a fool and his money....

Of course it could be the other way round and you have rational fears whilst on the bike, and irational confidence whilst driving.
What you need is a 3rd party to verfiy if you are rubbish mtber and therefore you can feel happy about your confidence issues, and a 3rd party to verify that your a crap driver with over-confidence issues. Then at least you know which issue to address.

Your talking to a Yorkshireman here. I investigate all mechanical issues fully before then tell the garage what I think it is (thus lessening the chance of lengthy hours diagnostic bills) 😆 8)

Ianmunro, I could reel out half the mtb community on this. My driving skill isnt great either. Its just that I have no fear or worry at all behind the wheel whereas on the bike..

Try having a couple of big crashes in your car and then you'll have the fear when driving and when riding...

...Actually don't - I wouldn't wish that on anyone and I'd hate for you to damage your Forester. 😉

a poll on whether Hora needs to see a shrink ....must resist must resist

Before I did my first (and only) solo 24hour race I spoke to a mates girlfriend who was a trained sport psychologist. She carefully explained that I should break the course down into small sections and only focus on completing each section. That way I would get lots of small positive achievements rather than being daunted by the whole thing. Seemed good advice and actually helped during the race. She then went on to say 'Remember, it is only 4 hours' I corrected her and said it was 24 hours to which her response was '24 hours?!? Your f*cked!'

That was less helpful

I get the fear while out riding, usually at the very last point of being able to stop at a drop off.

The way round it? One of the lads who I ride with on a more regular basis spent some time guiding/DH stuff and generally being g-narly. Anyhoo, after a little chat of "Jonathan, dont be such a lord, the faster you go the better and push your weight back" to which i'll follow suit and generally I survive.

Do you know anyone who is a better rider than you? (that isn't a G-Narly 'dude') (resulting in much more mocking and being told you are less-stoked or something)

Perhaps a cheaper way to help with your irrational bike-fear? (ie free)

As it happens, i'm the same, feel pretty damned happy behind the wheel and if the car was to step out of line, i'd feel confident to act in a way appropriate to the situation without any consuming fear.

edd, I was in a car that somersaulted and ended up on its roof (I still have a patch of hair thats thinner than the rest from the roof lining and no I wasnt the driver). I've been rear-ended (at speed/I was stationary) in my MX5 and I tore a tyre off a Honda FRV over the moors (car slid wide). A few near misses from other drivers (someone on a motorway getting out of shape when trying to drive round a truck that changed lanes at the last moment).
Like I said, [u]Im not a good driver[/u]- Im not alluding to that [u]in anyway at all[/u]. SERIOUSLY- my gears are sloppy, obersvation/fwd-planning could be alot better/sloppy really- like everyone. I just dont panic at all, nothing. If anything everything seems clearer, calm. Theres a very real risk of death/disability in a car. WHY cant I feel relaxed (tense, very tense) on a bike? I'll approach something that I know I can roll (have done previously) yet I lock up and almost fall down.

hora - try pretending you are someone else or that it is on TV. Sounds silly but you know the guys on TV won't crash so if you pretend to be one of them you won't crash*.

*Only use this technique on stuff you have done before. Just because you have seen someone do a back flip over a 40 foot road gap on a DVD does NOT mean you can do it.

[b]Do you know anyone who is a better rider than you? (that isn't a G-Narly 'dude') (resulting in much more mocking and being told you are less-stoked or something[/b]

YEP! Makes me very tense before we even start the ride.

🙄

Thinking. Its not only a couple of the good riders (Good to talk innit), when I ride alone I dont feel any pressure or tense. True, I still get the occassional brain-freeze but its less severe when I do have the 'off' rides. Im not tense on the bike (i.e. RIGID) and I start the ride slower, spin up/warm up gradually- allow myself to get up aerobically before I start into the ride proper.

There is only one solution then.

Valium.

Take a wedge before the ride, and then you won't get tense, and if you crash, you won't care.

see, no risks at all:

😉

Few years ago. We were sat by the lake near Les Gets in the evening and we drank a few tins each. I was wearing flip flops but on the way back I rode bloody quickly down some rooted bits/singletrack. Its tension isnt it? Why am I soo tense on the bike? Instead of psychology should I look at professional tuition or focus on stress?

Sounds like the fear to me.

Beer
'herb'
Valium
Hand-Shandy

Dr Jonathan's advice (you can try all 4?)

Take caffeine tablets and speed before each ride for the next 4 weeks. When you stop taking them next month you will feel much more relaxed

[i]Sounds like the fear to me.[/i]

Yes, I need help 'unlocking' it. Its irrational, kinda hit myself on the side of the head with anger/frustration. Like theres alittle demon in there you know you can get out. Help.

Edit. Im stressed even before I get on the bike. Im worried about my fitness, slowing people down, impressing them (kinda compounding it by worrying before even before the ride).

Have a chat to a sports shrink if you feel it's what you need, the mind is a funny 'ol thing.

Honestly, if *you* feel that a chat with a sports therapist person will assist your plight to try and work with/deal with 'the fear' then get it done.

I had some Cognitive Based Therapy (thank you my one and only permanent job for the health-care scheme!) because I had some 'issues' with certain things, sure, it cost the company I used to work for a few hundred quid, but, it helped loads! (or I feel it helped loads)

Best you don't try and 'sort yourself out' pre-ride/on the trail anyway, can't see it being a good idea 😉

jt

This is, quite frankly, a bizarre idea and I presume you are trolling. 😉

You do not ride a bicycle particularly well. This is attested to by a large number of people on here, there are photographs of some truly epic mincing, and you yourself admit you are not any good at it. The same points can be made about a large number of us on here. Luckily, you do not have to do it. You do not make a living from it. It is [i]supposed[/i] to be fun.

If it isn't fun, take a rest from it. Do something a bit different.

Then come back to it fresh next year. Aim to start again in February 2010. Maybe have a couple of hours tuition or something. Watch some technique films, read some books, try and drum in some methods and attitudes.

In the meantime, do not ride the mountainbike, do not buy parts for it, stop reading magazines and take a break from this forum. Ride your road bike until you can sprint uphill in your big ring. Go hiking. Take up rock-climbing or kayaking. Do some yoga. Learn to play the oboe. It doesn't matter.

But seriously, consulting a sports psychologist because you are a middle-aged weekend warrior with no natural talent or learned skill on a mountainbike is completely out of proportion.

🙂

I've had indirect experience of sports psychology, whilst coaching in another sport. It works! And not just for the sport itself - it can benefit other areas of your life

In the meantime . . . some people find singing useful! Either aloud, or just in your head, depending on who you're riding with

I'll resist the urge to suggest a suitable song

Mark. you need professional help. you admitting there is a problem is a step in the right direction however i feel that your self diagnosis is way off the mark.
help with your aspergers/ADHD/bipolar disorder/compulsive shopping/being an attention whore/sociopath needs treatment.
it's available on the NHS you just need to ask.

BigDummy, I hear you and agree to a point as well. Its erratic, some rides I am smooth (and more important flow)- get the buzz, then the next ride can be me angry with myself. One example- theres something called 'Steep steep' on the North Downs- I rode it last year without checking or bothering with it. A couple of weeks ago (with the same riders) I just wouldnt ride down it- went to the right which is called 'John Steep' and LOWERED [u]most[/u] of it. you can imagine what was going through my ****ing head- the frustration at myself?
Ps. Steep steep is loose and abit steeper than John Steep of course!.

give up mtb and stay off stw - doubly sorted

How about reading a book on NLP Neuro Linguistic Programing, Waterstones have a selection - cheaper than a sports shrink!

Neuro Linguistic Programing. Will do. Sorry if I come across as an attention-whore. Its a combination of this is the only forum I 'seek' attention on (only use one other forum which is a non-biking one anyway... unlike some who probably post on numerous sites).
I dont take myself seriously and I wear my heart firmly on my sleeve.
I could leave if Im not welcome here though.

we are here to help. it's just sometimes the truth is a harsh reality.

Why did that happen on 'Steep steep' and 'John Steep' though Gary? Nothings changed physically for me- see my point?

I could leave if Im not welcome here though.

Has he gone yet?

maybe you ate too many of bingo's doggy chocs?

hora - how much time do you spend on the bike compared to the car?

I've been doing some all day rides this year plus extra cycle commuting - it's really helped dial in my feel for the bike, it's also meant I'm driving a lot less.

hora - my dad is a sports psych, his specialism is motorsport but anything with wheels he's into.

Calls himself [url= http://www.alphasportpsychology.co.uk/ ]Alphasports[/url]. By all means drop him a line if you seriously interested.
(edit - sorry about the state of his website. Web design is not one fo his strengths!)

He's been after psyching my mtb brain but I won't let him! Not really my bag. But he's certainly done good stuff with my brother's drivers (national kart champion last year) and the Jaguar GT3 team.

I think you need to line things up a bit. You seem to get in car crashes quite a lot. Do other people in the car scream when you have them?

I've seen that before where people don't really understand the gravity of driving a car and just how much damage can come out of it being done badly. I've seen people have what could have been extremely bad near misses and get out laughing. Not through relief, but through not understanding how nasty it could have been, it seemed funny at the time. Re-address your lack of road understanding to match that of your cycling and then you'll be afraid of everything.

Then all we need to do is address the fact that you're just a big old cowardy custard.

Maybe you simply need a bike with more reassuring handling. There's usually a good reason if you're not feeling safe on the bike, and it's wise to pay attention to that feeling.

Try a 29er.

However it could be as simple as drinking too much tea/coffee on those days you get that feeling.

Don't advise hora to buy a new bike!

I drink alot of coffee normally, ride days I drink a caffitiere in the mroning.

Im not buying a new bike. Its my head not any bike thats wrong, its my mindset. I'm still mulling over what Samuri said. My driving is starting to turn again. Drive slow, ride fast.

I think i've found the solution.
[img] [/img]

If you do go let me know what they say as I have exactly the same problem and cant afford a psychologist 🙂 Would happily flick my car round a wet bend sideways at 60 and chuckle it off as entertaining (and yes, Ive been in 2 hefty smashes, neither my fault!) but put a 2ft jump in front of me on a bike and I'll grind to a halt. Put a 5ft DROP in front of me and I'll ride right off it no probs - how odd!

FFS, do I have to come in a sort out Hora's psychological issues again? Remember the last time, with the 'libido' issue. Hora (sadly, that thread got pulled, for some reason)?

You have issues with your self-esteem. You say that you're fine, on your own, but rubbish when out with others?

This points towards you not feeling adequate, around other people, speshly men. You are trying to measure up to them, and compare yourself with them, too much. Hence the 'oh look I've got a big libido/dick' posts you often make.

You're fine; you are no different to the vast majority of other people. The problem lies possibly in your job, or home situation; certainly, an area of your day to day life. You are made to feel inadequate and inferior. Is your GF a very dominant person? Your boss? Maybe you accept this as 'normal'. And therefore do not question it.

The lack of confidence around others possibly reveals your desire not to be inadequate, in a situation where you're away from that which brings your esteem and confidence down in the first place. So, you accept being 'inferior' in your job, or at home, but desire to be the 'man' you want to be, outside that/those situations.

I've noticed your lack of confidence on here. You appear to laugh things off, but i sense a deep vulnerability within you; you constantly seek assurance, but are unsure of how to get it, in a positive way. Bit of banter on here is a poor substitute for really being made to feel good at something.

You need support and encouragement. Therefore, you need to involve yourself in some kind of activity, where you can get that. What stuff are yoou really good at? What areas of life/activity, do you excell at, where you are better than others? Maybe you need to find, and concentrate on these aspects of your life, rather than pursuing activities where you feel emasculated and undermined.

I think you may need to look at the deeper issues that affect you, before you can deal with your confidence problems.

Give the doctors a call; make an appointment, talk to someone professional about stuff. you need to confront your demons, before yu can exorcise them.

And stay away from that Binners. He's mean and nasty, and a big bully.

Riiiight. I think what he's saying hora is that you are an under-the-thumb girly-man who can't get it up and is relentlessly bullied.

🙂

Practise the areas you have fear of and master it. Practise the areas of mtb you have issues with. Don't just ride, if it's cornering get someone who really knows how to ride to asses you and practise a corner a million times. If it's a car work on that. Fear is down to confidence, once you have improved your skills, seen improvement, you will have less fear.

Oh my dear God, I've read it all now. Amatuer psychology at it's finest. I've printed that tripe off and passed it round. Thank you from us all RB, it was quite a giggle

Thank you Solamanda.

No worries barca! 😉

Shooduv seen my 'Hora's libido problem' one. Now that was a real gem...

If I could control my Libido I'd have alot of excess energy on my hands. Not sure if that is a good or a bad thing.

If I could control my Libido I'd have alot of excess energy on my hands.

No.

Just, no.

Hora, sorry if this has been posted before but i havent read all the other posts in this thread,

i sometimes get the 'fear' worried about slowing people down, bottling on easy stuff etc...- the best thing for me when this happens is to get out and ride on my own, at my own pace. just takes the pressure off and lets me get back in the swing of things/ reminds me why i ride.

good luck mate - i know its frustrating!

Get a riding buddy to give you a slap every time you start mincing, that way you'll fear the slap more than the trail obstacle. Said slap could be physical or it could be a good old slagging/pisstaking in the finest traditions of weekend warriors up and down the land.

There are some aspects here that I am nodding to. Recently Solamanda- Ive never had tuition but sometimes it feels 'embarrising' that its stuff I should know by now. Daft- but pride will be swallowed.

Mrcrushrider- AGREE.

Im stressed even before I get on the bike. Im worried about my fitness, slowing people down, impressing them (kinda compounding it by worrying before even before the ride).

Sort of been said already but sounds like your in a self perpetuating loop. Either take a break from riding or try something different like a skills course

You're fine; you are no different to the vast majority of other people

have you met Hora?

Everyone goes off the boil. Some people quicker than others. Some people get back into the groove quicker than others too.

There are a few things you can do.

Ride as much and as often as you can. You won't get better on a bike sitting on the sofa. Getting out three or four times a week and riding some moderately challenging terrain (whatever that means to you) will have a huge effect.

If I can only get out for an hour on a week night I tend to practice flat fast corners, drops, getting my foot down - hooning about. It all adds up.

Always try and ride the things that scare you. Don't just ride them once and breath a sigh of relief - do it repeatedly. Session them (awaits ridicule for use of outlawed phrase).

Ride with people who are better than you. Imo this is one of the best ways to improve your riding - talk about these things on the trail and get better riders to demonstrate how they tackle a certain feature over and over.

Learn to fall off. It happens to everyone. There is a knack to it, if you can grasp this it's half the battle. If that means switching to flats and messing about on the nearest grassy hill then so be it.

Seriously, try reading NLP it's good for many things!!

Improves one's 'inner game' to quote one of many terms used in NLP.

Ya no bother hora

P

I'd say if it's your head that needs sorted out, then go sort it out - if you can't do it yourself, get help (be it sports psychologist, CBT, NLP, etc.)
I guess it depends how much of a problem it is for you. If it gets to be crippling, then I'd say money well spent - changing your mindset positively in one area of your life can have a knock-on effect in others.
This comes from someone who has been undergoing counselling for a wee while now. I know it's not quite the same, but it's helped me address my fears (in a number of aspects in my life) - and I think made me much more confident on the bike as well.

Right. Got this...[i]
Neuro-Linguistic Programming for Dummies[/i] hope I havent bought the wrong NLP book.

Sleep well, eat well and train (core fitness etc). Oh and laugh too.

Fatigue easily too but not if I had my list of stuff.

Let myself go so I'm on a diet and crap at hills.

2morros ride I'll be mostly attacking/crawling up some hills till I'm dead.