This thread is depressing to me. It kind of sums up the ‘trolliverse’ the internet has become today.

When the review copy of Fat Tire Flyer arrives at STW, I’m confident the editors will love it.

It does not affect my life if an internet troll does not respect me. I get respect from people whose opinions matter to me. A few days ago my best mates Tom Ritchey, Joe Breeze, and Gary Fisher joined me in signing the first copies of my book. Maybe you have heard of them?

The 175 first editions with these four signatures will be treasured forever by their owners, who stood in a long queue to get them, no matter what the trolls think.

The bike industry noticed.

The thread was about someone meeting someone who helped develop the original stumpy while on holiday, when Charlie’s toys came out the pram.
Let’s hear more about the ops holiday.

It kind of sums up the ‘trolliverse’ the internet has become today.

Because someone’s opinion differs to you own? Pull your head out.

I love cycling books I have loads of them .. I really fancy this one too it looks like it will be a cracking read 🙂

Irrespective of some opinions on here I think Charlie Kelly has earned the right to a bit of willy waving 😉

Is charlie the one wearing a T-shirt with a picture of himself on it while carrying a book with a picture of himself on it in this picture he has posted twice already on this thread.

The book is called fat tyre flier and available in all good book shops soon.
Incase anyone missed that.

I think there’s a lot of emotive language being used, and some big claims. I have no doubt that the four guys in that photo had a lot to do with the expansion of the sport, modelling how it is today, shaping the bikes we ride, making it more mainstream and accessible etc – and we all owe them for that. On the other hand when people use terms like ‘invent’ and ‘first’ then the claims are likely to come under scrutiny.

Anyway, I’m sure the book is interesting and I wish you all the best for it. FWIW, all this stuff happened before I was even born so maybe I shouldn’t comment 8)

It is a bit low when anyone who disagrees is labelled as a “troll” just to undermine them.

I’ve not seen any trolling on this thread at all. Just people raising points that some disagree with.

Address the point rather than calling “troll” so quickly, it makes your argument far stronger.

some pretty trolly language and lack of respect has been used on here neal- plenty on this page alone. Its not so much the points raised as the way they were raised

Its par for the course between regulars and those who know each other but sometimes it worth STFU and having a bit of respect.

YMMV

This is a bit like the arguments over who invented windsurfing and a legal precedent suggested it was an English guy, who seriously didn’t, but it broke a patent at the time.

I rode my first ‘Mountain Bike’ in 1985 in Canada the thing that defined it as different was the 18 speeds (road bikes at the time only had a dozen or so) and the shifters were on the handlebars and operated by your thumb, naturally I had to have one of my own.

But the defining manufacturing innovation that drove the sport to the masses and persuaded some cycle shops to agree to stock something that cost in excess of £400 when ordinary bikes retailed for £70 ish, was the Shimano produced ‘Index Shift’ followed by some Bio Rythmn ovalisation of the chainrings. That was in 1986 and then it took off over here.

There were events like the Man V Horse, and we had Man v Mountain bike (I’ve got some old standard 8 video somewhere I really must digitise it).

The Sport already existed in the States and in Europe, but these were the events that launched what we could call modern mountain biking and the ability to go up as well as down, most terrain, with ease.

I thank anyone who had a hand in it, it’s been my most enduring passion from that day in Canada to this and not a day goes by really when I’m not out on it with the dogs.

Its par for the course between regulars and those who know each other but sometimes it worth STFU and having a bit of respect.

But why? No respect was shown by Charlie in his opening post, IMO he set the bar low for how he was going to talk to other members. I don’t understand why we should go all doe eyed and accept everything he says. I see it as perfectly respectful, but there’s an ongoing arrogance and unnecessary aggression from him, which I don’t like. In fact I thought higher of him before this thread. That changed with his entrance to it.

I absolutely agree with Neal, folk can disagree and not “troll”, what would you call trolling on this page? As opposed to opinion, or disagreement with things presented as fact.

Typical STW .. a true pioneer presents himself, and gets loads of abuse.

Grow up you people.

Is charlie the one wearing a T-shirt with a picture of himself on it while carrying a book with a picture of himself on it in this picture he has posted twice already on this thread.

Yes, chip. Where can we find pics of you and your achievements?

amedias – Member
…Epicyclo is probably the most likely to know of any in the UK?

I was deep in the Australian bush in the 1970s and I didn’t have access to magazines, so unfortunately not much help for anything around that period.

I would have loved to have had a mountainbike though – I used to go touring on dirt tracks in the outback on a dropbar Peugeot PX10 with tubulars. 🙂

I had never heard of mountainbikes until I saw my first one in the local bike shop in 1983/4. The dealer was pretty dubious about whether he’d landed himself with a dog, but I bought it instantly even though it was a ridiculous price and weighed a ton.

I call them trolls because their tone is just ever so slightly sneering. Yes, Charlie maybe came in a bit strong but the response from some people has been a bit over the top. Look back at the posts and see what I mean:

Is charlie the one wearing a T-shirt with a picture of himself on it while carrying a book with a picture of himself on it in this picture he has posted twice already on this thread.

The book is called fat tyre flier and available in all good book shops soon.
Incase anyone missed that.

No need to do research, from the waffle on here he was obviously someone that was involved in the “birth” of modern MTB – His posting persona is that of an over aggressive “Look at me! Look at me!” type clown who I have no time for.

Never heard of him before, won’t care if I never hear about him again – but happily I’ll be able to recognise his posts in the future to ignore.

I’m really looking forward to not reading this book.

^ This! This in spades!!

FML, Repack Rider please please keep posting that irritating picture

I found these posts under a bridge…

I think/hope what we read as overly aggressive may just be a combination of enthusiasm, and being American

That’s my take on it and I’m happy to give CK the benefit of the doubt 🙂

Now, where’s that amazon.co.uk link…

Didn’t Brant invent the mountain bike?

No, he mounted a bike.

No he overbiked a Mountie

Yes, chip. Where can we find pics of you and your achievements?

I might be able to dig out my coca cola gymnastics no4 badge if my mums still got it.

Do you want a picture of me now with it or the one when I was 6 in my tighty whities.

It’s weird. It’s almost as if Charlie is a religious figure to folk on here. Odd.

I’m really looking forward to reading Charlie’s book. Its pretty cool that we have Charlie posting on the forum, he was there at the start with a bunch of mates who came to shape the sport we all know and love. That I’m really thankful to him for.

As an aside I dropped Charlie an email a couple of years ago about going on a ride, I was in San Francisco and hoped he could take me out. He replied saying no problem. Unfortunately my flight was severely delayed and I didn’t make it, I’m still gutted about that. I hope the invitation was an open one.

Good luck with the book Charlie, and thanks.

It’s almost as if Charlie is a religious figure to folk on here. Odd.

or we respect what he did and dont want to be needlessly rude to him to show how awezome we are.

Its amazing that Charlie is on here and posting, a true founding father of the sport.

Whats a shame is how much of an arrogant tosser he seems to be. I hope his internet persona is not his real life one, they usually ain’t.

I will read the book though, it sounds awesome.

some pretty trolly language and lack of respect has been used on here neal- plenty on this page alone. Its not so much the points raised as the way they were raised

CK didn’t exactly enter the thread (or participate in it) with a massive amount of respect though did he ?
And his posts have come across pretty juvenile (me me me) and quite sneery.

I know the history, and loved reading about it “back in the day”

And to be honest, I’m kind of disappointed (in a “never meet your heroes” kind of way) with the way CK has approached this thread.

I was hoping it wasn’t actually him, just someone arsing around 🙁

rossatease – Member
There were events like the Man V Horse, and we had Man v Mountain bike (I’ve got some old standard 8 video somewhere I really must digitise it).

The very first UK mountain bike events in Britain were the Bicycle Action ‘Fat tyre five’ series of 1984. As I recall CK was involved with setting up the magazine as well as the helping to promote the events.

As for who raced first down hill:

Early bicycles existed at a time when there were very few surfaced roads in existence and most of those were cobbled and covered in horse dung. You can be sure that someone somewhere raced down hill and recorded the results. The point is that these one-off events didn’t evolve into a long lived sport. That is unless someone knows of a down hill variant of Cyclocross?

There is a large amount of luck involved in whether innovators ideas either take off or die a death. If Raleigh had said to Geoff Apps in 1980… “That’s a great bike design, lets make a few hundred to see if they sell”… We could now be discussing whether Apps invented off-road cycling. Instead they thought it to be a ‘niche’ design. Even when the mountain bikes started selling well in the US circa 1983,they decided it would be a short lived fad and so only started making mountain bikes in 1985 after their road bike sales started to decline. By that time the likes of Muddy Fox, Ridgeback, Saracen and Specialized had stolen the market.

It’s almost as if Charlie is a religious figure to folk on here. Odd.

For me, it’s that I’d rather he post on here, than not post on here.
The posts are fairly self-promotional, but I know in the past there have been some interesting exchanges.

I would have interested to find out more about the op’s Rik Garner though too.

But why? No respect was shown by Charlie in his opening post, IMO he set the bar low for how he was going to talk to other members.

+1. I think he got the response his rather unpleasant OP deserved.

Deveron53 – So it’s ok if repack rider “comes in a bit strong” but I’m a Troll if I’m apparently “ever so slightly sneering” in a reply aimed at Rusty Spanner about how serious I can take someone who “comes in a bit strong” and takes the time and effort to stick an avatar in his posts on an avatarless forum.

If I wanted to be a troll there would be no “ever so slightly sneering about it”.

Junkyard – lazarus
“It’s almost as if Charlie is a religious figure to folk on here. Odd.”

or we respect what he did and dont want to be needlessly rude to him to show how awezome we are would be if we had ever actually done anything other than sit around sneering.

FIFY 🙂

And to be honest, I’m kind of disappointed (in a “never meet your heroes” kind of way) with the way CK has approached this thread.

Indeed.

Ooh been busy working so didn’t spot that I’ve now become a troll…..oops!

This thread is hilarious though, loving that you’ve changed your picture repack rider…..it’s not the fact that it was a dodgy picture that someone complained (at least I don’t think that it was) more the fact that you feel the need to have a picture of yourself at the top of each one of your posts!

This thread reminds me of surfmatt and his awesome exploits 🙂

Credit where it’s due though, you obviously crave attention and before this thread I’d no idea who you were….now I know your name, that you’re in a band and move pianos for a living. I believe you have a book out too?

his first post FWIW

Beg to differ. In 1981 Specialized purchased four bikes from Gary Fisher and me, the basis for the Stumpjumper.

Talk is cheap. Show me the photos from 1976. If he “invented the mountain bike,” why doesn’t he get any credit for it?

Tame by STW standards and this thread

I struggle to believe that you were all so upset by the robust nature of that reply that you felt compelled to reply in the way that you did and even though you did it was all his fault anyway

I dread to think how you will treat someone if this is how you treat a hero

Junkyard… Get over yourself.

I dread to think how you will treat someone if this is how you treat a hero

Seriously, get over yourself and Charlie ffs!! He’s not my hero, never would have been and certainly won’t be after reading his posts on here. My grandad whom fought in WW2, was wounded and spent a year as a POW was my hero. He never seemed to tell many people of his exploits though, just cracked on with life as a disabled veteran right up until May this year.

From a poster meetingan old mountain biker to someone’s granddad being hurt in ww2 – *cringe*

Only on here. I think both sides of the argument need to take a read throughthis thread.

As I said before – embarrassing.

It is Singletrack In A Can

Get over yourself.

a well argued exposition of just how rude his first post was and how you were not the rude ones.

Tom the word hero was used by neal and then Njee so why are you criticising me for it’s use in a post not aimed at you?

How many stw members does it take to start an argument?

Time has a habit of distorting the truth. All I get from CK’S posts is a man passionate about protecting the truth and his place in mountain biking’s legacy. If I was in his shoe’s, I’d be very robust in my language if I kept reading half truths and inventions about the things I new as fact, not least because I was actually there and very much a part off them.

Sorry Junkyard, I’m not really a seasoned stw arguer…..your last post has me stumped for a response (I’m not sure I understand your point in it tbh) you win.