Shock Tunes – Horst vs DW link

I noticed when looking at bike specs that the Nicolai Ion 16 comes with a Low/Low rebound and compression tune and thats the same tune as a Ibis Mojo.

How can that be? I would have expected there to be a big difference between the shock tune on a Horst vs DW link

Would a shock be interchangeable between the two?

There’s a huge amount of variance within the various suspension configurations. Leverage ratio is the main consideration with the shock tune and that’s a separate issue to the anti-squat/rise (although that will have a bearing on how much low speed compression you dial in).

I would have thought it would depend on how they have designed the suspension to work on that specific bike rather than just speccing that tune for DW/Horst as not all bikes with a Horst link will ride the same and the same with a DW

http://linkagedesign.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/nicolai-ion-16-275-2015.html

http://linkagedesign.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/ibis-mojo-hd3-275-2015.html

not all bikes with a Horst link will ride the same and the same with a DW

Completely get that, but they all Horst links as far as I’m aware have the same basic characteristics and the same with DW link and VPP.

Horst have a single curve in the linkage ratio and then this curve is changed at the beginning of and end of the Stoke depending on the characteristic you want.

While DW and VPP bikes have a two stage approach that the governed by the way the shock is being driven by the two linkages. i.e the linkage at the start of the strike will drive the shock in a certain characteristic than this will then switch midway to a different curve. So you almost end up with an S shaped curve.

So I wouldn’t of expected the same shock tune to be used for both?

Look at the graphs – there are hundreds of bikes on there with all manner of designs. Some great designs, many good ones and some absolute shockers (which explains why some bikes which have great geometry fail to ride well…)

The tune is just a best fit. Even if the dw is two stage, you choose one of three standard tunes for compression, then the same for rebound. Lots of companises go low on the tune so the bike feels plush on a car park test ride. I think I heard this criticism levelled at whyte last although I’ve not tried it first hand.

While the basic mass produced options might be the same between the two, I bet you’d get very different results with a skilful custom tune.

Whyte were one of the WTF?!! examples:

http://linkagedesign.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/whyte-g-150-275-2014.html

I can’t see any redeeming features about this design…

All interesting stuff

But………heres a good question

– Most pro-pedals switches and levers (bar ccdb cs) work by increasing the low-speed compression damping by a % amount to provide more resistance.

If you have a shock with a low/low tune and another which is high/high, if you flick the pro-pedal lever on both will the shock with a high/high tune offer more pro-pedal/better climbing/less bob as it has more compression in the first place even without the pro-pedal than the low/low, which then gets even higher when you use the pro-pedal???

Cant seem to remember seeing that question answered before?

Some shocks use a LSC metering method to control pedal bob, others use a platform. Some, like the new Fox DPS (I believe) use both depending on whether you’re in open or trail.

The tune of a shock normally relates to the shim stack, which is controlling the high speed damping, so no, the higher damped shock shouldn’t offer more pedal bob resistance than the low tune if its a platform type shock. As an example the Monarch RT/RT3 shocks have a factory set platform resistance that would be the same for any compression tune (assuming that is how it was specced – there are choices in terms of platform stiffness).

That said, High Speed is a bit of a miss leading term, as high speed is not necessarily all that high speed. In a typical shim stack even moderate pedal input will cause the stack to begin to deform, so the stack is contributing to the anti-bob of the shock, and so conversely the answer is also yes, high compression tunes will effect the anti-bob of a shock, but its not so clear cut as to say that a low/low has less anti-bob than a high/high – its probably not designed to, but it might be an additional effect of the tune.