[Closed] Say goodbye to your wood burning stoves

Sorry wrong forum.

[url= https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/29/wood-burning-stove-ban-will-not-be-enforced-against-householders ]Old news & no need to panic..[/url]

Give me another free option of heating my house and i may consider a change then, But seeing as i live in desolate galloway and have free seasoned wood to burn i doubt i'd change to another source - i guess the argument for restricting stove use may hold more weight in a built up suburban area.

About time too. I spend my working days trying the make the world you live in a nicer place, cleaner rivers, air, land and water and you wood burners want to go back to the industrial revolution levels of smog and crap in the air.

Just keeping you in a job,

Bit like when the cleaners in school used to moan that we had made "too much of a mess" ^^

Is the shite that comes out of my kerosene fuelled boiler better than what comes out of my stove?

Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary, is to launch a consultation in the New Year which will examine pollutants caused by wet wood and smoky coal.

I wonder what Michael Gove uses to heat his house (apart from burning human souls of course).

Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary, is to launch a consultation in the New Year which will examine pollutants caused by wet wood and smoky coal.

People are burning wet wood? What with, an Oxy Acetylene torch?

you wood burners want to go back to the industrial revolution levels of smog and crap in the air.

McMoonter probably is.

Meh... *flings another couple of 26" High Rollers on the fire*

^^Best thing for them.
No point in filling up the local tip.

Mine is excellent ...
And I look up at all the A380s flying people off to Dubai for the weekend ...
And the cars on the A27 ...

Blimey you lot really have no idea do you?

I raised something on here a couple of weeks ago. It turns out my neighbour doesn't have certified installation and the council don't know if it's a DEFRA stove. He has now to get it 'certified' - I've saved the ass killing his family !!

We are in a clean air area and he was burning any old 'sheite' up it. That's now stopped as the council went round. Bob the dodgy builder.

My mate at work lives in an area where there are no clean air rules, but he has a DEFRA log burner that is certified.

Better/firmer controls are needed, for sure. But existing rules for burning rubbish and building materials outdoors are so meekly/weakly enforced in my area, I suspect that might be worth addressing sooner.

Anyway, a good short summary of current discussions for anyone who agrees that they may "have no idea".

http://blog.policy.manchester.ac.uk/posts/2017/02/clearing-the-air-addressing-current-concerns-about-wood-stove-and-biomass-emissions/

Balls. Wood burning has existed as long as humans. Better to get rid of the pollution from holiday makers jets, recreational cars, computer powering electricity, pollution from making mobile phones etc. Things that create a problem not something that was here before politicians and environmental idiots were invented.

I'd guess that the gorse/Heather burn I saw last week puts more smoke into the air. It's a typical Government move sweat the small stuff.

Why if your house is on mains electric and gas do you need a log burner (and pizza oven)

If every middle class family in the land gets one, which appears to be what’s happening, then of course pollution will go up

How is mains electricity and gas produced Dunc?

This thread is hilarious. It's always someone else's problem isn't it?

I only burn tanalised offcuts and peat on mine. I've had it in 8 years or so, so way before the middle class trendiness. Do i also go to hell?

It must be oh so nice to cast ye judgement from the ivory towers (which I assume are on mains gas )

The rest of us who don't have the option of mains gas ....we must freeze ?

Perhaps I can rip the stove out and get the 3 open fires the house was built with reinstated

Why if your house is on mains electric and gas

It doesn't.

Will most likely end up in wood fuel having to be accredited, similar to how chip is for those claiming payments on biomass systems.

This will be a twenty page document that will require us to just tick a box to confirm that we store our logs in a shed before sale. No one will ever inspect our yard, which is a shame, because we probably exceed any requirement they could dream up.

Also spending my days making the world a nice place.

He has now to get it 'certified' - I've saved the ass killing his family !!

Wow. How did you manage that? Was he going to drop the stove on their heads? You must feel really smug.

Clean Air Act came about for a reason.

Log burners are fine, like diesels, in sparsely populated areas where the smoke can quickly be dispersed. They have no place in towns and cities. Nobody is saying that nobody should have them but that having one when there are more appropriate methods is just fashion and nothing else.

As an analogy there is a house 100m or so down the street from me, whenever it has its stove on you can smell it. Fine in small doses but if everyone was doing it there would be issues.

As for how electricity is generated, in the main we seem to be using the decay heat of uranium fission and hydro power up here mainly, care to guess how much pollution that generates? Most of the country seems to be on gas now that the big coal stations are being shut down but even in a coal station you get economies of scale meaning it's far more efficient than your small scale burner and that's before you even get into lost heat and using back boilers to run a more efficient central heating system (radiation alone is not efficient hence the stove top fans).

Pollution like that there radioactive stuff that the only solution for is too bury in a big hole...yeah that nuclear fission doesnt produce any of that.

Epic levels of whataboutery on this thread 😀

I have a clean air act certified burner and so it can't be turned right down to the point you get incomplete combustion and lots of smoke. I live in a clean air act zone and can only burn smokeless coal. As the wood market is wholly unregulated I do not know how they will solve that.

Given the cock up with lying cheating dirty diesels that has resulted in no retrospective action or even a change in how emissions based road fund license, I doubt they will do much.

Enforcement of the existing regulations would be a start.

My Dad was telling me earlier this week that there is a real shortage of hardwood logs for sale with the local supplier ..
We live on the edge of one of Europe's largest man made forests 😯 !

As you say timber, I could see an accreditation system for wood fuel sellers being brought in. IF it were done well it could achieve an improvement. However its done it would likely push prices of wood up a chunk which might reduce the amount burnt by those that have a choice.

Looking at Scandinavian countries they burn loads and have made big strides by education of the user and better stove technology. I'd happily not burn on bad air days if they were well announced.
New stove regs come soon..err 2022? Not quite sure, bit there is something to be said for stopping the sale of older stoves that don't comply, not just leaving it to the user to make an informed choice.

We live on the edge of one of Europe's largest man made forests

It’s pine though.

Squirrel king, what is it you smell from your neighbour? I can smell a distinct smell from 2 or 3 close neighbours burning coal, a smell that makes me think of steam engines. When I burn wood it is usually odourless, other than for a few minutes sometimes after a new log, but then I season my own wood for 2+ years and run my stove hard, very hard. Being a DEFRA approved stove it is hard to run it slow, but I ensure I don't. Perhaps your neighbour doesn't run the stove well.

My view is stoves are great, if run sensibly. I do understand that there are plenty of fools that don't and education can make limited impact, stove design limited impact, regulation limited impact unless backed by enforcement.... Which leaves the blanket ban, that would be a shame in my view.

Yes ..the majority belongs to the Pine family ..Sitka Spruce to be exact ..however there is still a significant area of deciduous woodland with more being given over each year ..
Your point being ?

A bit of myth busting education about softwood Vs hardwood would possibly be good. Soft wood seasons faster, is readily available, and burns hotter and cleaner once dry. Hardwood has its place too but so many uneducated users chasing hardwood combined with sellers without the space to season 2-3 years and we get a lot of damp Oak, Ash etc going in stoves

Yes ..the majority belongs to the Pine family ..Sitka Spruce to be exact ..however there is still a significant area of deciduous woodland with more being given over each year ..
Your point being ?

It’ll take decades for the hardwood to grow, Kielder is about 90% pine if not more. Your comment about being the shortage despite where you live is void, the man-made pine forests are very much one of the main reasons why there's a shortage.

but then I season my own wood for 2+ years and run my stove hard, very hard

I think that is the most pretentious string of words I have EVER had the misfortune to read.

A bit of myth busting education about softwood Vs hardwood would possibly be good. Soft wood seasons faster, is readily available, and burns hotter and cleaner once dry

There's a certain irony in this post. The hardwood vs softwood argument isn't as simple as this. Myth busting education is indeed needed. 😉

environmental idiots

Well this idiot has been working with people who have spent their entire careers ensuring there isn’t horrific chemicals and pollution in rivers and groundwater so you can have clean water, fish in the streams and kids/adults can use that water without becoming ill. One colleague was recognised earlier this year for turning one river from an open septic sewer to a stream which you can canoe down, there’s fish in there now and you can pretty much drink it without treatment.

My work involves me working with companies to make sure they don’t poison the ground and air around them, and spending months building cases to ensure people who commit environmtal crimes are brought to justice. You know, people who will gladly dump toxic chemicals and asbestos where kids play and in the countryside.

You live a healthier and longer life, without chronic respiratory issues or bodies poisoned with lingering environmental problems.

So I might be an “environmental idiot” in your eyes, but at least I’m not a selfish cretin. Keep burning stuff if you want, and wait for me to knock on your door one day, I’ll enjoy every second of it.

Well newrobdob, while I applaud your intent, this:

wait for me to knock on your door one day, I’ll enjoy every second of it.

just makes you sound like someone who flunked police school.

Sorry, but with posts like that you're very unlikely to change people's minds. You'll probably achieve quite the opposite.

Mine is excellent ...
And I look up at all the A380s flying people off to Dubai for the weekend ...
And the cars on the A27 ...

That kind of thinking is why we're screwed as a species.

wrightyson - Member
I only burn tanalised offcuts and peat on mine. I've had it in 8 years or so, so way before the middle class trendiness. Do i also go to hell?

😯

Treated timber, when burnt, let off all sorts of poisonous chemicals. It’s reallt really bad and you should not do it at all.

just makes you sound like someone who flunked police school.

Sorry, but with posts like that you're very unlikely to change people's minds. You'll probably achieve quite the opposite.

I probably would flunk it. Never tried though. I just can’t stand people’s attitudes towards the environment, they complain on forums like this one about things like VW and the emissions scandal, only buying locally, buying natural products etc etc but when it comes to making a status symbol like a log burner at risk they suddenly don’t care any more.

One stand out thing at university was when I was studying indoor pollution. The professor who was an expert in it said he’d never have a fire in his house because they were so bad for your health. That’s before the smoke even gets outside!

Drac
I would hardly call the planting of in excess of 100k+ of hardwood trees each year insignificant ..but despite this there is still a considerable area of mature deciduous woodland ...
Conceding to your point that there is currently in excess of 90% ( 98% ) pine..this still means that there is 5 square miles of hardwood trees within the forest..eventually this will increase to 8% of the total forest
The point I was making was that even the supplier who has access to this timber is finding it difficult and more expensive to source and supply ..
I really hadn't envisaged having to justify in such great detail my original comment .
Fortunately my pops has his own private woodland to go at.. 😀

The point I was making was that even the supplier who has access to this timber is finding it difficult and more expensive to source and supply ..

Which is very valid and makes more sense.

I use to get my wood for free just had to seek it and cut, now the wood I buy often comes from the same sources I was wood from.

Squirrel king, what is it you smell from your neighbour? I can smell a distinct smell from 2 or 3 close neighbours burning coal, a smell that makes me think of steam engines. When I burn wood it is usually odourless, other than for a few minutes sometimes after a new log, but then I season my own wood for 2+ years and run my stove hard, very hard. Being a DEFRA approved stove it is hard to run it slow, but I ensure I don't. Perhaps your neighbour doesn't run the stove well.

Definitely wood, they have it laid out in their front porch thing (50's quarter villa/mews flat depending where you live) plus no sulphur as per coal. As you say though they could be running it badly.

Pollution like that there radioactive stuff that the only solution for is too bury in a big hole...yeah that nuclear fission doesnt produce any of that.

I didn't say waste free, I said pollution free.

pollution
p??lu??(?)n/
noun
the presence in or introduction into the environment of a substance which has harmful or poisonous effects.

If radioactive waste got introduced into the environment then we'd be in big trouble. FWIW burning coal releases several times more radioisotopes than a nuclear station would ever be allowed to before being shut down.

but when it comes to making a status symbol like a log burner at risk they suddenly don’t care any more.

That's it for me. Burners are fine when used sustainably but as soon as they become status symbols for people who don't really know how to use them or need them they should be regulated.

I just can’t stand people’s attitudes towards the environment

Sure, very noble (and fwiw I agree where there's a sensible alternative source of heat and it's a built up area), but surely you must understand that saying things like that will just antagonise people, rather than engender them.

This thread needs more edukator.

The middleclasstrackworld angst is strong here. We'll have to prise their stoves from their cold dead hands!