Scotland wants to take back Stonehenge!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c207lqdn755o

Well, they don’t but it turns out the alter stone which has always been thought to have come from Wales actually came from Northern Scotland. All 6 tonnes of it.

So Stonehenge has stones from Scotland, Wales and England which to be honest, is pretty bloody impressive. Id love to know the story of why our ancestors felt the need to do this but I’m guessing that is something we will never know for sure.

Anyway, I think it’s pretty cool.

It was probably a spare stone that they had leftover on Lewis or Orkney.

Southerner : ” Are you going to use that stone for anything?”

Northerner  : ” Nah,yir fine wee man,jist take it”

🙂

Mrs Gordimhor who knows about these things told me about trade between Orkney and Ireland  many thousands of years ago .

Err that’s to say she told me recently about a  trade route that existed many thousands of years ago ?

Biggest issue, is the Welsh will rename it in Welsh, despite being in England. I spend a lot of my time in Wales and can’t pronounce any of it.

There’s another piece of the puzzle in that pieces of a broken pot, called ribbed ware, was found near to Stonehenge, and that came from the same area! It’s been known that there was a lot of trade going on in Neolithic times, this is even more proof of the existence of trade and movement of people 5000+ years ago. Extended testing of samples from all around the Orcadian Basin is now underway to pin the exact source down, in the same way that the exact source location of the Sarcen Trilithons came to light after a core taken from Stone 58 during work carried out in the 50’s to stabilise the stone because it was cracked.
The engineer doing the work kept the cores after the reinforcement rods were put in place, and took them with him when he moved to Florida. Having a clearout he found them, and decided they should come back, to the delight of the scientists, who could match a sample to samples from all known Sarcen sites around the U.K., and the actual source is West Woods near Marlborough, about 20 miles away.
Those stones were likely moved on sleds drawn by Aurochs, the last living example of which died in the 1600’s. They were huge creatures, so a team could easily haul a sled with a twenty ton stone on.
The Blue Stones possibly came from West Wales the same way; there’s going to be a lot of conjecture about how the Altar Stone was moved 400-odd miles from Northern Scotland!

Here’s a Sarcen in West Woods that’s been shaped, and has split, there are marks where wedges were driven in, so possibly someone was trying to break it up for building, and it went wrong, I think it’s a bit small a stone for use in Neolithic times – Avebury stones were broken up for use in local houses.

Fair amount of dating ‘evidence’ to back up the theory that the concept of stone circles in the UK spread south from Orkney. I’d hazard a guess that materials and construction skills moved along with the ideas in the same directions.

Even so, that’s a hell of an effort to get one ‘brick’ down to Wiltshire!

Could it have been sailed all the way down and then a much shorter effort over land? That seems the sensible method and I’m assuming was done.

If the Scots want it back, they could figure out how to transport it with neolithic methods and solve that mystery as well!

If you could bring it back up and leave it at the border, we’ll take it from there. In fact bring more up. It might start looking like a wall but that’s ok we’ll take care of it.

I realise the stone isn’t that visible. But do know one notice it was old red sandstone before?

pretty bloody impressive. Id love to know the story of why our ancestors felt the need to do this

Could it have been sailed all the way down and then a much shorter effort over land? That seems the sensible method and I’m assuming was done.

The way big stones were transported over distances during that era was actually quite simple. Angry giants threw them. If a giant is big enough and angry enough then distance is no object really

The welsh name for Stone Henge, Côr y Cewri, translates as Choir of Giants, and welsh giants in particular pretty much built everything, usually becuase they were in a bad mood. They were either doing that or eating children or making cloaks out of the beards of their enemies, so best to just try and keep their attention focused of the rock chucking and try to be out of the way when they landed.

But if the Alter Stone is indeed from Aberdeenshire then that might being the whole dating of Stonehenge into question, – it could be that Stone Henge could in fact date back all the way to the 1990s. 

So that would have been an ancient technique involving a Scania V8, a low loader, police escort, and tailbacks on the A90, A9, M8, M74, M6, M5,A417, A436, A338, and A303.  As chronicled by Sally Traffic

I’d hazard a guess that materials and construction skills moved along with the ideas in the same directions.

One of the neolithic settlements near Stonehenge (Durrington walls) had already been linked with Orkney since some of the buildings are remarkably similar to the Skara Brae ones.

Your stone is sarcin…

Your stone is sarcin…

Excellent work

Thinking a bit more, there are obvious parallels between the altar stone and the Aberdeenshire recumbent circles so there’s another potential link.

The dates maybe don’t hold up though – the altar stone phase of Stonehenge is dated around 2500BC, which would put it right at the start of recumbent building in Aberdeenshire. Not much time for the idea to spread a few hundred miles south unless a specific individual or team of builders was involved (which in itself is a really intriguing bit of speculation in terms of cultural spread and communication between different communites)?

Not much time for the idea to spread a few hundred miles south unless a specific individual or team of builders was involved

Builders have been heading south for the big money jobs for quite a long time it would seem

Could it have been sailed all the way down and then a much shorter effort over land? That seems the sensible method and I’m assuming was done.

Back when they discovered the exact location in the Preseli Hills that the blue stones came from (which wasn’t that long ago – I think they knew the basic area since about 1920’s but not the exact quarry until fairly recently), there was a documentary about how they’d been transported and they reckoned that sea was actually one of the least convenient methods cos you still had to haul it by land to and from the sea plus there was a significant risk that it’d sink and be lost forever.

At least if you drop a stone off a sled, if you have enough people it can just be picked it up again.

Could it have been sailed all the way down and then a much shorter effort over land? That seems the sensible method and I’m assuming was done.

I stayed at a campsite on Harris which used to be a Viking ‘boat yard’ and ‘builders merchants’ as far as they can tell. Multiple slipways for bigger and smaller boats. Also evidence of a lot of stonework going on around it, with very ancient quarries of some size nearby….

I’m surprised there hasn’t been a feature film or series made about the creation of Stonehenge. Surely you could make a pretty good ‘faction’ account with loads of fictional characters, tribes etc.

Before we all get over-excited about Neolithic trade routes, and whatever. Just becasue the stone is from Scotland, does not mean that must have come from there directly to Stonehenge in one go.

True. They probably stopped at Tebay services for an overpriced beaker of gruel.

Just becasue the stone is from Scotland, does not mean that must have come from there directly to Stonehenge in one go

Mornington Cresceht has been running longer than I’d realised

does not mean that must have come from there directly to Stonehenge in one go.

Aye, it could easily have had a wee visit to it’s pals in SW Ireland….

True. They probably stopped at Tebay services for an overpriced beaker of gruel.

Just snorted tea down my nose.

“Before we all get over-excited about Neolithic trade routes, and whatever. Just because the stone is from Scotland, does not mean that must have come from there directly to Stonehenge in one go.”

Absolutely. This is one of my bugbears about ‘popular’ archaeology – when someone says ‘oh this glass bead was traded from Mesopotamia to prehistoric Wales’ there’s never an acknowledgment that was traded in a lot of small steps rather than the implication that Bronze Age Jones went to their local Mesopotamian artifact dealer. Maybe there’s an assumption that the audience obviously knows this, but I’m not sure they do.

Absolutely. This is one of my bugbears about ‘popular’ archaeology – when someone says ‘oh this glass bead was traded from Mesopotamia to prehistoric Wales’ there’s never an acknowledgment that was traded in a lot of small steps rather than the implication that Bronze Age Jones went to their local Mesopotamian artifact dealer.

They seem to come up with all manner of nonsense.

Body found in peat/bog

Archaeologists will be saying its either part of a ritual sacrifice, or a clan chief killed in some battle. Compression of the skull, clear breaks on both legs.

The truth probably is the daft bugger fell out a tree when gathering eggs.

@fossy

Biggest issue, is the Welsh will rename it in Welsh, despite being in England. I spend a lot of my time in Wales and can’t pronounce any of it.

Ach y fi.

Id love to know the story of why our ancestors felt the need to do this

They can take our stones, but they’ll never take our freedom.

They seem to come up with all manner of nonsense.

Body found in peat/bog

Archaeologists will be saying its either part of a ritual sacrifice, or a clan chief killed in some battle. Compression of the skull, clear breaks on both legs.

The truth probably is the daft bugger fell out a tree when gathering eggs.

I said much the same about a news story of a Roman sword being found – there was a whole load of stuff about how it was clearly ritual, it was aligned in such and such a direction to match some celestial body, it was clearly an object of value…

Meanwhile, 2000 years ago, some Roman bloke was wandering round going “Lucius, have you seen my sword anywhere?” and Titus was pissing himself laughing cos he’d slung it in the undergrowth.

Stonehenge – the Barratts of stone circles. Generic building materials from wherever and a standardised layout, all built in some vague manner….

Stonehenge – the Barratts of stone circles. Generic building materials from wherever and a standardised layout, all built in some vague manner….

Open plan layout with great views. Ample parking.

Just becasue the stone is from Scotland, does not mean that must have come from there directly to Stonehenge in one go.

To be honest passing it bit by bit would be more impressive and surprising than it being a direct link. Be a rather long way for someone to be sticking a stone on the edge of their land and then someone else nicking it and moving it to their far edge and so forth. That or putting in an order with your neighbours for a big stone and it ending up being delivered from Scotland. I mean Evri couldnt manage that today (unless it was meant to go Avebury and they left a note going “left by your door”).

There is a theory about the bluestones being nicked from a circle in Wales which was about halfway between the quarries and Stonehenge so maybe look for lots of looted circles?

There are also other possible connections between the Stonehenge area and Orkney. Plus going along coasts before decent roads was often easier.

How do they know it wasn’t just carried by a glacier and then found in the locality?

A glacier that travelled nearly the full length of the island and carried a single rock that’s out of place?

Yep, such as

How do they know it wasn’t just carried by a glacier and then found in the locality?

I think it was a theory for a while. There’s no evidence of glacial activity though.

Aerzen, what and where is that boulder?

Appears to be a paper on this topic produced recently https://egqsj.copernicus.org/articles/73/117/2024/

Aerzen, what and where is that boulder?

It’s a boulder of lava that was carried from North Wales to the Midlands by glacial flow during the last great ice age.

Amazingly it ended up in Walsall Arboretum, right in the middle of its own tiny stone circle!

I’m surprised there hasn’t been a feature film or series made about the creation of Stonehenge. Surely you could make a pretty good ‘faction’ account with loads of fictional characters, tribes etc.

That sounds absolutely thrilling. Maybe do one about the construction of the M1 or the Leeds-Liverpool canal too.

I’m surprised there hasn’t been a feature film or series made about the creation of Stonehenge

I love me my early human history, but a film of some blokes deciding to dig a ditch, and successfully digging a ditch, meanwhile some other fellas deciding move from Wales walk to Wiltshire, successfully moving from Wales to Wiltshire finding the ditch and putting their dead ancestors there, and worshiping them while cutting down a bunch of trees to plant stuff… while in the meantime another group of blokes decide to use the stones a different way and re-arrange them and successfully do that while admiring some other stones nearby and incorporating those into the ring…

It’s not going to make for the most exciting film that ever there was