An hour. Not even a day. 😀

Here you go, Binners:

https://fareshare.org.uk/donate/

A tenner. That’s all. Do something useful.

You’ve been challenged to back up your accusations, yet so far haven’t been able to come up with anything at all. Why is that? Is it just that you’re using the pathetic, cowardly tactic of trying to smear those you disagree with, rather than actually engaging with the discussion?

Not smearing, if you agree with the use of phrases such as puppet masters, return on investment,he’s not his own man etc that’s up to you. You see them in your context.

The fact that I think they are essentially the same as age old anti semitic tropes is up to me.

It’s the same thing from 2 different perspectives

The fact that I think they are essentially the same as age old anti semitic tropes is up to me.

So it’s only in your own head? Totally imagined? A figment of your own delusion?

Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

I used to think I was a leftie

And yet you very clearly use the term “leftie’ as an insult. Regularly. Almost daily in fact.

So we aren’t allowed to suggest that money influences politics in unhealthy ways, because that’s anti-semitic?

That seems incredibly useful to people with lots of money who use it to influence politics doesn’t it.

binners: who are these supposed paymasters?
everyone else: they’re these specific people as already mentioned and sourced from (now) publicly available documents
binners: Comrades, [monty python picture], tractor production….
kelvin: everyone stop being mean to binners

So it’s only in your own head? Totally imagined? A figment of your own delusion?

Nothing to see here, move along, definitely nothing untoward,

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/labour-frontbencher-steve-reed-apologises-unreservedly-for-puppet-master-tweet-about-jewish-tory-donor

Etc

Seems pretty obvious to me what has happened in with Starmer. He was backed by various new labour supporting corporate interests to win the leadership so that they could hedge their bets in the event of a future labour government and steer policy towards their interests. He then took that as a license to go to war against the membership and re-establish new labour central control of the party, no doubt under the influence of the likes of Mandelson et al. But then when the same corporate backers realised he was useless and never going to be PM they realised their money was wasted, so the promises of financial support never came to fruition. The result is a party which has deliberately cut off it’s main source of funding and grassroots support without anything to replace it. Nice one Keir!

Do you have any more details of who these mysterious, shady ‘puppet master’ characters are?

Binners for once just admit that your preferred option of new labour centrist control of the party has utterly failed. It failed in 2010 and 2015, it failed in the 2016 brexit vote, it failed in losing control of the party to Corbyn and the left, it failed in 2019 with the anti-semitism and 2nd referendum shitshow, and now they’ve taken failure to another level with Starmer which unbelievably might even result in the bankruptcy and destruction of the party itself.

The only time this sorry litany of failure was interrupted was in 2017, when labour looked a bit like a democratic, grassroots political party which was interested in making the lives of working people better. Now it looks like a dysfunctional corrupt borough council which needs to be put out of it’s misery, and that’s exactly what will happen as long as it’s under the control of these incompetent, self-interested centrist c***s.

So we aren’t allowed to suggest that money influences politics in unhealthy ways, because that’s anti-semitic?

There is more than one way to highlight issues with political funding, with all the history and recent events the left more than anyone else should understand language matters.

Alternatively Bridges thinks I’m deluded so I’m not sure why you give a fig about my views.

Nothing to see here, move along, definitely nothing untoward,

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/labour-frontbencher-steve-reed-apologises-unreservedly-for-puppet-master-tweet-about-jewish-tory-donor

Etc

Yes, which clearly makes every reference to puppet-masters in any context anti-semitic, even when it’s not being used about Jewish people. 🙄

I doubt he even knew Richard Desmond was jewish tbh.

I would agree using the term is pretty ill-advised given it’s historical use etc but I think it’s quite a stretch to argue it’s automatically anti-semitic.

Nothing to see here, move along, definitely nothing untoward

You’re actually trying to conflate my comments on here, with someone totally unconnected to me in any way? That is beyond desperate. That hole must be really, really big by now.

Keep digging. Be careful that the spoil doesn’t fall back in on you though.

Yes, which clearly makes every reference to puppet-masters in any context anti-semitic, even when it’s not being used about Jewish people

Language matters, context of a Labour politician/ member/ voter saying it more so

But I’m delusional, ignore me and keep saying it if you want

Dig, dig, dig, dig…..

‘Tropes’ is just a way to try to put words in another’s mouth and then slag them off and shut them up for being a racist. You need to be able to distinguish between zionism and racism. Zionism is used to justify Jim Crow laws against intermarriage plus ethnic cleansing plus endless military aggressions, it is a racist ideology supported by inter alia British racists then and now.
If people make an investment in a party, be it unions or car distributors, they expect to have influence. If not, it’s probably better PR to give it to a charity. Why did Starmer delay making public his sources of finance. Is that a trope?

You need to have a cup of tea

You posted this at least twice on contributions regarding Israel and Starmer’s labour

Yeah; puppet masters. And?

If you don’t think it’s a trope then fine, keep saying it.

At least one other person disagrees but you think they are delusional, so keep saying it.

‘Tropes’ is just a way to try to put words in another’s mouth and then slag them off and shut them up for being a racist.

Nope, it might be asking them the stop sinking to the bottom and further damaging a party which has a problem with AS. Plenty of other ways to say what you are trying to get across

Why did Starmer delay making public his sources of finance.

See you can do it

If Starmer was so cheap to buy, why weren’t British Muslim backers funding him? The money plus 10x the voter base must surely be attractive?

Nope, it might be asking them the stop sinking to the bottom and further damaging a party which has a problem with AS.

I can’t really be arsed getting into this, but one question I would ask is when people who accuse the tory party of having shady corporate backers (which no one with a couple of brain cells would deny), are they also accused of being anti-semites, or is this just an exclusively labour thing? The only thing you’re doing with this anti-semitism bollocks is helping unaccountable corporate interests maintain their influence over politics and democracy.

further damaging a party which has a problem with AS.

Labour supporters are statistically no more likely to be anti-semitic than supporters of other parties btw, I think less in fact – I will try and find the source for that.

Now it looks like a dysfunctional corrupt borough council which needs to be put out of it’s misery, and that’s exactly what will happen as long as it’s under the control of these incompetent, self-interested centrist c***s.

Dysfunctional corrupt borough council pretty much describes the London Borough of Croydon.

A council which for years has been in the control of Labour right-wingers and has comprehensively failed its voters.

The Labour group on Croydon Council couldn’t be more self-serving and incompetent. And they have a very close personal relationship spanning decades the current general secretary of the Labour Party Dave Evans.

Incompetent, bankrupt, featured on ITN national news due to its housing unfit for human habitation, and massively rewarding its councillors with generous “allowances”, it is hard to imagine the Tories not winning the next local elections.

The only thing you’re doing with this anti-semitism bollocks is helping unaccountable corporate interests maintain their influence over politics and democracy

Not using tropes is important in and if itself everyone should get that these days. The issues being discussed are important, they need to be tackled responsibly without language that should be cast into the history books

Labour supporters are statistically no more likely to be anti-semitic than supporters of other parties btw, I think less in fact – I will try and find the source for that.

It may well be true, I do think that labour’s focus on the Israeli/Palestinian mess leads to a escalation in language and attitudes

Ben and Jerry’s have stopped selling ice cream in the West Bank, but they’ve introduced new flavours for Gaza pic.twitter.com/OIPDB8DFDg

— Ian Austin (@LordIanAustin) July 20, 2021

Yes, your dogged defence of binners’ juvenile insults/trolling/not engaging with the answers to questions he asks because he doesn’t like them has become increasingly hard to understand.

So much this!

Also Tractor producing figures Binbins? What about the issue at hand- Labour being skint?

pic.twitter.com/3VKLzlZvpj

— Martin Philipovich Odonski (@HavetStorm) July 21, 2021

Ian Austin is utterly loathsome.

He should’ve have never been within a mile of Labour.

Is now isolating.

Starmer now also self-isolating as one of his kids has covid… I assume it was an lft test cince he was in HoP this morning and if a PCR he should have been at home till they had the result

Suspect it was lft, and that his kid isn’t ill. Sunday and Wednesday seem to be key days for lft for pupils.

Jesus, I thought Starmer had been isolating for the last 15 months.

The thought process that a politician goes through before tweeting something like that must be fascinating. How he thinks it would advance a solution to the problem or adds any value to to the discussion is beyond me.

What about the issue at hand- Labour being skint?

I thought the issue was that Starmer isn’t cutting through and the weak front bench team…..

A secondary issue is what are they spending money on to have a sudden crisis, that might be more revealing about the structural mess and legacy liabilities that Starmer and the labour party is wrestling with

Jesus, I thought Starmer had been isolating for the last 15 months.

Made me laugh!

The thought process that a politician goes through before tweeting something like that must be fascinating. How he thinks it would advance a solution to the problem or adds any value to to the discussion is beyond me

Maybe, although not sure with him – because he’s no longer an MP?

However your point is still 100% valid as he still has status.

But he became independent around 2019.

He really really pissed me off when he sent the letter as former Labour MP telling people not to vote for Corbyn – especially in red wall areas like ours.

Austin is also on twitter more or less blaming Corbyn for the funding crisis in Labour. Embarrassing considering how much money Corbyn bought with him.

Austin stands on a platform of mythical anti-extremism (Mainstream UK – Corbyn programmed AS in effect) – but he’s actually one of the most extreme MPs I’ve ever come across.

Massive MP expense juicer too.

Embarrassing considering how much money Corbyn bought with him.

And what might be going out as payoffs as a consequence of his leadership

Yougov polling looking dire

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/trackers/keir-starmer-approval-rating

Assuming he isn’t going to resign as Loto who can he get in to help him turn this around. Who can help him change those polls?

As for money, plenty of legacy issues for Starmer’s Labour
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/apr/19/labour-party-financial-peril-keir-starmer-members-leaked-report

Assuming he isn’t going to resign as Loto who can he get in to help him turn this around. Who can help him change those polls?

It’s not going to happen currently.

They’re not giving the voters anything to support. The ideology they are pursuing is paper thin.

It would need somes serious Tory cock-ups (food shortages, house prices etc) to shift the easy ride they are given.

Of course having a strong Loto might help!

Something may pop-up eventually that starts a Tory crumble. Market economics are effectively in turmoil with huge supply shocks. (Hence creeping inflation). But I think that’s short-term.

It would need somes serious Tory cock-ups

I would have thought that one thing we could agree on by now is that Labour is not going to gain support simply by waiting for government cock-ups… they are making them daily, and still Magic Johnson keeps his support. Starmer’s approach so far (try and neutralise the idea that Labour is anti-British and only interested in supporting ‘minority interests’ in the minds of voters lost to the Tories via UKIP/BrexitParty) is a failure. It has not only failed to win people back, but is turning away others. A new approach from him absolutely is required. And Labour need to be working out now who should replace him closer to the next election.

If this bankrupts the Labour party or individuals, so be it. Actions have consequences.”

Actions like conducting a massive campaign against your democratically elected leader using anti-Semitism as a smear, with the encouragement of spies from foreign governments, including directly making stuff up (Joan Ryan).

Those kind of actions have consequences, or they should anyway. Amazing how they’re quite happy to bankrupt the party over stuff done under a leader who’s not even in the party any more.

If this bankrupts the Labour party or individuals, so be it. Actions have consequences.”

Actions like conducting a massive campaign against your democratically elected leader using anti-Semitism as a smear, with the encouragement of spies from foreign governments, including directly making stuff up (Joan Ryan).

[Incidentally I just looked up her Twitter and she’s merrily retweeting stuff like this:

Fantastic event last night on @HMS_Richmond in #Haifa last night with @trussliz to show 🇮🇱 guests the best of 🇬🇧 military, products and hospitality. pic.twitter.com/yFlfqNDrYh

— Neil Wigan (@FCDONeilWigan) July 1, 2021

Corbyn said he would stop selling weapons to Israel. Funny eh?]

Those kind of actions have consequences, or they should anyway. Amazing how they’re quite happy to bankrupt the party over stuff done under a leader who’s not even in the party any more.

So, the virus running rampant, hospitals filling up, the economy grinding to a halt due to millions having to isolate, supermarket shelves bare, looming public sector strikes. This all getting a bit 1970s isn’t it? And yet the leader of the opposition is spending his time sacking party workers and waging war against lefty nutters who no one gives a shit about. It’s amazing that not only do we have the most incompetent PM and govt in history, but an even more incompetent LOTO and shadow cabinet. FFS Starmer, grow a pair of balls, swallow your pride and f*** off!

I imagine the motivations are varied, some of the people will have deep personal trauma, some might have just given up and be seeing the cheque as vindication.

Similar to why some people claim for medical negligence from the NHS and some don’t