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  • Sir! Keir! Starmer!
  • dazh
    Full Member

    Newsnight is fun tonight. Seems like Starmer is every bit as useless as some of us have always suspected. I presume Margaret Hodge will be calling him ‘a f****** racist’ in the coming days?

    kerley
    Free Member

    Yep, have said it for a while that he looks like he will fall apart very quickly come the election race. He just never comes across as confident or sure of what he is saying. That is something the tories are born with even when they are completely lying (most of the time) they are still confident and sure of themselves.

    Maybe Starmer is just not pyscho enough to be a leader?

    rone
    Full Member

    An IKEA politician.

    Convinces lots of people to buy it but underneath you know it’s flimsy and just made of junk.

    He’s hardly got much of a long political backstory either – despite his toolmaker schtick.

    It’s desperately sad knowing what we are leaving behind and what could be.

    An absolute new start is primed. And it’s going to be sold this way for all the wrong reasons.

    bails
    Full Member

    Bit harsh on IKEA, at least if I buy a bookcase I know it will actually be a bookcase.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    I imagine Labour will be vetting  a lot of candidates right now for antisemitic conspiracy theories

    its a weakness and the Tories will fully exploit it

    the mails timing.was perfect in releasing it too, Labour unable to remove the candidate

    Starmer should have ditched him straight away

    rone
    Full Member

    Got to laugh at the “oh god what now crew” – saying should we love u-turns?

    FFS Centrists are the ultimate factionalists.

    Sandwich
    Full Member

    the thing that Miiband is best at

    Is chaos and I would embrace that fervently just now!

    intheborders
    Free Member

    Yep, have said it for a while that he looks like he will fall apart very quickly come the election race. He just never comes across as confident or sure of what he is saying. That is something the tories are born with even when they are completely lying (most of the time) they are still confident and sure of themselves.

    So who you voting for, the bloke that conned you last time or the bloke trying to do that right thing?

    kerley
    Free Member

    So who you voting for, the bloke that conned you last time or the bloke trying to do that right thing?

    It is not about who I am voting for (which is not Starmer as he is not in my constituency anyway) , it is a point about the leader of the Labour party and whether people will vote for Labour or will his lack of confidence in what he is saying comes across badly with the voters when they see more and more of it during election campaign and get put off by it.

    Bit like the opposite of that over confident full of shit Johnson bloke they seemed to like

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    I imagine Labour will be vetting a lot of candidates right now for antisemitic conspiracy theories

    The word “conspiracy” has now taken a new meaning.

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    I imagine Labour will be vetting a lot of candidates right now for antisemitic conspiracy theories

    I’m expecting to be banned from STW from having suggested the same thing.

    Without going down that rabbit hole again, criticising the Israeli government is not, of itself, antisemitic.

    ransos
    Free Member

    So who you voting for, the bloke that conned you last time or the bloke trying to do that right thing?

    Who’s trying to do the right thing? All I’m seeing is someone dithering and finally making decisions based on RW media headlines. Green investment was the same.

    Even if you think the final decisons were right, it’s terrible politics.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    He just never comes across as confident or sure of what he is saying.

    Maybe true. But he wasn’t on Newsnight last night at all, was he? What I saw was just people of no consequence talking about when the candidate should have been dropped… based on not knowing what the extra stuff the papers were about to release was.

    That is something the tories are born with even when they are completely lying (most of the time) they are still confident and sure of themselves.

    Have you seen Sunak in action this week? The confidence is all gone.

    rone
    Full Member

    Have you seen Sunak in action this week? The confidence is all gone.

    Hey *outrage* – this is the Starmer thread how very dare you.

    andy8442
    Free Member

    The biggest open goal in UK political history, and Labour are going to sky it into row Z.

    kerley
    Free Member

    Have you seen Sunak in action this week? The confidence is all gone.

    Which is why the party will be keen to get rid of him, or would do if the timing around election is so bad but they may do anyway.  But even at his worst he is still better at it than Starmer.

    Starmer is ultimately a good person (compared to any tory) but is getting caught out by politics and personality.

    brownperson
    Free Member

    An IKEA politician.

    Convinces lots of people to buy it but underneath you know it’s flimsy and just made of junk.

    🤣

    Bit harsh on IKEA, at least if I buy a bookcase I know it will actually <em style=”box-sizing: border-box; –tw-translate-x: 0; –tw-translate-y: 0; –tw-rotate: 0; –tw-skew-x: 0; –tw-skew-y: 0; –tw-scale-x: 1; –tw-scale-y: 1; –tw-scroll-snap-strictness: proximity; –tw-ring-offset-width: 0px; –tw-ring-offset-color: #fff; –tw-ring-color: rgb(59 130 246 / 0.5); –tw-ring-offset-shadow: 0 0 #0000; –tw-ring-shadow: 0 0 #0000; –tw-shadow: 0 0 #0000; –tw-shadow-colored: 0 0 #0000; caret-color: #000000; color: #000000; font-family: Roboto, ‘Helvetica Neue’, Arial, ‘Noto Sans’, sans-serif, -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, ‘Segoe UI’, ‘Apple Color Emoji’, ‘Segoe UI Emoji’, ‘Segoe UI Symbol’, ‘Noto Color Emoji’;”>be a bookcase.

    Oof.

    MFI?

    dazh
    Full Member

    The biggest open goal in UK political history, and Labour are going to sky it into row Z.

    Amazing isn’t it? Not only have they shown themselves to be completely incompetent and indecisive, but they’ve also exposed themselves as raging hypocrites. It completely vindicates those of us who all along have said that the AS issue was a factional strategy employed by the right wing of the party to prevent a left wing labour govt and then purge any left wingers following Starmer’s leadership victory. Ironic that it might now also prevent a right wing labour govt. Karma is a bitch.

    ratherbeintobago
    Full Member

    Whole Rochdale situation is shambolic (not helped by utter chancers like Galloway and Danzcuk running), but the candidate selection thing was utterly avoidable, as they’d parachuted in someone from Lancashire county council when there were local candidates who wouldn’t be quite so inept/naive. I bet they’re regretting not selecting Paul Waugh.

    There was a bit of signposting when they refused to commit to letting Ali stand again come the GE.

    Massive own goal, especially with two winnable by elections this week.

    rone
    Full Member

    After the Green chaos but before Rochdale swivel.

    somafunk
    Full Member

    The lid dems can gtf out of my region (Galloway), they’re utterly pointless

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    It completely vindicates those of us who all along have said that the AS issue was a factional strategy employed by the right wing of the party to prevent a left wing labour govt and then purge any left wingers following Starmer’s leadership victory

    On the subject of conspiracy theories….

    Seriously, it’s too close to an election for either party to be looking to change leaders. Labour supporters need to hold their noses and get their shit together behind Starmer, and start hammering the Tories on all their actual failings, rather than getting distracted sabotaging themselves.

    Labour are at real risk of not winning this next election, and the country needs all of us to act like grownups to avoid a Tory victory.

    kimbers
    Full Member

    After the Green chaos but before Rochdale swivel.

    as were all of these?

    at the moment that poll is quite the outlier, but it does take a while for these things to filter through to polling

    dazh
    Full Member

    Labour are at real risk of not winning this next election, and the country needs all of us to act like grownups to avoid a Tory victory.

    It’s always the lefties who have to be grownups in order to get rid of the tories isn’t it? I don’t recall many on the right of the party acting like grownups in 2017 and 2019. No they were running around calling people ‘f***** racists’ and saying they didn’t want labour to win. They can f*** off. If labour don’t win this election it’ll have bollocks all to do with anyone on the left.

    rone
    Full Member

    Here’s me thinking what would be a good example of ‘grown-up’ politics – because the Tories we have now are simply extentions of the mindset.

    You guys got what you asked for.  Failed Neoliberalism that needs to move further rightwards to justify its existence.

    rone
    Full Member

    . Labour supporters need to hold their noses and get their shit together behind Starmer, and start hammering the Tories on all their actual failings, rather than getting distracted sabotaging themselves.

    **** that.

    I’ve not been sold anything by Labour to get behind.  Labour and Starmer need to do a better job and earn my vote.

    rone
    Full Member

    at the moment that poll is quite the outlier, but it does take a while for these things to filter through to polling

    Of course. Let’s see shall we?

    MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    **** that.

    I’ve not been sold anything by Labour to get behind. Labour and Starmer need to do a better job and earn my vote.

    I don’t disagree with the sentiments, but FPTP means we can’t all stick to our principles.

    argee
    Full Member

    I wouldn’t worry MCTD, the folk on this thread will never vote labour, it always reminds me of the ‘parable of the drowning man’ when you see them complain about tories and so on, then they save the real anger for Starmer 😂

    somafunk
    Full Member

    I wouldn’t worry MCTD, the folk on this thread will never vote labour,

    Damn right, no point voting Labour if you want Scottish independence 🙂

    rone
    Full Member

    wouldn’t worry MCTD, the folk on this thread will never vote labour, it always reminds me of the ‘parable of the drowning man’ when you see them complain about tories and so on, then they save the real anger for Starmer

    I would say it’s Labour that’s changed towards Conservatism that’s brought about that one.

    It’s easy to be critical of the Tories.

    But I wouldn’t expect the political confusion of the Centrist mind to see the long term damage they’re encouraging either.

    ratherbeintobago
    Full Member

    I’ve not been sold anything by Labour to get behinD

    This is the problem, isn’t is? Not clear what they stand for, constant U-turns and abandoning popular policies. Compare and contrast with ‘97…

    dissonance
    Full Member

    but FPTP means we can’t all stick to our principles.

    And yet the centrists are wanting just that.
    Perhaps rather than purging the left they should try and work with them?

    brownperson
    Free Member

    Seems like Starmer is every bit as useless as some of us have always suspected. I presume Margaret Hodge will be calling him ‘a f****** racist’ in the coming days?

    Is that the same Margaret Hodge who called for ‘indigenous people’ to have priority for housing, and received a bouquet of flowers from the racist BNP for her efforts?

    stumpyjon
    Full Member

    Labour and Starmer need to do a better job and earn my vote.

    I wouldnt worry, I really doubt they want your vote or need it, Starmer has been working hard to purge the more extreme elements in the party and judging by current polls it’s either worked or at the very least hasn’t hurt their electoral chances.

    All those centrists you seem to irrationally hate so much are more than enough to make them electable, the far left are too small a group and too divisive to really matter.

    brownperson
    Free Member

    All those centrists you seem to irrationally hate so much are more than enough to make them electable, the far left are too small a group and too divisive to really matter.

    What do you mean by the ‘far left’ though? Because that only really refers to proper hardcore communists and a few fringe groups. A few thousand, couple of tens of thousands in the UK at most. If you mean ‘people who want a fairer and more just society’, then that’s probably quite a few more than you think it is. Starmer is all about the centre-right, appealing to neoliberals and capitalists. In fact, is you apply historical political metrics, Starmer’s Labour now occupy a political region somewhere to the right of John Major. So what you might think of as ‘far left’ might actually only be ‘moderate left’.

    If labour don’t win this election it’ll have bollocks all to do with anyone on the left.

    This is pretty much fact. Was the case at the last election too.

    stumpyjon
    Full Member

    What do you mean by the ‘far left’ though?

    Generally the people who keep banging on about Starmer being centre right. What you might think of as ‘centre right’ might actually only be ‘moderate left’.

    Looking at polling above I dont see anyone to the left of Labour other than the Greens and they are around 7%.

    It would appear certain postersmon here have an absolute scale of what left to right is. For the rest of us right and left are relative to the population as a whole not some arbitary scale of political belief. That puts those moaning Starmer is too right wing pretty far to the left of the population.

    brownperson
    Free Member

    Generally the people who keep banging on about Starmer being centre right. What you might think of as ‘centre right’ might actually only be ‘moderate left’.

    As I said; if you apply a historical metric to current politics, then Starmer really isn’t ‘moderate left’. He’s far too authoritarian and dictatorial for that. The people ‘banging on about Starmer being centre right’ are from a broad spectrum across the left. The vast majority definitely aren’t ‘far left’ at all.

    It would appear certain postersmon here have an absolute scale of what left to right is. For the rest of us right and left are relative to the population as a whole not some arbitary scale of political belief. That puts those moaning Starmer is too right wing pretty far to the left of the population.

    That’s just you creating a scale according to your own chosen political position. Moving the goalposts to suit your own game.  But if you look more towards academics and political analysts who consider politics in a historical as well as contemporary context, then you soon see a consensus appear which defines politics according to left and right. You can’t just make up your own scale that nobody else knows about nor agrees upon.

    ernielynch
    Full Member

    Looking at polling above I dont see anyone to the left of Labour other than the Greens and they are around 7%.

    You seem to be suggesting that strong support for Labour means that voters are not left-wing, why? Do you think that Tories would be enjoying greater support if voters wanted a left-wing government?

    You also seem to be suggesting that Starmer is simply following public opinion on policies. And yet on many very important issues that is simply not the case – he is doing the opposite.

    Don’t confuse supporting watered down versions of Tory policies with what voters want.

    A recent example is last week’s U-turn on the green pledge. The policy was popular with voters but not with the Tory Party/Daily Mail, Starmer decided to go with what was popular with the Tory Party/Daily Mail rather than what was popular with voters, especially Labour voters.

    Another example is this :

    https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/poll-uk-support-for-renationalisation-water-trains-energy-rail-354404/

    Around two-thirds of Tory voters also back calls for renationalisation, as the UK’s key services remain in disarray.

    Starmer is very clearly at odds with public opinion on renationalisation, but in line with Tory Party policy.

    Yet another topical issue is the current situation in Palestine – Starmer strongly opposes calling a ceasefire and yet according to YouGov only 8% of voters agree with him, 75% want an immediate ceasefire.

    Your claim that Starmer is embracing right-wing policies because that is what the electorate want is on very flimsy ground. The Tories will lose the coming general election because of their right-wing policies, arguing that Labour should therefore be more like the Tories doesn’t really make a lot of sense.

    ransos
    Free Member

    I wouldn’t worry MCTD, the folk on this thread will never vote labour, it always reminds me of the ‘parable of the drowning man’ when you see them complain about tories and so on, then they save the real anger for Starmer 😂

    Why do you centrists insist on perpetuating this obvious nonsense? Those of us on the left compromised when we voted for Starmer as leader.

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