You’re the joke that just keeps on giving aren’t you?

I do try….

If the rails are clear, could you not improvise and take advantage. No imagination you southerners. Mollycoddled, see….

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiUdtxe2YnU[/video]

Unions are using the strike to draw a line in the sand regarding single operator trains, as they see an erosion of their members jobs, that’s their function.

Southern trains get paid regardless, so are effectively being used by DfT as patsies to try to break union, they will paint this as union intransigence regardless of what is actuallygoing on behind the scenes, as it’s in their interest to have hoards of disgruntled passengers mouthing off.

Could have been resolved, neither side has an interest in seeing that happen . Passengers caught in the middle

– Southern/Thameslink is run on the basis of “we, the government, will pay you to run this franchise, we will keep all profits”.

As such, there is precisely zero incentive for Southern to back down, compromise, or indeed actually run a single train. However, they cannot be accused of putting profits first!
As the recent thread said, “I was not aware of that”
Makes sense as to why this feels like the government picking a fight then – and why the union is resisting so hard

Me too.

Went through the selection process for a job as a train ‘manager’ for Virgin a good while ago.
Very well paid, but a commensurate level of responsibility in emergencies.

All of the people who were selected at the end of the second day were ex forces, police or emergency services.

It’s not just collecting tickets.

The Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union said on Wednesday its ScotRail members had voted by 10 to one to accept a revised offer from ScotRail Alliance where drivers will open train doors, but conductors will oversee closing them.

Southern has threatened to sack its conductors unless the RMT accepts the terms of its eight-point offer by Thursday, which would change the role of conductors to “onboard supervisors”, paying them a £2,000 bonus to accept the change.

Mick Cash, the general secretary of the RMT, said he believed the deal with ScotRail Alliance could be a model for a settlement with Southern.

On Tuesday, the RMT said Southern had rejected an attempt to start talks on the issue at the conciliation service Acas, and the firm was insisting it would only hold talks on implementing the driver-only operated trains policy.

“Our members have backed a deal in a referendum ballot that is a major victory in the fight to stop the compromising of rail safety through the extension of driver-only operation,” Cash said.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/oct/05/scotrail-dispute-resolved-staff-accept-deal-guards-southern-rmt

I have no issues with Unions taking up specific fights or cases, but fighting against progress is never going to be winner.

For those that think Arriva in South Wales are bad do you not remember when it BR, complete sh*te.

nah, cos I’m not old.

Yes, yes, but thats not in the epicentre of the whole ****ing universe South East, is it? So nobody cares

hahaha too right! Forgot i’ll eff off then

Well, no, that just shows total ignorance of what’s actually going on, and that’s the problem. This isn’t just “slightly ropey service lol”.

Take Wrexham, town of 61,000 people. ATW station, with an estimated annual entries/exits of 537,962. Current departures shows two trains being 2 minutes late, everything else on time. Doesn’t sound like a bad service to me?

Horsham, population of 56,000. Southern station, with an estimated annual entries/exits of 2,841,200. Next train due to depart Thursday morning. About 1/4 of these will be cancelled. Then there are none at all on Friday again.

If theres no trains on Friday, then why not just go to the pub for the afternoon? You sound like you could definitely benefit from an afternoon in the pub. Go mad… call in the bookies and put a few bets on, on the way there. Then maybe a fight outside the kebab house later, on the way home?

Do they have bookies or kebab houses in Horsham? I bet theres loads in Wrexham. I bet the kebab shops do cheesy chips too. Mmmmmmm…. cheesy chips

come for a ride tonight, you can pretend it’s The North, sky is certainly grim enough…

I’d prefer to have someone other than the driver on the train in an emergency

Seriously why? What’s one person going to do that can’t be done by automated systems and the people on the train?

If theres no trains on Friday, then why not just go to the pub for the afternoon? You sound like you could definitely benefit from an afternoon in the pub. Go mad… call in the bookies and put a few bets on, on the way there. Then maybe a fight outside the kebab house later, on the way home?

Mrs njee20 is 9 months pregnant, pub isn’t a popular option right now, nor is my inability to get home when required!

Seriously why? What’s one person going to do that can’t be done by automated systems and the people on the train?

This. What about all the services that are currently unstaffed? Are they less safe? Do you always check before you board a train that there’s someone else on board? How often have you needed them?

come for a ride tonight, you can pretend it’s The North, sky is certainly grim enough…

That’s actually very tempting! Already have plans though cheers – capitalising on being home at a sensible hour for once!

So if someone in a toilet pulls the distress cord it stops and the driver deals with it? Who puts ou the wheelchair ramps at unmanned stations?

Someone like this?

Saying that, the sun’s come out now. 8)

Have the guards been sacked yet?

It’s all I’m (and many hundreds of thousands) of Southern Train users are interested in.

Tossers.

Mrs njee20 is 9 months pregnant, pub isn’t a popular option right now, nor is my inability to get home when required!

Pfft! Amateur!! Is this your first? everyone knows that theres nothing a pregnant woman appreciates more than being brought a kebab in the early hours. Bring cheesy chips too, delivered with the immortal line “d’ya know wha? I fuggin’ love you, you fugger!….” and you’ll be elevated to hero status on Mumsnet!

Trust me on this. ….. Its a win/win for everyone involved. The guards of Southern Rail have handed you a golden opportunity, yet you casually spurn it? You sir are a fool! And an ungrateful fool, at that!

So if someone in a toilet pulls the distress cord it stops and the driver deals with it? Who puts ou the wheelchair ramps at unmanned stations?

In which case the Conductor’s job is essential and therefore safe whether he controls the doors or not. Which makes it fairly hard to understand what the fuss is about.

So we can have driverless cars, but trains? No way too many variables with a train, on tracks….

Trust me on this. ….. Its a win/win for everyone involved. The guards of Southern Rail have handed you a golden opportunity, yet you casually spurn it? You sir are a fool! And an ungrateful fool, at that!

😆 well done, I’ll give you that!

Have the guards been sacked yet?

It’s all I’m (and many hundreds of thousands) of Southern Train users are interested in.

They were told they will all have their contracts terminated on 1st January, although there is a new contract waiting for them if they wish. I don’t know if there’s been any more on that though.

Trust me on this. ….. Its a win/win for everyone involved. The guards of Southern Rail have handed you a golden opportunity, yet you casually spurn it? You sir are a fool! And an ungrateful fool, at that!

😆 well done, I’ll give you that!

Have the guards been sacked yet?

It’s all I’m (and many hundreds of thousands) of Southern Train users are interested in.

They were told they will all have their contracts terminated on 1st January, although there is a new contract waiting for them if they wish. I don’t know if there’s been any more on that though.

With the increase in passenger numbers and simultaneous fare increases over the past 10 years it’s incredible that the operating companies can’t still make a profit / need to make people redundant.

This must be costing some big businesses in London as their personnel can’t get in, surely they can ask their mates in government to sort it out?

What about all the services that are currently unstaffed? Are they less safe?

Yes.

I know of two suicides locally at unmanned stations.
Personally I’ve had to restrain an incredibly drunk woman who wanted to do the same and work with a chap who witnessed a young drunk girl, larking about, fall in front of a train before he could get to her.

I was on my own, but the incident my colleague witnessed had lots of bystanders, none of which attempted to intervene before it was too late.

With the increase in passenger numbers and simultaneous fare increases over the past 10 years it’s incredible that the operating companies can’t still make a profit / need to make people redundant.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH. Jesus wept.

put up them fences that open when the trains in the station. Simples. Sure they have them in London somewhere.

I know of two suicides locally at unmanned stations.
Personally I’ve had to restrain an incredibly drunk woman who wanted to do the same and work with a chap who witnessed a young drunk girl, larking about, fall in front of a train before he could get to her.

I was on my own, but the incident my colleague witnessed had lots of bystanders, none of which attempted to intervene before it was too late.

But we’re not talking about unmanned stations, we’re talking about having someone on the train who no longer pushes a button. The argument being that eventually he won’t be there at all, which is speculation, but given a long enough time frame probably accurate. Stations are something else entirely.

Civil airliners used to have at least 3 people on the flight deck, are they less safe now they only have 2?

Have you ever thought of moving to Wrexham? Its lovely this time of year? And a lot less stressful by the sounds of things

They don’t just push buttons.
As others have explained.

You’re obviously very angry about this and I can completely understand why.

But, you’re currently unwilling to accept that any other view apart from your own has any validity.

Debate is impossible.
Enjoy your day.

I wasn’t responding to the downgrading of the role, I was responding to the notion if having no manning at all.

They don’t just push buttons.
As others have explained.

I’d wholly agree with you, if this were about getting rid of the guards on trains. It isn’t. We can argue all day about whether moving to driver-operated doors is the first step to getting rid of them, but that’s not what is being proposed. Indeed they’re guaranteeing that won’t happen for a period, which is an assurance very few of us can enjoy.

The reality is that on-board safety personnel or whatever will probably become superfluous at some point. As will the drivers. As will lorry drivers, and production line workers and shop staff and so on and so on.

There is a lot of ‘whatabouttery’ going on, which is largely peripheral.

Well if all the predictions about the future were correct we wouldn’t have doubled the people using trains, as has happened, as I thought we were all supposed to be remote-working by now, anyway?

And where’s my hoverboard? Where eh? Answer me that?!!! We should all be on hoverboards!! Not bloody trains!!!! Pah!!!

Precisely. So why are people trying to predict that this is the first step to making on board staff redundant?

….basic economics I guess. Step 1, downgrade the role/remove responsibilities so you can use cheaper staff. Step 2, remove role.

The single most valid point I’ve seen so far is the wheelchair ramp argument. Pretty much all the others you can mitigate….

I was in a train crash in March of this year, on a train staffed by a driver (obvs!) and a guard. Following the crash the guard was beyond useless despite being at the rear of the train when the impact happened and was seemingly unhurt, unlike those of us in the front carriage that took the brunt of the impact. The inquiry into the crash deemed that Network rail were at fault for telling the tractor driver to cross an unmanned crossing and also that the driver had the train 40mph above what it should have been doing when going across the crossing.

Similarly, I was on a train last year going between London and Hastings and a lady opposite me started having a seizure. Despite pressing the intercom to talk to the driver (who ignored us and kept going) and getting the guard (who had no first aid training, no understanding of what to do and no process to follow in the event of a passenger being taken seriously ill), it took three stations before the driver finally stopped, at which point I called the emergency services as the guard refused to (W the actual F!).

As far as I’m concerned, the sooner they automate the whole flipping train system the better. Guards on trains serve no purpose whatsoever apart from checking tickets after leaving Cannon ST, which is a pointless exercise anyway as its all automated barriers.

Between them, the rail companies, the unions, network rail and the government have managed to create a transport ‘system’ that isn’t anywhere near fit for purpose. Following the crash, I’ve not been on a train since (I’ve done nearly 6k commuting on the bike though – win) and I’ll not be going on another for a long while. I pity two of the blokes who work for me though – £4k season ticket and it took one of them 3 hours to get in this morning from Paddock Wood….which is the norm at the moment

My station has London midland, virgin and Southern trains all going to London.
Fortunately I use London midland or virgin, fortunately because even when they are not on strike the Southern trains seem to be delayed more often than the others even though they use the same track for part of the journey.
The other 2 companies seen to run a better service with guards etc.
Yesterday there was an I’ll passenger emergency and a request for any medics on board to help from the guard, so they are kept busy, there’s also a couple of blind people on my train who commute regularly and they help them on and off and arrange for station staff to meet them off as well as wheelchair users. All of this on very busy standing room only commuter trains.

Jobs are changing, automation is a big upheaval, eg less checkout staff these days, but some jobs are still essential.

Southern seem to have a lot of problems, I’m not sure reducing staff is the solution.

The single most valid point I’ve seen so far is the wheelchair ramp argument. Pretty much all the others you can mitigate….

Yes, I’d agree with that. I’ve seen proposals for passengers helping and what not, which does seem far fetched!

Southern seem to have a lot of problems, I’m not sure reducing staff is the solution.

Good job they’re not actually doing that then, isn’t it? 😉

Good job they’re not actually doing that then

yet….. 😉

Is that the sound of speculation I hear?!

I’ll laugh if Southern are the last TOC with on board staff because they’ve been forced into it by the union whilst every other operator just quietly gets rid of them!

I’ll laugh if Southern are the last TOC with on board staff because they’ve been forced into it by the union whilst every other operator just quietly gets rid of them!

youd laugh at people losing their jobs ? 😯

“yet…..”

In which case the jobs by definition can’t be essential.

Is that the sound of speculation I hear?!

Its a privately run train service. Its inevitable.