Nice article from Teh Grauniad that I suspect quite a few of us on here would agree with:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/oct/14/risk-essential-childhood-children-danger

It did make me think though, when/why did it become “irresponsible” to let your kids play wild?

It did make me think though, when/why did it become “irresponsible” to let your kids play wild?

No idea first I’ve heard of it. I really do think it’s a minority who actually do this.

when/why did it become “irresponsible” to let your kids play wild?

Many folks perception of the world is very different from mine.
It seems that it is far more acceptable to be a helicopter or snowplough parent than one that allows your children freedom and adventure. 🙁

Illustrated with a pic of a kid with a badly fitted plastic hat FFS.

I really do think it’s a minority who actually do this.

Not in some of the schools we work with. 🙁

edit: The other related issue is the creeping race to the bottom of how safe an protected you can be. We read the ‘elf n safety gorn mad in the press, yet constantly allow ourselves to be drawn in so many subtle ways. And who can stand up and argue ‘against’ keeping kids safe or health and safety?

This, coupled with fears of litigation, is a powerful mover over time….

What’s a snoweplough parent? Is that different from a seagull?

@mattoutandabout to the forum please…

this is one of his favourite rants subjects 😆

EDIT – too slow!!!

I see there’s a helmet debate in the comments section…

What’s a snoweplough parent? Is that different from a seagull?

Snowplough parents – http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/nov/29/snowplough-parents-risk-children-cope-with-failure-says-top-head

There has definitely been a change in attitudes over the past 50 or so years I think.

When I was young it was quite normal for even young kids to play out unsupervised all day and come back for dinner. My mum describes how it used to be normal to leave your baby in a pram outside while you went shopping.

There is a guy in the comments describing how he would travel across the country, navigating public transport by himself at the age of 8.

There is a guy in the comments describing how he would travel across the country, navigating public transport by himself at the age of 8.

I’d probably say that wasn’t normal.

When I was young it was quite normal for even young kids to play out unsupervised all day and come back for dinner.

Me too. My eldest still does now as do many of her friends and other kids.

Knew you’d appreciate it Matt.

I picked the story up via the ”Get Out With The Kids” FB feed, don’t know if they are related to any of your projects but they do seem like minded.

And there was me thinking that snowplough parents were the ones teaching their kids to ski.

That would be parenting I would approve of. 😉

it used to be normal to leave your baby in a pram outside while you went shopping.

Yes, hours as a baby spent in the pram on the front doorstep so mum could ‘get on with the housework’.

it was quite normal for even young kids to play out unsupervised all day and come back for dinner

Yes, climb over the back fence, cross the railway line and spend the day playing soldiers in the woods with an old air rifle. Probably considered a bit dangerous these days.

travel across the country, navigating public transport by himself at the age of 8

Not quite that extreme, but at 14 “Mum, me and Ian are going to the York cycle rally” (400 mile round trip by bike) didn’t raise an eyebrow

What I want to know is where I can light a bonfire for my kids to feed sticks into. When I was a kid we had one in our back garden, but that’s not going to happen here.

Why not?

totally agree. I try and parent this way but even I know I don’t go as far as my parents did for me.

Your perception of risk does change as you age and get children.

When I was young it was quite normal for even young kids to play out unsupervised all day and come back for dinner.

Me too. My eldest still does now as do many of her friends and other kids.

So did I, however how many people can say in hindsight that they did some ‘high’ risk things. That perhaps the shouldn’t have done. Remember kids a Criminal record is for life, not just for Christmas…

Because we like having grass, and a bonfire will scorch a hole in it – that and there’s a trampoline and a den on the climbing frame, neither of which I want to be blowing sparks around.

firepit! nuff said

Go to a local country park with a firepit aracer?

We use these at work, with added vent holes, and it works well, leaving no mark (unless on grass) and the kids are great at starting and managing them.

We also use these – they last at least a dozen fires – and you *have* to eat the choccys beforehand…

Because we like having grass, and a bonfire will scorch a hole in it

I went camping with my daughter recently – the site used old washing machine drums for the fires to protect the ground, great idea as they already have the holes in.

Andy K has been quite eloquent on this subject about a year ago:
Radio 4

does this work?

Because we like having grass, and a bonfire will scorch a hole in it – that and there’s a trampoline and a den on the climbing frame, neither of which I want to be blowing sparks around.

Probably not much grass under trampoline, so maybe move it, have bonfire, move it back?

The things I got up to as a kid would cause pandemonium these day, I helped build the estate my parents still live on before I started school, would get up in the morning, Mom would do me a packed lunch, would cross the road to the builders mess hut, put my sarnies on the table at ‘my’ seat then spend the day with 2 Irish builders (and yes they were called Paddy and Murphy!!), they would let me drive the dumper truck, was up and down the ladder on to the scaffolding laying bricks with them, plastering the walls, even had red hot tarmac in my Tonka dump truck to help lay the road etc and the only time my Mom got a little upset was when we went swimming in the lake one afternoon as it was too hot to work!! These days those 2 builders would probably be accused of being nonces and the building site closed down due to a 4yr old working there, unqualified and unpaid!! When the builders left I packed my bag to go with them lol. In hindsight it was totally irresponsible by all parties but at the same time the dangers were always managed ie I was given leather gloves when tarmaccing, helped up and down the ladder and always someone with me when on the scaffold.

Would I let my kids do the same, probably not but would certainly think about it.

You think the UK is bad you should see Sweden. Kind of.

Not quite as extreme as votchy but my walk to primary school was a couple of miles through a “nature area” (waste ground), through the woods and a jump over the burn. Just me and my mate.

I doubt many kids do it these days.

These days I get the odd tut and head shake for letting my five year old ride her bike on the road (a quiet, residential dead end street).
Some schools have completely banned the kids from cycling to school!

Not quite as extreme as votchy but my walk to primary school was a couple of miles through a “nature area” (waste ground), through the woods and a jump over the burn. Just me and my mate.

Funnily enough mine too if we walked sometimes on my own on the way back.

Sadly I’m not aware of one, or anywhere else locally I’d be allowed to start a fire. There’s still the issue of sparks with anything in the back garden (I certainly remember lots of embers flying around when we had one). Need to find a campsite which allows fires (so far I’ve only taken kids camping on a bike or in a canoe, not taking an old washing machine drum with me doing that 😉 )

I do all sorts of cooking and small fires in containers across Scotland – in schools, parks, countryparks, canal sides etc. So far it took a good few emails to get permission in Aberdeen city centre (Fire Brigade saying they thought it was a great idea helped…!) and one person who chose to phone fire brigade when they saw a group of children round a small couple of fires, over seen by adults, in a school grounds as they thought it ‘dangerous’…
Forestry Commission are OK with fires – where is your nearest forest?

I remember this coming up before and me telling my wife how as a kid i used to be allowed out to cycle for ages and how we used to make camps in woods miles away from home… went to look it up on a map and it turned out my childhood definition of ‘miles’ was three fields away from home.
Point I’m trying to make is you can give kids a little bit of freedom and it can feel like a lot to them. I hope I’m relaxed as a parent when we get round to having kids, but i think the establishment is against it – so many mother hen types around.

I think this is a classic false premise “I’m an awesome parent, not like these other scaredy cat morons that run the country” column/thread.

Knowing what I got up to without adult supervision when playing out as a kid I’m not sure I should let my kids out. All pre about 10 years old…. Playing on building sites, derelict buildings, shinning up drain pipes to play on the roof, 2, 3 or sometimes 4 storeys up, climbing on bridges, getting chased and shot with salt pellets when scrumping apples, caught by the old bill for being on a school gym roof (collecting balls to sell). God knows what would have happened if there’d been had an accident as not always in the area that our parents thought we’d gone. Although the thing that felt most dangerous was going round the back of the warehouses where the gluies and druggies used to hang out.

I got tutted at last night for riding local quiet lanes with my 8 year old.

Groups like Scouts and Guides – others are available – are useful for giving kids opportunities that many modern lifestyles and parents don’t seem to be able to. We are fairly open to “risky” activities but our two have done all sorts of stuff we don’t have the time and skills to do ourselves.

I got tutted at last night for riding local quiet lanes with my 8 year old.

My 4 year old rides to school, and we’ve started to use some of the quieter roads as it’s a good opportunity for her to learn with me alongside her. Reaction has been a combination of surprise and delight.

When I saw the bonfire thing I was expecting a response among the following:

The fire brigade turned up and put it out last time (this happened to me in Wales when we organised a bonfire at a remote farmhouse I was renting)

The neighbours went nuts the last time.

There’s a petrol station over the hedge.

But no, it’s just a question of not wanting singed grass and worrying about a few sparks. That wouldn’t have stopped my dad; he set fire to the chicken shed on neighbouring land. Lots of clucking, lots of panicking adults, a big red fire engine – it was great!

Junior has played with fires in German feuerplatz and manages to get the wood burner going but isn’t the pyromaniac we were as kids.

and what exactly is wrong with wanting to keep the grass in good shape and not have burn holes in things?