heckler to a FOD uplift in mid winter as I knew the DH bike would be a slog. I wouldnt even consider taking my Heckler to Revolution in Winter, its hard enough on a DH bike in the dry.

At a lot of Irish DH races guys are just turning up on enduro bikes, winning categories, getting podiums etc so the gap is getting narrower.

does that mean you need some actual DH courses? It’s been a while but I never saw anyone on a trail/enduro bike win a pearce round for example.

mikewsmith

does that mean you need some actual DH courses? It’s been a while but I never saw anyone on a trail/enduro bike win a pearce round for example.

In some instances it’s down to the track, certainly. There are one or two of questionable quality, but most are proper dh tracks. Plenty of uk elites and even wc racers show up at Irish dh races from time to time.

The reason people are showing up on Enduro bikes is because elite privateers who are choosing to race Enduro and DH can’t afford or justify 2x bikes at £5,000 a piece unless they are very well supported so they end up with an Enduro bike since you can race dh on that, but you can’t race enduro (competitively) on a dh bike.

there’s no way a dh bike ISNT going to help an average rider ride dh trails more confidently, pick smoother faster lines, clear obstacles, hit bigger drops/jumps etc. Most of the guys I ride with have got dh bikes in the last year and they’ve all improved.

I agree with this, assuming the bike is ridden regularly. I’ve seen loads of people struggling to guide a DH bike down a track, as they are not used to the bike and the terrain.

Yes, downhill bikes can give you more confidence to hit drops, gaps and more difficult lines, but IMO in order to get a big bike working well (angles and suspension) it needs to be ridden at a certain speed.

I imagine it’s a bit like having a race car and driving it on a public road. Probably great fun to put your foot down in a straight line for a few seconds, but really suited to going fast round a track. In order to really enjoy it you’d need an open course and be able to get the tires warmed up and be able to thrash it in the corners.

Both are specialist tools and need to be ridden/driven a certain way to get the best out of them. Most people would be better of with a 911 which is good on the road and on the track.

glasgowdan – Member

That applies to any used bike Andrew.

Oh yeah, absolutely- though I think more for downhill bikes especially at this price point. Normally I’d have said they go out of fashion faster too but I suppose the bike industry’s managed to bring super-fast obsolescence to trailbikes now as well…

Re dh racing, IIRC there was an inners SDA round won or at least podiumed on an Orange Blood a couple of years back and IIRC Drew Carters won one on a Five 29er. Not usually the most intense of tracks, your SDA inners rounds but still. Mitch Gruffalo’s had a couple of decent attempts at world level races on an enduro 29er, and not just pmb

You really can – Trek chainstays tend not to e up to much.

No problems with ours so far, and they take a regular hammering in Leogang.
Also, if you watched this year’s Rampage every other bike was a Session.

colp

No problems with ours so far, and they take a regular hammering in Leogang.
Also, if you watched this year’s Rampage every other bike was a Session rider was sponsored by Trek.

I’ve quite enjoyed sitting back and reading through these opinions and advice. All much appreciated!

I’ve never started a thread which has provoked another thread before! I’m honoured jimjam. I will watch with interest. It’s a bit off my original question, but still a valid point to raise.

Perhaps just to clarify what I’m after…

Last year in the alps I did the Chatel River Gap on my Blur, next year I would like to have a look at the Road Gap there and some of the other larger features. I’m sure a skilled rider could hit these no problem on a trial bike, but I’d rather be on something a bit burlier and with more travel as a slight safety net at this stage in my progression.

I did one DH race at PORC last year. I quite fancy doing a whole race series next year. For the size of most of the jumps and drops etc my Blur was fine, but over the rough stuff at (my mediocre) race speed I was getting shaken around more than I was comfortable with.

There are quite a few local DH runs not too far from me such that I’d likely do a push up day at least every over weekend.

I was edging towards a FR bike, something of the genre of a Kona Entourage (since someone mentioned one already) I am looking for something more fun than fast. But most of the advice seems to be towards a full on DH bike.

I did one DH race at PORC last year. I quite fancy doing a whole race series next year. For the size of most of the jumps and drops etc my Blur was fine, but over the rough stuff at (my mediocre) race speed I was getting shaken around more than I was comfortable with.

There are quite a few local DH runs not too far from me such that I’d likely do a push up day at least every over weekend.

In that case yes for sure, get one. As I said in my first post you’ll get the most out of a dh bike if you do a race series. I would urge you to spend a bit more money though as there are some real heaps out there. The uplift/power hose method of maintenance seems pretty popular with some riders.

I was edging towards a FR bike, something of the genre of a Kona Entourage (since someone mentioned one already) I am looking for something more fun than fast. But most of the advice seems to be towards a full on DH bike.

Best avoided. They are very heavy bikes, about 40+lbs if I recall, so I doubt they’d be the lively gazelle people imagine . If you’re lugging that kind of weight around it might as well be a dh bike.

For what you describe yep. Just don’t get a crap one 🙂

I was edging towards a FR bike

Best avoided. They are very heavy bikes, about 40+lbs if I recall, so I doubt they’d be the lively gazelle people imagine

I picked up my friend’s specialised sx trail
I tried to pick up my friends specialised sx trail once. It was a heavy beast. I thought a FR bike such as this might be more fun to ride and easier for someone like me to adapt to.

smatkins1

I thought a FR bike such as this might be more fun to ride and easier for someone like me to adapt to.

I think the difference in adjustment would be negligible/debatable. I would speculate that if you were doing a race series on one you’d quickly start looking at the bike again and asking where could it be improved, especially if everyone in your category or your close competitors are on race bikes. I ordered a few for customers, none of whom bought one when they rode it.

I did a few races on an SX trail with Totems and I would have been glad of some dual crowns to help with the rock gardens and harsher sections. I don’t believe the bike really held me back that much, but I had it in my head that it was.

I don’t believe the bike really held me back that much, but I had it in my head that it was.

I think this is where people confuse their limits with the bikes, and some poeple get condecending about it.

A DH bike will probably never be slower on a DH track, that’s not to say someone else won’t be faster on a BMX, but your* limit on the BMX would probably be carrying it and sliding down on your arse.

I turned my Pitch into a 32lb ‘mini-dh’ bike, it was great apart from the shock blew 3 times (twice for me and again for the new owner imediatley after I sold it). But that just meant it got used a infrequently as a DH bike, but wasn’t as good as one. A few times I’d find its/my limits, but then youd see a youtube of someone else on one and be blown away. A DH bike would be ace, £800-£1000 and be sensible on pinkbike.

*like a royal we, that’s not aimed at anyone in particular.

I went from a Santa cruz Bullit (fr frame) as a DH and Alps bike to a 224 and I do not regret that one bit. If you want to ride down stuff (and not have to ride up much) a DH bike will be great fun for what you describe. I could use my Bullit for trail triding if I was feeling fit but the 224 out descended it everytime, and that is the important thing. For downhill riding (with lift assistance!) I would go for a DH frame everytime!

Saying that I have a friend selling a Scott Voltage for 600 and if it wasn’t large I would have been buying it right now!

Get a DH bike – fantastic fun. A based in SE if you want to try mine (:

Cheap Plug!
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fs-kona-operator-2013-dh-bike-1499?replies=1#post-6498493

I just find myself at the bottom of DH runs on the big bike thinking “holy sh*t I got away with that”, along with big grins. I can’t get the trail bike up to those kinds of speeds without being bucked way beyond control.

I’ve had a hankering for a pukka DH bike for a while, but i realise, deep down, that i am in no way capable of riding it hard enough to do it justice…………

Hardly anybody is – just get one and try it