Purchased a 51 Vivaro (130k-ish on the clock) last February for my maintenance business at £2k
In that time I’ve spent nearly £1800 on MOT, servicing and repairs,

Today the Van appears to have taken its final breath,
In short the Garage has given me the option to stripe the engine to work out if it is salvageable, AA and garage suspect the timing belt has gone,
a couple of hours at £90 could be wasted to diagnose the engine is finished or best case scenario that its retrievable but at the cost of around £600,

The AA man reckons I should scrap it and buy a Toyota estate!

What’s the situation with scrap? Can I get money for the van if the engine is screwed?

I’m aware vans cost money but I’m certain £2500 on a £2k van within a year is ridiculous?
I certainly don’t feel I’ve a good relationship with it
What would you do?

I’d get it sorted if it is otherwise still decent, but definitely spend the 90 quid.

Just as I’m about to pay my first tax!

What’s the situation with scrap? Can I get money for the van if the engine is screwed?

Scrap is just that, you are getting paid for the metals/plastics that can be recycled. The price of scrap metal is low recently, so you may not get much, particularly if it’s collected.

Take it to a dodgy garage round the corner where two old blokes will fix it cheap if you have one?

Scrappers will give you money for it and collect it. But not a lot.

Take it to a dodgy garage round the corner where two old blokes will fix it cheap if you have one?

I did but we fell out! 😕

I’m aware vans cost money but I’m certain £2500 on a £2k van within a year is ridiculous?

You’d spend more that that in depreciation just driving an £18000 Vivaro off the dealers forecourt and thousands in depreciation every year there after.

The purchase price of the van has no bearing on the value of the running costs. On a newer more expensive van you’ll pay those depreciation costs every year whether you like it or not. With an older, cheaper, van sometimes you’ll pay those bills and sometimes you won’t. One year I’ll pay £2k for a service and mot on my sprinter another it won’t cost me more than £150 all year. There area lot more of those £150 – £500 years than £2000 ones. But across 8 years of ownership I only pay £2k in depreciation.

The question is how much Lost business earnings has it cost you …..

just have a look for a replacement renault engine and get it fitted if rest of van runs ok.

Get a Toyota Previa (not an ex Taxi Obvs.).

Take all the rear seats out, fit a bulkhead and “mirror” tint the windows.

Oil and Brake pads only for the rest it’s life (250k)

You would be better off selling it as a non runner for collection only on E Bay. Scrap prices are terrible at the moment.
I got slated by all the TVP owners last time I said something bad about them. But what I will say is if the AA man and your garage both say they reckon the belt has gone, it will be the belt. That is not a cheap fix and could have caused untold further damage. If the belt has gone it is because it has not been serviced properly if at all. And probably been driven badly also. So I wouldn’t even part with the £90.
It will be an endless money pit.

Thanks for the replies,

I’m going to have them strip the engine, if they come back with a sub £700 cost, I think I’ll bite the bullet and have the work done,
Anyone know of any Shamans/exorcists?
Me and this Van don’t have a good history but maybe I’ve not given it enough time to prove itself?

Self employed life isn’t all that sweet!

It will be an endless money pit.

As will the £700 estate I buy as replacement?

Why are you no just sourcing a second hand engine with a warrenty from a reputable breaker ?

And probably been driven badly also

To be fair the vans previous owner did fewer long journeys whereas I’m short sharp journeys everyday,
My driving isn’t perfect but I’m certain it wouldn’t have caused too much damage but I reckon the change in the Vans use has probably not helped.

Why are you no just sourcing a second hand engine with a warrenty from a reputable breaker ?

Cost I guess? How much for the engine and labor?!
sounds like more than I could supply.

Im going to go for more cost effective than paying agarage to explore in an engine that may end up needing a new head depends whats been damaged when it let go.

Some engines lunch valves , camshafts , pistons and other vital bits if it went at wrong time.

Id explore and look at repairing my own engine but not on your nelly would i pay someone else unless it was a rare engine.

Common engines can be picked up cheap and the labour will be cheaper than getting the damage made good at labour costs prior to any spares it may need,

For balance other engines just bend push roads and can be fixed with a new cam belt and and push rods in about an hour. Yours is not generally one of those unless your hella lucky

1.9 vivaro engines seem to range between 3-500 quid.

Not sure if there are issues programming immobilisers though.

OP does seem like a money pit so far. In my limited experience older vans seem to sell for higher prices than cars, as above an old estate and keep the rear seats flat

Well the vehicle’s quite old but that’s not a high mileage.

How’s the condition of the rest of it? What else have you paid for since you got it?

What’s it gonna cost you to replace the van vs just replacing the engine?

Working out whether the cambelt is broken or not should take 5 minutes.

If the rest of the van is good then it may well be worth getting it fixed. I don’t like pouring money into cheaper vehicles but then if you already own it then at least you know what its problems are.

Most Vivaro’s I see for spares or repairs have engine trouble..

Sometimes leasing makes sense…. I’m currently looking at new vansas my current one is coming up to three years old. It was my first ever new vehicle. I’d hate to go back to running older stuff for business use now.
Three half days since new, two services and a small recalls = more time earning.

working out whether the cambelt is broken or not should take 5 minutes.

The cambelts the easy bit …Working out all the other broke bits on the other hand

I think Trail Rat is right about a warranted used engine.
Think about what I said in my earlier post. If the timing belt has gone on a vehicle of this age it is a sure sign of poor servicing. This is also a pointer to the assumption it hasn’t been looked after.
Diesel engines need to be properly looked after. If it hasn’t had regular oil and filter changes there will be all sorts of wear and tear.
Ring the garage in the morning ask them what they would charge to swap the engine. They may even be able to source you one for a good price. And would it be cost effective compared to repair. They should be straight with you. Not all garages are Aholes.

1.9 Renault diesel is an interference engine, so it has lunched the valves and possibly the cam. It’s a head off job, £8 per valve, head skim, valve lap, valve guide check and possibly replace.. I’m reckoning £400 in engineering and parts.
Then there’s the garage Labour… 6 hours or thereabouts

I’d have to try timing it up and fitting a new cam belt first, you might be lucky and get away with it.

What’s it gonna cost you to replace the van vs just replacing the engine?

This is what I’m thinking…

I’m reckoning £400 in engineering and parts.

Tell me where I can find this sort of price?!

Then there’s the garage Labour… 6 hours or thereabouts

They say if I can source one, they’ll fit it, gave me a ball park figure of £1300+ including the cost of an engine at £400 plus they’d replace the timing belt while they’ve easy access.

I’m still uncertain as to how to approach the situation, £1300 isn’t money I have,

I doubt I could get much for the van for spares & repairs as it’s the first ever Vivaro model,
£50ish from the garage scrap man,
£155 online scrap collection.

I don’t get on with this van and who knows we could go the next 3 years with no issues,

The idea of a £700 estate doesn’t appeal either, I take it a petrol engine with 2k on the clock is just as much as a gamble if not more?!

“gave me a ball park figure of £1300+”

thats a we dont want to do it – go away price

also you misunderstand the 400 quid quote. thats purely for the parts and the machining work to make the head good to fit again.

youd still have to pay for the 6 hrs labour on top of that.

which if they want 1300 quid to pull and fit an engine would be a similar cost to do a head off rebuild id reckon possibly more which is why i said id do such work my self but id not pay a garage to do it.

do you need such a big van ?

an estate car will be cheaper and parts much more common as they will be platform shared across many vehicles.

Id certainly entertain the thought of a 700 quid estate over a 700 quid van how ever and im not pointing fingers there may be underlying costs you have incurred that oyu didnt expect BUT you do have to ask your self if the business is viable if it needs a vehicle and you cant afford the running costs of a vehicle ??

I don’t get on with this van and who knows we could go the next 3 years with no issues,

It sounds to me like fixing it isn’t going to make you happy. For that reason you shouldn’t spend money on it but the problem then is sourcing a replacement.

However, if it was me, I’d get it fixed as 9/10 it’ll cost you a lot less money than buying another.

At the age the van is I doubt very much the milage is genuine.

I’m reckoning £400 in engineering and parts.
Tell me where I can find this sort of price?!

Thats around what my man a Molyneux Engineering would charge on average for what i assume to be worst case damage scenario- again assuming the injectors aint seized in the head and need a specialist aside from the engineering shop to remove them with special hydraulic tools…

I know these vans have a massive fan base, but they really are dire, for a cast iron engine to be so weak is almost unprecedented, the electronics are a nightmare and a gearbox made of cheese.
Unfortunately when they to do work, they drive fantastic with great economy, which is why i suppose they have their appeal

Your quote of £1700 is about the price of a lowish miles 6 plate Scudo / Expert/ Dispatch with a bombproof 2.0 hdi or apocalypse war proof normally aspirated 1.9 DW8. The boxes are equally tough and about the only thing that wear are tyres, brake frictions, rear radius arm bushes and front lower arms/ All are cheap to replace
So i know what my next move would be

^For balance, I’ve had the headgasket go on 2 different vehicles with the 2.0 hdi engine, but the 1.9 is indeed bombproof

In a quest for spares, may also help you to know that the Vivaro is also produced by Renault as the Trafic and Nissan as the ‘name escapes me right now’, though unless you especially need a van, an estate car will be significantly cheaper to run

I’ve done more than a few heads cams and valves on the PSA 1.9 Dw8s too, but even if the belt snaps at high speed, it can be just a snapped camshaft and shock damage to the vac pump, I soon learned to whip out the cam and glow plugs and do a cylinder leak off test before whipping heads off 😉
They really do cost shirt buttons to rebuild, and taking the heads of cars/vans that have done 270000 + miles you can still see the original scores from the bore hone when it was first built- awesome engineering IMHO!

Scudo / Expert/ Dispatch

French though?!

As an example, a new Peugeot Expert can cost you buttons to buy new, can be depreciated through your business and over a 5 year period would be about 2k a year with a residual value at the end.

http://palmerscars.co.uk/peugeot-watford/new-business/peugeot/expert/van_professional-l1-h1-hdi-130bhp-with-sat-nav_14642.html

So if you work out how cheap it is to buy a new Van and be paying around 2k a year to buy it, a £1700 bill on a van worth about thousand pounds isn’t worth thinking about.

i dont think the man holding a vivaro is in any place to comment about french vehicles.

FWIW it the dispatch platform seems to come out of the fiat side of things and i thought it was pretty dire – given the issues pops had on his brand new 14 plate. he chopped it in just over a year old and bought a 16 plate nv400

The dispatch spent too much time in the garage – entire front end suspension needed rebuilt at its final service in his owner ship/60k miles….comparitively his string of transits before that did 8 years before rotting away…

i dont think the man holding a vivaro is in any place to comment about french vehicles.

Lol, absolutely, Only as I used to drive a Peugeot 106, Silly expensive for parts of its class,
My wifes Yaris (of which I’m currently using for the business) may be of Japanese design but was made in France, because of this, almost all parts I’ve purchased have a 10-20% up mark on them,

I’m skeptical of French vehicles.

trail_rat You seem to be up on mechanics and vehicles alike,
Whats your trade?

Hello I have a breakers yard in West Yorkshire,have done for 35 years.If you are within a 20 mile radius of WF3 we will give £200 for your van,we can also supply a cylinder head with cam and valves for £125.we do recommend that you have the head skimmed before fitting as you should with all alloy cylinder heads before refitting them.

tacopowell – Member
Scudo / Expert/ Dispatch
French though?!

Italian 😉

Certainly the pre face-lift up to 2008 were built at Fiat, hence the wierd alfa romeo 5 stud wheel pcd that’s totally at odds with anything built by Peugeot or citroen

The post facility I’m not sure, they probably are French built, but even the cheapest dog in that model is around £2000 + still.. The most expensive will be the badged up Toyota powervan.

Actually there’s another good van, the pre PSA group collaboration powervan, rear wheel drive, bomb proof mechanically and bodily , the awesome Toyota D4d diesel engine, they don’t rot, they drive lovely and are comfy all day…