In the process of buying a Helius AM. Have a choice of shocks – an old coil Van from an old Bullit or have been offered a good price on either a DHX4.0 or a DHX Air.

Am quite tempted to get the DHX Air….

Does anyone have any thoughts?

Cheers

I’d say either the coil Van and get it tuned for the bike or get the RP23BV.

I’ve got an AM myself, and have used CCDB, RP23BV and DHX Air and while the CCDB is clearly significantly better, the RP23BV is a great compromise for weight and performance.

I don’t think the DHX Air is all that great to be honest. It’s not bad, just not as good as the RP23BV.

A piece of advice though – if you’re going to buy new (rather than use the Van) get the shock orderd with the frame and save yourself the hassle of having to source the mounting kit. While you’re at it, since you’re obviously flush, order it with the Vivid Air. Reports from the one person I know using a Vivid Air on an AM (Whafe over on MTBR) are very positive and is the best compromise on weight and performance, even more so than the RP23.

Also, be aware that the dimensions for this generation of AM are 216mm by 63mm, not 200mm by 57mm as it used to be.

More importantly, what colour did you go for?

Out of the choices you’ve mentioned the DHX coil or Van, both will benefit from a tune, I wouldn’t bother with the air.

Interesting comment LoCo – I sort of agree as I prefer the ride of my AM with the CCDB, it’s just that it’s not a light frame anyway and with the RP23 you shed over 1lb in weight.

The new AM is even heavier, comes in at 3.4kg without a damper so if it’s being bought as a ride all day trail bike, weight might be important.

Interestingly the ‘official’ line has always been that the AM was specifically designed to work with an air spring rather than a coil, but so many people end up using them with coil springs.

Was refering to the options of shock Redx mentioned in the OP.

If fitting another shock as you say a CCDB ( or DSP Dueler, of course 😉 ) for coil would be the best option.
And as you say a RP23 Boost valve for air.

Obviously all setup or tuned to work with the specific suspension design and rider weight and style.

Regarding the DHX Air I just don’t really rate them.

My AM has the levers for the 215 shock 🙂 I have a Float R and a DHX 4.0 which I run on it. The Float R worked okay at first as long as I didn’t do anything enjoyable with the bike, as soon as I took it in the gnar with this shock it complains noisily and feels uncontrolled. I have fiddled quite a lot with the Float R and the best compromise is to run it on one of the reduced travel settings with the volume of the air can reduced (filled with plastic – easy modification). Problem with the large air can is that the shock blows through the middle travel causing pedal strike and wallow – which is a common complaint about DHX air shocks, so I would be very warry of running one of them… but some people love them… and we all have different tastes so who knows who is right? This is my first air shock so I persevered, but in reality I find it a bit pish… very light pish but pish none the less. In the reduced travel settings I can lower the pressure and by working the shock less hard it does perform better… but where is the fun in having 7″ inches available and only using 6″???

The DHX 4.0 is a revelation compared to the Float – loads of control and a really smooth operator. It’s not brilliant though and tends to pack down on the fun stuff and I get the odd pedal strike as it’s slow to recover – typical Fox Pro-pedal-pish behaviour. A better shock such as a BOS, CCDB, or a custom tune will improve these traits and this is what I plan to do.

I’ve spoken to TFT and Loco about some improvements and what I see as the failings with the two shocks, and once Loco gets his stock of shims sorted I’ll be going down the custom route with one or both these shocks.

It’s been great fun switching between the two as they both have traits I quite like. For all the air shock being a bit poor it can be great fun because a bit of weight shift blows the shock through it’s travel and squats the back of the bike for epic manuals through the rough stuff – don’t expect the bike to recover before the next corner as it will still be squated, or it will have kicked back as you weight shifted forward – fun but not fast or clever. The DHX is business like but has a lazy almost stiffled feeling. I’m looking forwards to feeling what Loco can do – I’ve always had my shocks custom tuned and hence can very strongly recommend doing this – try a simple shock, and then figure out what you like and dislike and take that info to the tuner. I was going to do it months ago but other events have got in the way.

I’ve spoken to Loco about the Dueler shock and am very tempted… but I wanted to try a lighter spring on the DHX first… so I’ve not quite finished playing with what I have yet. I do like a good fiddle.

Cheers for the comments guys. Am in the process of buying one of last years frames off Mike & Steve the Nicolai importers, and am stretching myself to afford it. Realise that a new shock would be the best way to go but had resigned myself to using the old Van until I could afford a new shock. However Mike offered me either a DHX4.0 or DHXair at a good price, which got me thinking….. Most of my riding will be at Afan/Glyncorrwg/Cwmcarn/Brechfa and I’ll use the short travel setting. Currently ride a hardtail.

Met a guy riding an AM at Glyncorrwg the other weekend with a DHX air who liked it. Really want something fairly simple that I can fit and forget, so was thinking the Van would be good. Did think about sending it off for a service/tune. Have read an interesting discussion between Loco & SkylineGTR (Kev from Skyline & now Schmoos?) about the merits of a PUSH tune, I was thinking of contacting Loco about tuning the Van….

TF Tuned are about to get the Push kits to tune the new RS Monarch which is supposted to be better than the Push-tuned RP23.

If cash is tight use the Vanilla and keep an eye on ebay and the classifieds. I picked up the Float R and the DHX 4.0 for very little I was going to use an older shock I had but the new shock size in 2010 meant I needed a new… well… new to me anyway.

Also worth checking on MTBR where the Nicolai owners hang out. Bargains and part swops frequently available.

Loco tuned my Van, lots less wallowy, much better.

Redex – good call man! Those ‘outdated’ AMs are a bargain and it could be argued that they are a better buy than the new ones as they are lighter by a good margin.

I’d say go with the Van, have it tuned and with the money you save, either put a ti spring on it (will save you up to 1lb in weight) or invest a little extra in the fork or wheels depending on what you’re having to buy extra for the build.

Really wanted one of these since I saw a demo one at Skyline Cycles in Desert Camo. Shouldn’t really be buying it with twins due next month and a loft conversion to pay for, but the price is great and what with cost of new kit going up I thought now was the time to buy. Looks like I’ll use the Van for the time being to save some money.

Kit will all be existing, 2005 Z1s that refuse to die, superstar/stans wheels, some saint and a fairly old Pace stem….. Hopefully in due course I’ll some new Bombers, dropper seatpost and I’ll see about shocks. Not sure about the bombers as have a pair of 2004 Z1s on my hardtail that have really been hammered and still refuse to die…..

From the Nicolai UK website

Helius AM – blah blah

These frames are 2010 head angle (67.5deg) and shock spec (200x57mm). All are 1/8th headtube, QR rear and without ISCG.

No problem on the head angle which is fine, and the 200×57 shock size will mean a much larger pool of available second hand shocks 😀

QR rear is possibly preferable to a bolt through if you are not a bike breaker, ISCG would be nice but not really necessary if your not planning to do rad doonhallness with it – you can still fit bottom bracket mounted chainguides if required.

Messiah speaks the truth (well he is the Messiah!)

Yep, pretty much agree with Messiah. QR on the back is fine as it means I don’t have to buy a new wheel and the frame is probably stiff enough anyway. ISCG would be nice in case I wanted to fit a Hammerschidt at some point in the future but would probably be more likely to go 1*10….

Van shock will be heading Loco’s way tomorrow to have a look at.

Cheers for all the advice,

Alex

oh me…. how did i miss this threas ?

i’ve spent the last 2 years trying to get my AM working satisfactorily…..

CCDB now been custom tuned by STENDEC …. and it’s been massively improved.

i reckon Loco tuning a Van would be as good as anything…..

i’m a convert for custom tuning now…..

regarding the QR rear and 1.125″ HT, same as mine and the frame’s that stiff, you’ll suffer no issues…

let us know how it all pans out…… 🙂

good luck !

TLR,

When you say you’ve spent the last 2 yrs trying to get your AM to work, what exactly do you mean?

Cheers,

Alex

Theres a Monarch on the For sale ads,Seller XXX,200x57mm “E” tune,Perfect

Good price aswell

CCDB is brilliant,had one on my FR.But it has a weight penalty.

TLR,

When you say you’ve spent the last 2 yrs trying to get your AM to work, what exactly do you mean?

It means TLR doesn’t listen to advice 🙄

Try a shock, work out if there is anything you dislike or could be improved and get a custom tune when it needs a service…

Agree with above in terms of don’t go DHX air, I really didn’t like it.

I’m very torn whether to go air, but have decided to stick with coil as it just feels so plush yet so controlled even though I had cocked up my travel setting running the lowest when I had thought I was on highest. Now its super plush.

Cane creek is likely to come out with a 11/8 angle set in the not too distant making the ‘old’ AM even more tuneable.

Can’t say vie ever found it skittish though!

messiah Fail – that was the problem – i listened to ‘experts’ and ended up miles away from where i wanted to be.

having dealt with a custom tuner and suspension expert, they revealed the requirement for a , quote “Dynamic Tune”…..which makes the CCDB more active and gives more pop.

i trusted their thoughts and opinion [luckily].

they truly understood suspension dynamics and weren’t basing opinion on what they’d read on the net / magazines / etc.

unfortunately, i’ve lost interest in the AM as it’s a battleship and doesn’t warrant any finnesse.

may soon be relegated to the back of the shed 🙁

Just to buck the trend, i actually really like the DHX Air on my AM. Been riding it since i bought it in November (Mine has the new geometery and longer shock) and absolutly love it!

I find the abililty to apply a good dose of Propedal a really great feature for sustained climbing (i run the piggyback at maximum pressure of 200PSI) and then just flick it open for the descents. I’ve done all sorts of riding on it from local stuff to 30km in the Black Mountains and don’t find the weight an issue whatosoever. Mine’s weighing in at around 32lbs at the moment, if that’s important.

I have no experience of coil shocks but the DHX Air is the best air shock i’ve used and i’ve owned most Fox RP shocks since 2006.

I would like to try a coil though and consideriing we’ll be in the Alps for 3 weeks this summer i’ll certainly be getting one for that trip.

oh….and welcome to the club 😀

Final payment on the frame just been made. Shock is with Loco. Tried to describe to him what I’m after (hopefully makes sense, but probably not knowing me!), so it’s in his hands and I’ll see how it goes…..