On the subject of gift I don’t see why I should pay fees for selling so now prefer bank transfer but buyer still has no protection, personally if the buyer would like the extra protection paypal provides then its on them to pay for it, in my eyes using paypal provides no benefits for seller or am I missing something ?

Normally tho I guess you can add a few pence on price to get it back as suggested, I think its a pain tho when buyer haggles you down then asks for you to pay fees on top as they would like to pay with paypal

[Ps. NEVER buy anything from anyone based in Plymouth of high value…..just incase its IWH….. ]

Why do you say this, please?

Also, as for the point of classified only posters, when you consider some of the snidey, un-helpfull replies posted by a lot of the regulars on here, I don’t think it’s that surprising that some people don’t want to post anywhere other than the classifieds.

I think Hora is referring to a particularly bad serial scammer who operated on here and Bikemagic, selling goods that weren’t as described and goods that almost certainly didn’t exist.

Thing is, he was also an active chat forum member too, and even after his dodgy behaviour was flagged up there were a few people ready to give him the benefit of the doubt. Not sure whether he was ever pursued for the money he stole.

http://forums.bikemagic.com/showthread.php/96283-Lee-Anderson-Steve-aka-Hamish-aka-IWH

why I should pay fees for selling

You don’t pay fees for selling you pay fees for protection.

Don’t forget the seller needs protection also.

My friend recently had someone chargeback scam him on his PS3. Luckily he use paypal properly AND had tracking information, and PayPal was on his side.

(He was the seller. The buyer tried to chargeback scam him – you can google that to arm yourselves against it, fairly common scam.)

Has anyone actually considered or attempted legal redress yet, as has already been commented on a couple of times here?

Perhaps a few hits from the Small Claims Court might make him think twice? The more he gets away with it the more he’ll continue doing it.

At the end of the day if you don’t challenge it I see you as being complicit in the crime, even though you’ve lost out yourself.

On the subject of gift I don’t see why I should pay fees

And why should the buyer? YOU are the one making the money, YOU should be accounting for that cost. In the same vein it’s bloody cheeky to ask the buyer to pay the fees too!
I’ve recently sold aroun £2500 worth of cycling kit for a friend. Expensive kit, good kit. Most of it I sold on STW. I never once asked for PP gift, and personally, I wouldn’t buy from anyone that does. If someone is asking for it, I just hit the ‘back’ button on my browser, for 2 reasons:
1) It’s greedy
2) It marks them as a possible scammer

If someone wants to pay me PP gift, fine, thankyou very much.
I know I’m honest and I’m also easily trackable (There’s loads of STWers know where I live)
If they trust me that’s appreciated but not expected.

In that recent sale one chap bought £750 worth of stuff off me in one hit. I was very nervous about this myself, literally becasue it wasn’t my kit I was selling and I wanted the buyer and the seller to be safe.
I spoke with the buyer on the phone in advance, I left payment ENTIRELY up to him. If he wanted the protection of PP (Non-gift) then that’s fine. In the end, neiter of us paid any charges.
With all that kit I’ve recently sold, and all the stuff I’ve previously sold on STW, I’ve never had one single complaint. This, I think, is becasue I put some work into it. I’m the one taking the money, so it’s my responsibilty to keep the buyer happy. Happy buyers = Higer prices. And that includes payment.

If you give the buyer as much info and description as possible and reply in a polite and timely manner to any questions, they trust you, and you don’t have to ask for PP gift. I’ve got a spreadsheet of every single cost I’ve paid on selling recently on STW. In over £2000 worth of STW sales, PP fees are under £10 total.

Stop asking for PP gift. It makes you look mean.

thing is as long as he stays below £100 small claims aren;t interested.

you’d have to try and get criminal proceedings started which requires a heavy burden of proof.

I agree it’s not necesarily upto stw to police the classifieds but how many people have *ever* left feedback on a thread they’ve bought from?

How many people look back through a sellers historical posts to see if there’s any negative comments?

Most (if not all) of us have a quick look to see if there’s a ‘weight of posts’ (ie. it’s not someone who’s joined to sell one item) and trust to luck and/or Paypal. And for the sort of value we’re talkign about maybe that’s enough? I’ve never sent anyone money I couldn;t afford to lose if it all went wrong. I’d be pee’d off if I got ripped off but other than a good moan on here I would be unlikely to take it further.

as an example, I sent a poster on here £450 to go to a bike shop and buy a bike for me that they wouldn;t do mail order for. Never met him, he lives 800 miles away. Sometimes in life you just have to trust that people are not out to get you and behave accordingly.

Honestly why should the buyer pay fees if the seller has specifically asked/prefers PP as a payment method?

I agree it’s not necesarily upto stw to police the classifieds but how many people have *ever* left feedback on a thread they’ve bought from?

I have, and I’ve asked people to do it for me. And if more people do it then it becomes forum ‘habit’.

How many people look back through a sellers historical posts to see if there’s any negative comments?

I do, but because I’m one of the rare ones that leaves feedback, it’s not much use.

If more people did the former, the latter would be easier and more useful, so people would see the benefit of it doing the former and e more likely to do it, which would make the latter even more useful etc etc . Virtuous circle innit?

Honestly why should the buyer pay fees if the seller has specifically asked/prefers PP as a payment method?

To gain the protection that the fees offer to both parties. Anyway, it’s not rocket science to factor the fees into the asking/offered price.

*wanders off to classifieds to leave feedback on recent purchases*

*feels virtuosly circular* ;*

On the subject of gift I don’t see why I should pay fees

You are the seller. If you want to cover the overhead then adjust your prices accordingly. Or are you suggesting that Paypal should offer a global money transfer scheme free of charge? Good luck with that one.

Oh I don’t ask for it peter I prefer bank transfer tbh , I was just curious as if buyer specifically asks to pay paypal and then after bartering the price down then asks for you to pay fees is a bit much to my mind, not really bothered as don’t sell enough for it to be of any consequence but I was curious on the fact the seller want all the protection with non of the fees comment, not yours btw, its a two way street imo

To gain the protection that the fees offer to both parties. Anyway, it’s not rocket science to factor the fees into the asking/offered price.

No- if the seller wants PP gift then the buyer has no comeback.

Of course I’m not coyote I’m pretty sure I never even hinted at such I silly idea

I was merely throwing in the air my thoughts on the matter, if I want to sell and want to be paid via pp then yeah I’ll pay fees

but the other side was what I wondered, buyer barters you down on price no biggy then opts for pp over your prefered payment then want you to pay fees

No- if the seller wants PP gift then the buyer has no comeback.

So, if the buyer wants the protection offered by ‘normal’ PayPal, they factor the fees into the offer price. If the seller won’t accept that price, then the buyer walks away.

[sorry for the numpty Q…]

so what is the alternative to PP gift? Just “Purchase – Goods”? Who pays fees in that situation? Both parties?

so what is the alternative to PP gift? Just “Purchase – Goods”? Who pays fees in that situation? Both parties?

If sellers just factored in the fees [like they do with postage] with their price, it would make it very simple.

So, if the buyer wants the protection offered by ‘normal’ PayPal, they factor the fees into the offer price. If the seller won’t accept that price, then the buyer walks away.

The additional issue is you also get people who jump allover the sale. dibs! etc etc- people are still frantic/must have’ etc mentality. Thats how come you still get people being ‘had on STW classifieds.

Thats how come you still get people being ‘had on STW classifieds

I’ve been guilty of that.

bought a £100 Lynskey on here last week.

if I’d dithered checkign history etc it would have gone.

OK, I like the idea of providing positive or negative comments on the original thread so I’m going to adopt that with immediate effect.
“Received, thanks” etc. is all it needs.
I’ll even go back and do a few retrospectively if I’ve got time.

I have no problem paying by PP gift if I’ve got the warm fuzzy vibe from the history/research, up to about the £50 mark. I fully appreciate that this is my choice and risk but have not yet had a problem.

The “community” bit appeals to me. I can’t make it so but I can encourage it, so I will.
eg. In response to a wanted ad I placed a couple of years ago, someone on here was kind enough to post me a part for nothing! He simply asked that I stick a fiver in his nominated charity at some time.
These are the type of people that I want to deal with. They make a community.
When the same guy offered to sell me something of a higher value a couple of years later, do you think I had any reservations about paying by PP gift?

Expect to see feedback from me in future.
Will you do the same?

if I’d dithered checkign history etc it would have gone.

Thats the risk that you took and it paid off. Doesn’t always work..

So my seat clamps not arriving then?
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/a-few-bits-bobs-sram-hope-shimano-raceface-cheap-for-quick-sale-1?replies=5#post-4329543

Never had any problems before and appear to have got too trusting, lesson learnt!

Wwaswas what was it a Lynsky seat post 😉

I think the feedback idea is something we need to see more and is a great idea.

I hold my hands up, I got back from work and saw the advert for the bars i’ve been looking for for quite a while dirt cheap and jumped knowing they’d sell quickly. The guy sent pictures fine and i’ve used PP gift for years on here with no problems. It was totally my mistake, the guy had been on here a day and had a few things fro sale – all the signs were there but I was too eager to see them – 100% my mistake.

This thread is simply here so anyone who wants to can help me try and get this guy who has been at it for ages unchallenged. If I could get an address i’m sure the police would take notice. I’ve rounded up a fair bit of evidence I will try and get sent in a email to both PayPal and the Police over the next fews days.

Pro29 frame, actually 🙂

small hole in nds chain stay from tyre rub, otherwise seems fine.

off to Enigma for a repair tomorrow and will have cost me less than £200 when done.

Sorry Rabbit looks like it wont. Hopefully the chap will see this a send them out to prove me wrong but several emails have been linked to him and if you check the Paypal transaction i’m sure it’ll tell you the money has gone to TTGVayZaa@hotmail.co.uk or Either Danny or Sean Madden. Google those emails and you’ll see he’s been at it for ages using the same paypals etc.

If anyone has an address for this guy let me know please.

Ah I vaguely remember seeing that and wondered what sort of price a repair would be 😉 nice work mate

I rarely even get an e-mail from folk saying “got the XXX thanks” so the likelihood of them coming onto the forum and finding the thread to reply on is remote.

*makes note to email Mark when wheels arrive*

😉

I do normally try to tell people I have stuff but I’m not 100% reliable.

I always assume no news is good news. I am sure if there was an issue I would hear about it pretty quickly.

Mister P – Member
I rarely even get an e-mail from folk saying “got the XXX thanks” so the likelihood of them coming onto the forum and finding the thread to reply on is remote.

I’d suggest taking action to reinforce positive behaviours and start giving the feedback, rather than expecting someone else to make the first move. Lead by example.

I’ve just spent five mins going back through my purchase history and adding feedback.
I’ll do some more later.

I ALWAYS acknowledge receipt of items bought by e-mail and confirm im happy with it. Since earlier this year I’ve also put a note on any FS threads about how accurate the item description was, how quick and easy the transaction was as well.

From my limited experience of being a seller it seems very hit and miss that people acknowledge receipt of stuff. Just bad manners, but its no great issue.

I used PP and paid the fees myself for an ‘unused’ iphone I bought on Gumtree. Turned out to be knicked so it has been turned over to the Police. It took me 1.5 months and threat of a European Small Claim to get PP to honour the protection – which I am sure because it was an off-ebay purchase.

If the OP is correct then why is this guy still posting?

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/superstar-chain-guide

Contacted him to try and buy. He talked fine until saw Andy’s post and has now disappeared and his post has gone too. Defo loooks dodgy.

He has just offered a refund via ‘Jamie Banks’. If you have bought from this guy or any of the above emails contact him now. Looks like he’s realised he’s been caught and is taking the decent way out.

He has requested that anyone who has bought from him email him for a refund as he has been banned from STW. If anyone does think they would like a refund send him a email. If everyone who needs one gets their refund we need take this thread no further.

Thanks for the email Ross.

On the case now

Ill post up here what response I get

Interesting…if i may comment,ive recently, less than a fortnight been partaking within singletracks for sale section, and so far have posted and sold(promptly)a dozen items. Id agree that there is an element of trust needed to complete successful transactions which scammers such as our subject, rely upon to proceed in rippin off the trusting and interested party..regardless of amount involved..these people are criminals, and as such dont care wether they may have been outed…few have any kind of remorse for their actions of depriving your man of his hard earnt.
There are alot of sensible suggestions as to how to better the process and of course similar tools as ebay should be put in place if the for sale section is to erradicate such problems.Alternativly end it and let people use ebay.
Regarding form of payment, common sense should always prevail and a seller not allowing options should be suspect.So far I have received pp ,pp gift ,and c.o.c the latter of course always prefreble but hardly ever practicle for the majority of buyers.in saying that i would never buy a whole bike without feeling it first(with my fingers)
As for small claims court,seriously its a joke. I think the people burnt should consider it a lesson and realize even though it may feel like a community,(as i have sensed in a very short time) there will always be a “scumbag” element espcially if theres an easy profit.
Well there we go. I need a bike mechanic to do my frame transplant in manchester coz i have no thumbs …nearly there with the bits and eager to climb aboard anybody in the local vicinity MCR with the skills an tools(xtr970 extactor thingy) welcome.