Home Forums Bike Forum Sand in new bike/Certini, weird response…

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  • Sand in new bike/Certini, weird response…
  • 1
    ogden
    Free Member

    So I got a brand new SL7 2 weeks back from Certini Birmingham via C2W. I’d been waiting for some parts to arrive so haven’t ridden the bike yet.

    Bike arrived the stock wheel had a scratch that had been sharpied over by the look of it….wierd but ok…wasn’t planning on using them anyway and the gave me a few quid refund, fair.

    Had waited for invisiframe black friday so I’ve fit the invisiframe the last few days and my new Rapide handlebar arrived today. So I drop the forks to put some foam noodles over the cables and their is sand all over the headset and fork…. take the cranks out all over the BB area as well…..

    Called up Certini who claimed to to a QC check before sending it…despite missing the damaged rim… basically accused me of lying and that I must have been riding the bike the last two weeks. “What you do you want me to do about it?”

    Baffled why it is in there but also baffled by the blokes weird attitude and response. I mean the rest of the bike was spotless and doesn’t it doesn’t look like it has been ridden but scratched wheel and sand inside the frame just seems really odd and I don’t know how the can have missed any of it if it has gone through any QC.

    Not often taken aback but what a strange going on. All this after my first SL7 from Evans arrived with a massive crack smash in it.

    Anyone seen anything like this before, do the sand blast the inside of the frame during manufacturing?

    I don’t know how that much sand would get in there even if it had been ridden.

    I just can’t get over how rude he was.

    chakaping
    Full Member

    You’re not having a lot of luck, are you?

    Maybe this one was in a shipwreck?

    3
    tpbiker
    Free Member

    Wtf? Is it definitely sand and not something left over from the manufacturing process? It certainly shouldn’t be in there whatever it it, but maybe drop spesh a line and ask, the customer service is usually excellent

    That headset bearing looks like mine did after 2 years of riding it!

    davros
    Full Member

    Definitely sand and not some other material from the manufacturing process? Not that it should be there.

    1
    finbar
    Free Member

    That is really weird. From that photo on the bearing it looks too consistent to be road sand, more like a blasting media. I definitely think it must be from the manufacturing process or factory somehow.

    I’d imagine once you’ve wiped the bearings down (and stuck a hoover in the frame!) it won’t cause any issues, but the rude treatment from Certini does sound well off.

    2
    ogden
    Free Member

    That is really weird. From that photo on the bearing it looks too consistent to be road sand, more like a blasting media. I definitely think it must be from the manufacturing process or factory somehow.

    I’d imagine once you’ve wiped the bearings down (and stuck a hoover in the frame!) it won’t cause any issues, but the rude treatment from Certini does sound well off.

    I mean that is what I was thinking, possibly a clump of blasting media in the frame had dislodged during transit and clovered the greasy bits inside the frame.

    The lady who I dealt with at first to sort the Cycle to work was lovely and got it sorted really fast, to the point I was going to leave a review saying how good they were but I can’t believe the response from the fella at the Birmingham store, to the point where I said are you accusing me of lying and he said “what do you want me to do about it” Bonkers. What would I be trying to achieve.

    2
    hopefiendboy
    Full Member

    Any dealings I’ve had with Certini have been great, so maybe you’d just caught someone on a bad day!

    chestrockwell
    Full Member

    Original paint damaged so stripped and re-painted at some point? I’ve certainly had stuff back from the powder coaters in similar condition although this obviously hasn’t been powder coated!

    3
    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    Original paint damaged so stripped and re-painted at some point? I’ve certainly had stuff back from the powder coaters in similar condition although this obviously hasn’t been powder coated!

    That was my first thought as well, that maybe the frame has done two laps of the painting production run after something went wrong.   Or maybe they are blasted to key the surface and a bung stopping it getting inside the frame had become dislodged.

    “What you do you want me to do about it?”

    Having once worked in a restaurant I can kinda sympathize with him. Sometimes you just reach a point with customers where you have to bluntly ask them “What you do you want me to do about it?” because they don’t actually have expectations that could be managed.    Some problems just fall into that category of being both trivial yet almost impossible to actually resolve in a sensible way.

    You could ship it back to them, they’ll wipe it with a wet-wipe, and ship it back again, it’ll be a faff, you’ll be another week without a bike, and you’ve already got it in pieces so could just do it now?

    I was once asked for a soup spoon, the restaurant didn’t have soup spoons (just bog standard knives, forks spoons and teaspoons).  This eventually escalated to the manager, who told me to get a soup spoon (there still weren’t any magically appearing).  Until eventually I told him there were two options, either he could have to soup, or I’d take it back and refund it.  “No, I just want a soup spoon”……………  if there had been a shop nearby I might actually have left him with his now cold soup to walk there and get one, but there wasn’t, so stalemate it was.

    So, what was the answer?  What did you actually want him to do about it?

    1
    hexhamstu
    Free Member

    I would take the request literally:

    “What you do you want me to do about it?”

    What do you want them to do about it? Do you want a partial refund, which is usually more difficult as a shop employee compared to just agreeing to have the bike back.

    ogden
    Free Member

    aving once worked in a restaurant I can kinda sympathize with him. Sometimes you just reach a point with customers where you have to bluntly ask them “What you do you want me to do about it?” because they don’t actually have expectations that could be managed. Some problems just fall into that category of being both trivial yet almost impossible to actually resolve in a sensible way.

    You could ship it back to them, they’ll wipe it with a wet-wipe, and ship it back again, it’ll be a faff, you’ll be another week without a bike, and you’ve already got it in pieces so could just do it now?

    I was once asked for a soup spoon, the restaurant didn’t have soup spoons (just bog standard knives, forks spoons and teaspoons). This eventually escalated to the manager, who told me to get a soup spoon (there still weren’t any magically appearing). Until eventually I told him there were two options, either he could have to soup, or I’d take it back and refund it. “No, I just want a soup spoon”…………… if there had been a shop nearby I might actually have left him with his now cold soup to walk there and get one, but there wasn’t, so stalemate it was.

    So, what was the answer? What did you actually want him to do about it?

    What do you want them to do about it? Do you want a partial refund, which is usually more difficult as a shop employee compared to just agreeing to have the bike back.

    Do you know what, I don’t know really know what I expect them to do, but to receive a bike with a £3k+ rrp full of grit and to be accused of lying, no apology or even any understanding that I could be aggrieved by it isn’t what I was after either. There wasn’t even the slightest suggestion of a solution though.

    1
    cokie
    Full Member

    Not sure I can help, but I once bought a Kindom frame that had over 120g of sandblasting media in the frame. Took me hours to get it out the frame whilst doing a great impression of a rain stick.

    51pUH56hSgL._AC_UF1000,1000_QL80_

    Back to your problem- i wasnt even aware of a process that involves sand during carbon frame production. Really odd as it all seems internal. All i could think of would be poor envionmental conditions during assembly.

    swdan
    Free Member

    Are you sure it was brand new and not a test bike they’ve cleaned and put new tyres etc. on. Don’t know why they would do that but also don’t know why there would be sand in it.

    Also, kinda want to know whether the guy ate his soup in the end?

    1
    ogden
    Free Member

    Are you sure it was brand new and not a test bike they’ve cleaned and put new tyres etc. on. Don’t know why they would do that but also don’t know why there would be sand in it.

    Also, kinda want to know whether the guy ate his soup in the end?

    Everything else was spotless so I don’t think so. It must be some sort of blasting media left over from the manufacturing process inside the frame. You can see in the photos, there is no dirt or water marks present at all, just dry, uniform, sandy gritty, blasting media(?) or media suspended in grease, no water, dirt or muck. It is either clean inside the frame with dry granules or granules that have mixed with grease. Had it been anything else it would be filthy and any grease would have changed colour or washed away.

    Problems happen, it is how you deal with them and talk to people… Perhaps Certini as a whole aren’t normally like this, fair enough, but this bloke didn’t come across as someone having a bad day, just accusatory and unbelievably rude.

    a11y
    Full Member

    Sounds like blasting media. Shouldn’t obviously be in there and perhaps shows that a PDI isn’t exactly giving the bike a full going over like it should (or claims to do).

    Certini – they sent me the incorrect amount of Stans tyre jizz in a recent order (confusion over what a ‘quart’ is). Resolved immediately with replacement sent next day, and they said to keep the original incorrect bottle. Impressed on that occasion.

    Also, kinda want to know whether the guy ate his soup in the end?

    I’m imagining this guy being like the subject of this ‘Warner-ism’:

    Rob W

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    Also, kinda want to know whether the guy ate his soup in the end?

    I think I just gave him a comment / suggestion card (this was before the days of trip advisor), I can only assume he must have begrudgingly eaten his soup with a generic spoon.

    It was on a National Trust property so despite being very middle class and posh there were no tips as everything was paid for at the till.  I think in over a year of working there I once got £2 (and I tried to refuse) for carrying someone’s tray out to the car park as their wife was too old to get out the car, even for a miserable old (but younger) git like me that was heart melting.

    Do you know what, I don’t know really know what I expect them to do

    I wasn’t having a go, I’d be irritated by sand in my bottom bracket as well.  But from the other side of the fence, then to actually make customers happy needs both the customer to know what they want, and what they want to be achievable / sensible.

    In your case (having already got a few quid back for the scratched rim) I’d probably have poked some compressed air up the frame tubes to blow out any remaining grit, then wiped off the bearings with an oily rag and chalked it up as one of those things.  The guy on the other end of the phone hundreds of miles away can’t do much about it, and TBH people buying bikes, riding them, realizing that they’re not immediately transformed into Peter Sagan, getting buyers remorse and wanting to get a partial / refund on spurious grounds probably isn’t all that unusual?  I’m not excusing them being rude, but I can see how he could end up there.

    TroutWrestler
    Free Member

    Could it have been a return that was accidentally issued to you. I once had this with a tent. Ordered it and went to collect. I was given the tent but when I in packed it it was soaking wet and covered in grass, with a faulty air tube.

    Essentially, the wrong one had been given to me.

    Also had second- hand forks sent out as a warranty replacement by CRC. Refused the first set as they were clearly dirty – dirt up the steerer, and the second were only marginally better. I should have just sent the originals to Fox.

    tjagain
    Full Member

    “what do you want me to do about it”

    “Either refund the bike and collect it or send me a new BB and headset to fit as both will be compromised” would be my answer

    1
    ogden
    Free Member

    I wasn’t having a go, I’d be irritated by sand in my bottom bracket as well. But from the other side of the fence, then to actually make customers happy needs both the customer to know what they want, and what they want to be achievable / sensible.

    Thats all good an well but he was straight in, two footed, it is your fault, no other possibility, not let’s explore what this could be, why it has happened and what the solution could be. To be clear his “what you want me to do about it” wasn’t a helpful response, more of a tough luck, your fault, go away.


    @thisisnotaspoon
    I get you are trying to see if from the other side but I never gave any suggestion, nor do I wanted to return the bike or have any buyers remorse. More of a called the shop because my brand new, unridden bike was full of weird grit and WTF couldn’t believe how rude the guy was situation.

    2
    ogden
    Free Member

    “what do you want me to do about it”

    “Either refund the bike and collect it or send me a new BB and headset to fit as both will be compromised” would be my answer

    Yeah that should be the bare minimum they should offer like. Also, just because I can strip it down, clean it all and rebleed etc doesn’t mean I should have to.

    1
    rOcKeTdOg
    Full Member

    TbF unless the shop has built it from parts the PDi wouldn’t involve removing forks, headset and BB, it’s just a bolt check and do the brakes/gears work. that’s happened at the factory where it’s assembled.

    this however doesn’t excuse certini’s attitude to the situation which sucks, i’d try again and maybe via the phone and speak to someone more senior in the organisation

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Even if there is honestly nothing he can do, it’s a terrible customer service response because it vastly increases the chances of the issue being aired on social media.

    My concern would be that the headset/bb have been fitted into a grinding paste of grease and grit, which doesn’t sound ideal in terms of longevity, and it would niggle me enough to want them knocked out and refitted after cleaning and inspection.

    3
    robertajobb
    Full Member

    Interesting- I’ve got a 2020 model SL6. And guess what… I keep finding sand in it ! It accumulates at the lowest point – which is around the inside of the BB – where the internally routed shifter cables (exposed – no outer cable housing – but inside the frame) bend around / through the plastic guide block located in the very bottom of the BB before disappearing down the chain stay to the rear mech, and upwards to the front mech, respectively.

    1st time I found it filled up, I assumed it had filled up from the outside (that guide block is recessed into the BB but open to the outside).  So I taped over the block on the outside.  3 months later shifting was back to being shiiite again… took the tape off to find the block was caked in sand once again !  Happened 4 or 5 times to date.   Similarly sandy when I had to replace the head tube lower bearing.

    1
    BruceWee
    Free Member

    “what do you want me to do about it”

    I think after a question like that my answer would be, ‘Take the bike back and refund me.’

    It’s not really that perplexing for an employee to figure out what the customer wants, in this case.  There is a load of sand in their frame and they would like to know why.  Make an effort to find out why and get back to them with a possible explanation and any creative ideas you might have to make it right.

    Don’t tell them you gave them a soup spoon but they must have hidden it down their pants because they are obviously a deviant spoon thief.

    1
    ogden
    Free Member

    It was through C2W, I’ve already binned the bike box, fit invisiframe, swapped cranks for shorter ones etc etc so I don’t particularly want to send the bike back.

    Make an effort to find out why and get back to them with a possible explanation and any creative ideas you might have to make it right.

    Yeah that’s what I was expecting. As I said earlier problems happen, it’s how they are dealt with and my main gripe is how aggressively rude and accusatory he was before even contemplating it could possibly be anything else.

    Despite telling him the bike hadn’t left my kitchen since I got it he just kept saying well you must have ridden it, nothing I can do.

    To follow the soup analogy, I don’t want a soup spoon but the offer of a teaspoon might be nice ?

    fenderextender
    Free Member

    I just can’t get over how rude he was.

    People often are when they know they’ve **** up somehow, hoped they’d get away with it and been caught.

    1
    jamesa1
    Free Member

    I bought an SL7 Sport from Tredz. First one had what looked like a small crack in the top tube so Tredz replaced without question. The replacement (which arrived on Thursday) had a fairly inconspicuous scratch (which Tredz offered some compensation for – they would have replaced again but they didn’t have any stock left), but I then noticed it sounded extremely gritty when tightening the headset. I took off the stem and lowered the fork (as much as I can without removing the internal cabling) and mine is exactly like yours – covered in sand/grit!

    I’ve cleaned it off as best I can and reinstalled the headset bearings with a coating of grease. I don’t expect the grease/grit mix has done any favours to the headset bearings cups but hopefully no real damage. I was worried that the grit/sand would cause rubbing against the steerer tube, which could be nasty.

    No idea how the sand got there, but this has definitely lowered my opinion of Specialized’s quality control. I initially thought they might have used carbon paste instead of grease on the headset bearings, but there seems to be too much excess grit/sand for that to be the case.

    3
    chakaping
    Full Member

    thisisnotaspoonFree Member

    Username checks out.

    branes
    Free Member

    “what do you want me to do about it”

    All a bit weird. I agree I’m not entirely sure what I’d want them to do, but probably something like..

    What is it? Specialized should be able to tell them, as (as others have said) it’s probably some sort of manufacturing residue. Not just the crappy brush off you got.

    I think I’d want it cleaned out by them too, it’s not unlikely that it could get somewhere it shouldn’t be and cause issues. (Bearings, cables, axles, and carbon itself does not like being scoured at all).

    And/or at the very least a note that it won’t affect warranty.

    ogden
    Free Member

    I bought an SL7 Sport from Tredz. First one had what looked like a small crack in the top tube so Tredz replaced without question. The replacement (which arrived on Thursday) had a fairly inconspicuous scratch (which Tredz offered some compensation for – they would have replaced again but they didn’t have any stock left), but I then noticed it sounded extremely gritty when tightening the headset. I took off the stem and lowered the fork (as much as I can without removing the internal cabling) and mine is exactly like yours – covered in sand/grit!

    I’ve cleaned it off as best I can and reinstalled the headset bearings with a coating of grease. I don’t expect the grease/grit mix has done any favours to the headset bearings cups but hopefully no real damage. I was worried that the grit/sand would cause rubbing against the steerer tube, which could be nasty.

    No idea how the sand got there, but this has definitely lowered my opinion of Specialized’s quality control. I initially thought they might have used carbon paste instead of grease on the headset bearings, but there seems to be too much excess grit/sand for that to be the case.

    Weird that two of the same spec frame have the same issues but there is nothing online about anything like this before given it isn’t exactly a new design. In one respect it at least clears up that it is 100% a manufacturing product that hasn’t been correctly removed and I’m not a bare faced liar….

    IdleJon
    Free Member

    Is there any possibility that the frames were built as a batch, then shipped from A to B but stood somewhere that may have blown sand inside the frames? (I’m thinking that if a batch of frames were palletised but left outside during a sandstorm while shipping then sand could have got inside any wrapping. Just thinking out loud…

    1
    ogden
    Free Member

    @jamesa1 What date of manufacture is your frame out of interest?

    ogden
    Free Member

    Specialized got back to them and said it can happen from time to time and it is from the manufacturing process.

    Certini/Spech said I can take it to the closest dealer for them to sort, just a shame that’s a good 2 hours drive there and back and I’d have to leave it with them so I’d have to do that twice. At least I got an apology for being called a lier though I guess and the bloke will be held accountable.

    susepic
    Full Member

    Certini/Spech said I can take it to the closest dealer for them to sort

    Certini shop or Spesh dealer? If Spesh dealer closer sort it through your Spesh contat to go with that nearer shop. But I’d def get it sorted, make a day of it at Selfridges or watching Coventry

    1
    ogden
    Free Member

    @susepic Closest Specialized dealer. Easiest option is probs gonna be sort it myself. And as a Middlesbrough fan, I’ve had enough of seeing Coventry play the last few years!

    jamesa1
    Free Member



    @ogden
    Mine was manufactured on 20 November 2023. It uses the US date format, so looks like yours was made a couple of months earlier, which means it’s probably not just a single batch.

    Speeder
    Full Member

    What part of the Carbon manufacture process requires sand? I can’t fathom what would need “blasting”.

    There’s no reason for the sand to be there.

    razorrazoo
    Full Member

    What part of the Carbon manufacture process requires sand? I can’t fathom what would need “blasting”.

    Clean the frame and prep surface for paint (at a guess)?

    1
    ogden
    Free Member

    Mine was manufactured on 20 November 2023. It uses the US date format, so looks like yours was made a couple of months earlier, which means it’s probably not just a single batch.

    Such a strange going on. I’m sure there are plenty of people that dont see it straight away and just assume it is road grime by the time they find it. I guess at least Specialized didn’t try and act like it wasn’t their issue which is one thing.

    The manager at Certini said he’d get back to me in the next few days so see what he says now. As a note, everyone with the exception of Jon at the Birmingham store have been great to deal with.

    jamesa1
    Free Member

    Such a strange going on. I’m sure there are plenty of people that dont see it straight away and just assume it is road grime by the time they find it. I guess at least Specialized didn’t try and act like it wasn’t their issue which is one thing

    Agreed – I noticed mine because it was ‘gritty’ when aligning the handlebars, but I expect a lot of people wouldn’t notice that or wouldn’t investigate any further if they did.

    Good to hear Certini are handling this better now. Tredz have also been good for me.

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