@andyxxx

you make a fair point, but its actually very common outside the bicycle industry for franchisee’s to operate somewhat independently of the franchise owner

as an another example to my Barbour comment, some years ago I rode my bicycle into a McDonald’s drive-through in London.

I was asked to leave the premises by the management as they would not serve me on a bicycle, despite there being no signage to say as much. I complained directly to McDonald’s UK, and they simply told me the franchisee was responsible for operating the site, and it was not down to McDonald’s to oversee the operation of that site.

I can also think of examples such as CEX (Computer Exchange) in London where only the Tottenham Court Road and Rathbone Place stores are owned directly by CEX UK, the other stores are franchise stores and have no obligation to accept credits from the original stores

On the side of the customer, it would have prudent for the “brands” to incorporate a mechanism for easily compensating their dealers when undertaking warranty work on behalf of other retailers, but it does not work that way in reality 🙁

I also don’t see it being any different from a car – you can take that back to any of the franchised dealers and they will take up the warranty issue with the manufacturer on your behalf (and get full recompense for their time.

Cars are probably the exception rather than the rule. Would you expect to walk into any store that sold sony televisions and warranty one you had bought from amazon?

And even with a car, if it was delivered damaged or faulty I would expect you to have to deal with the supplying dealer.

Would you expect to walk into any store that sold sony televisions and warranty one you had bought from amazon?

I see your point. But the internet is rather a different matter and in your example you know you are purchasing from Amazon (they are not inferring they are Sony)

And even with a car, if it was delivered damaged or faulty I would expect you to have to deal with the supplying dealer.

If you noticed a fault upon collection of a new car I would think that would be the normal route but I have purchased many cars from dealers at the other side of the country and never had an issue with local dealers carrying out the warranty.

I would expect to take a faulty car to any of their dealerships and I would think most people would, say if you had a company car supplied you’d want to be able to take it to the local dealer. Also the bikes we are talking about here aren’t that cheap, its not a £200 tele from Amazon, comparing them to with white goods doesn’t really add up. Also I’m not going to take the tele, fridge, kettle to Scotland and ride it round trails… thats why us punters want bike shops to give us a reasonable response when we have a problem. A solution rather than the brush off, especially if they sell the bike you own.

Are you 100% sure that both bikes have faults ? I have worked in a shop selling Specialized bikes for many years and am struggling to remember 1 bike that came with fork or shock problems out of the box .

You are trolling Ramsey?

No , why do you think that ?

Well, the assumption you are making by asking the question is that the end user has no idea how they should work.

I would expect to take a faulty car to any of their dealerships and I would think most people would, say if you had a company car supplied you’d want to be able to take it to the local dealer. Also the bikes we are talking about here aren’t that cheap, its not a £200 tele from Amazon, comparing them to with white goods doesn’t really add up. Also I’m not going to take the tele, fridge, kettle to Scotland and ride it round trails… thats why us punters want bike shops to give us a reasonable response when we have a problem. A solution rather than the brush off, especially if they sell the bike you own.

You are still not grasping the difference between something delivered that is faulty and warranty work, they are not the same thing. You also seam to be placing some kind of imaginary status on bicycles that you don’t apply to any other consumer goods. To keep comparing bikes to cars, an industry that has a developed a different model of warranty and support to all others, isn’t making a sensible argument.

You have bought faulty goods, you haven’t even allowed the people you bought them from to sort it out, and you are slagging off another business for not picking up the slack. That reflects a lot worse on you than it does on them.

I guess if your TV that you bought from Amazon went on the blink after a week and they sold the same one at Currys, you wouldn’t expect Currys to sort out a warranty claim for you.
That said, I would expect the large cycle manufacturers to have a system in place to reimburse authorised dealers for warranty work, so that the cost of rectifying warranty issues wasn’t placed on the shops.

You are still not grasping the difference between something delivered that is faulty and warranty work, they are not the same thing. You also seam to be placing some kind of imaginary status on bicycles that you don’t apply to any other consumer goods. To keep comparing bikes to cars, an industry that has a developed a different model of warranty and support to all others, isn’t making a sensible argument.

Actually, whether the bike arrives faulty or develops a fault over time, it will still be classed as Warranty work by the supplier. (Same with cars) The supplying dealer would have to put a claim into Specialized or whomever to get their money back for fixing the bike (or getting pre-authorisation to pay the costs to fix it) even if it’s brand new.

Your contract is with wheelies sadly and not specailized.
What bikes were they and what’s acctualy wrong with them

I’m not sure it’s helpful comparing to other industries. In car and motorbike dealers, the workshop will be paid by the manufacturer for handling a valid warranty claim: diagnostic time, fitting time and so on. It won’t be at full labour rate but it’s still income,and assuming the workshop has capacity they’ll be grateful (or should be) for the work.

From above, it sounds like cycle manufacturers might not pay labour time for fixing under warranty: have I read that right? If that’s the case, then you could see why a non-supplying dealer might not want to take the work on on goodwill alone (I know I probably wouldn’t in the same situation).

Paying a non-supplying dealer for the time for warranty work might seem nuts, but if they never made profit on the original deal I would argue it’s fair enough, if they won’t be paid for the time from the manufacturer and you want them to spend time on it…

From above, it sounds like cycle manufacturers might not pay labour time for fixing under warranty: have I read that right? If that’s the case, then you could see why a non-supplying dealer might not want to take the work on on goodwill alone (I know I probably wouldn’t in the same situation).

Yes. Depends on the situation and the manufacturer, but often it’s the dealer who has to absorb the labour costs and the costs of shipping faulty parts back. Fine if you’re the dealer who sold the bike, not so fine if you’re not.

In this case, the Specialized store would have to get that money back from Wheelies – and they may be reluctant to pay up.

Again:

To obtain benefits under this warranty, the bicycle or frameset must be presented to an authorized Specialized dealer on the same continent on which the bicycle was purchased, together with a proof of purchase. Only authorized Specialized dealers are authorized to perform warranty service. Should the bicycle, frameset, or any part thereof be determined by Specialized to be covered by this warranty, it will be repaired or replaced with the most comparable option, at Specialized’s sole option.

Still can’t see why the OP can’t return the Bike to any Specialized dealer – Sale of goods act and any other consumer law is trumped by Specialized’s own FAQ reply.

You would assume, given Specialized statement that they had some sort of in house system where an authorised dealer can raise a ‘ticket’, get approval and complete any warranty work on any bike still under warranty and then have a credit applied to their account.

OP: Your biggest mistake was not telling your insurance company that you want the cash. Wheelies reputation is not the best.

Marko

OP you bought your bikes from a low cost provider. Service is generally correlated to the price you pay and thus the margin they are making. They’ve offered you a solution, the fact they are not falling over backwards to make your life easy is consistent with their business model. This is the choice you made buying from them.

Long story short, got two Specialized bikes as insurance replacements via the insurance companies cycle providers.

Jam. Read the OP before you reply.

Marko

Mostly as a shop we do not get paid for the labour on warranty work.

And if the issues with the bikes are pdi related ? Then that has nothing to do with specialized anyway

I think the statement Marko has pasted is pretty clear

Id just take a printout of that to the dealer of your choice

I can understand the situation better now Esher_Shore has explained it. Still don’t necessarily think it’s right; if a retailer is carrying <BikeBrand> (legitimately, not grey stuff of course) then I think they should also take on the same responsibilities as the car dealership example; fix it on behalf of <BikeBrand> and then <BikeBrand> sorts out payment, etc., back to their franchisee. A company that offered a good warranty and a good warranty service would be high on my list.

The one thing I’m definitely not OK with is having to pay to have bikes rebuilt as a result of a warranty claim. Still irks me from years ago when a rear swingarm was faulty. The shop / brand sorted a new swingarm but the strip down of the rear of the bike, and rebuild (including new cable) was not. Meant that I ended up paying out to have a manufacturing fault rectified, surely this should be on <BikeBrand> to pay incidental costs? Without there being a fault I’d have had no need for the work so why should I have paid?

fix it on behalf of <BikeBrand> and then <BikeBrand> sorts out payment, etc., back to their franchisee

And that’s the biggest problem – often the brand doesn’t pay fully for the labour, or even at all. Recently I had to do some warranty work on some recumbent tricycles – at least an hour’s work on each to swap some faulty parts, and the manufacturer has credited me 25 Euros per trike. But that’s fair enough, that’s part of the deal of being a dealer for them.

But isn’t this a case of market forces? If <BikeBrand> want a shop to carry their brand, yet are known for being a PITA when it comes to paying reasonable/any rates for doing warranty work, why do shops agree on those terms?

Of course, if everyone’s offering the same then you have no choice, and there are surely other reasons that may be of equal or higher importance as to why you as a shop owner want to stock <BikeBrand>, but I still can’t understand why the consumer then pays the bill?

Or rather, I can, because just like in my case the shop refused to do the warranty work until I agreed to pay for labour and incidentals so it was either pay up or DiY on a job i had neither tools nor expertise to do. Over a barrel, in other words.

If it happened again i’d definitely be tempted to involve trading standards. I was younger and richer back then.

But isn’t this a case of market forces? If <BikeBrand> want a shop to carry their brand, yet are known for being a PITA when it comes to paying reasonable/any rates for doing warranty work, why do shops agree on those terms?

Various reasons. Because they’re prestige brands which shops want to stock, is probably the biggest.

I can’t speak for other shops or brands, but I would never make a customer pay for a warranty repair or replacement. The key word, though, is “customer” – if someone came to me with a bike they’d bought elsewhere, from a brand I sold, then we’d have to have a chat about who’s paying for me to do the work.

On the other side, I do quite a bit of mail order. On the rare occasion someone’s had a problem, I’ve been more than happy for them to go to their local decent shop to get it repaired, and I’ll pay the shop’s bill.

There’s a lot of give and take here – there are loads of other decent shops around the country, we’re generally happy to help each other out (I just sent a specialist tool down to one shop to borrow). Wheelies aren’t really like that, they’re parasitic on the insurance replacement business, making a lot of money by undercutting decent local shops. Much less inclined to help them out.

Wheelies have built a very successful business of being the preferred insurance provider for much of the UK insurance industry, as well as operating retail premises, cycle to work scheme and their ride to school scheme (5% kickback to the school), they also operate Treadz and Giant Swansea.

This is why we always charge customers for insurance quotes, we know darn well we are not going to see their business for a new bike (its happened way too many times in different stores I’ve worked at), and that customer will often arrive at some point in the future with their new bicycle, complete with a Wheelies sticker on the down tube.

Wheelies is Giant’s largest UK account, by some way.

We do see some business from Wheelie’s customers because the bikes are often sent in boxes, not a proper PDI. We’d charge £40 for a safety check with a follow up check included after a few weeks, the customer will often send Wheelies the bill or just foot it out of their own pocket because they want their bike to work properly. We’d also charge that customer for bike fitting if needed, as Wheelies have not figured out how to do that down the internet;)

In a number of stores I have worked at over the years, management has agreed to take on warranty work for other dealers, in the hope that the customer then becomes “our” customer. I can think of very few instances when this has actually brought any money in the store with many of these customers never gracing the store again once their FOC warranty has been turned around.

When you retail a brand, you often look carefully at their warranty support and reputation for manufacturing issues / quality control by doing your homework. If a brand is taken on, and has a run of serious problems, and poor support, its not uncommon for the retailer to drop that brand the following season.

I have also worked for a UK distributor that had to drop 2 brands due to ongoing problems with warranty due to design flaws and quality control issues, we had a warranty rate of nearly 75% in 1 season on one of these brands, which cost us a lot of time, money and aggro, and ended up having to move many of our customers to a completely different brand we distributed at our cost.

Without naming names, I can think of a number of small brands that have cost dealers money by leaving them high and dry with piss poor warranty support often from small UK distributors, and angry customers waiting months for resolution. Some of these cases went legal with trading standard, small claims or solicitors getting involved which no one wants as it just increases operating costs.

If a customer has bought their bike from our store, and had a warrant issue after 14 months that was deemed valid, we’d never expect them to pay even if it required a complete strip and rebuild, its part of the cost of retailing that brand. But if the bike has come from another dealer, and the brand will not cover our costs (many do not want to volunteer to pay another dealer when they know the original dealer has to deal with the claim FOC) then we won’t do it for free.

Sorry if this has been mentioned already (can’t be bothered to read the entire thread)
I’ve donkeys years of experience in the cycle trade and can vouch that Specialized customer service and technical back-up is outstanding.
Also any Specialized dealer who wants to offer good customer service would be able to help resolve your fork and shock issue without too much fuss at all so long as their costs are covered. Just make sure you are armed with your proof of purchase (or in your case insurance paperwork)
If your fork and shock are Specialized units then Specialized would arrange collection of the items from any Specialized dealer and you would just have to cover the shops labour for removal and re-fitting of fork and shock.
If the fork and shock are Fox or Rockshox ANY bike shop could send them straight to Mojo (fox) or Sram Tech (rockshox) for a warranty repair. You would be expected to postage and labour costs but to save money you could remove them from the bike yourself.
When I worked for Evans we would deal with warranties for anyone regardless of where they bought things from. It takes 5 mins to call a supplier and get a returns number, charge the customer a bit of postage and hey presto, issue resolved, = happy customer.

I have had my Specialized frame warrantied by a shop I didn’t buy it from. Bought from a shop in Cheshire, moved to Yorkshire and worked in Leeds. I dropped it off at the local Evans and they dealt with it. Evans were great- Specialized’s new warranty guy was useless.

I bought my Spesh Enduro through cycle surgery and I found the warranty process took bloody ages so never bothered with that system again and went through different channels.

Cycle Surgery had to get in touch with Spesh UK and it just took forever to get answers and all the time I was without a bike.

never ever again !!

TheDTs – Member

Wheelies and wheelies direct claim to be different companies but have the (or did when I had issues) same registration number at companies house.
Long story, same bike different price on each website, will only sell bike at higher cost on insurance replacement.

Yep, this is the case. I dealt with Wheelies for an insurance replacement last year. Was offered more (significantly) in Wheelies vouchers than in cash (there was a cash limit on my policy, so fair enough here). I guess that insurance replacements all at RRP on their insurance replacement specific site is something to do with balancing the margins they make from the insurers.

In terms of my warranty experience with them, they found the Lev on my Zesty was knackered out of the box and it was sent to be updated (issue was a known Lev one which KS/Jungle were fixing anyway), turned around in acceptable time (plus they gave me a cheapo replacement post in the box for use in the meantime). I also requested a replacement set of narrower stays for my Zesty when I found out they were available (not that I’ve needed to fit them). Again this was turned around with Lapierre quickly.

I know they have a bit of a rep (did know this before deciding to go through them), but to be fair they saw me good.

I purposely bought my last bike from a large chain store so that I could take it into any branch if required. Within the first couple of months of ownership I had warranty work on the shock, replacement forks and a replacement front wheel. Cant blame the shop or the manufacturer for the failure of parts they didn’t manufacture. The shop in question was great my gripe was that a £4k bike would develop so many faults. Having said that it would seem the forks and shock in question wouldn’t appear to be particularl reliable. If more stuff worked properly the shops and customers wouldn’t have these issues in the first place!!