Further to my other thread about trail vs enduro bikes I’m looking at forks. Currently on Revelation RLs with 150mm travel. 650b wheels, tapered steerer and non boost 15mm maxle.

Toying with changing from my current 130mm travel trail frame (apparently around 68 degree head angle which is relatively steep)to something more laid back / longer travel so thinking about forks.

Looking at the Yari and the Pike as replacements – probably in 160mm travel form.

Cheapest Yari I’ve found new is £435 for the Yari solo air RC in 160mm form.

Cheapest Pike is an RCT3 solo air 160mm travel for £529.99.

I understand the Pike has the better charger damper and the rct3 is better than an RC. But let’s assume my mtb abilities are ‘average’ – will I notice the difference in the 2 forks.

I also understand the Yari has the stiffer chassis from the Lyrik – would I notice this?

I think the Yari could be upgraded at a later date to a charger damper which is another factor at play here – and would then be better than the Pike downhill / in rock gardens – with the downside being a bit more weight

What are people’s thoughts on the differences?

I bought a Yari about a year ago.

Working on a bit of misinformation I saw a Yari for £388 and a Lyrik for £700 and a Charger Damper for sale on Amazon for £100 and thought… hang on. (prices were lower last year)

Turns out it’s maybe not as simple as it looks. There’s a few parts that fit both Yari and Pike, but the damper isn’t one of them, and the cheap charger dampers for sale were the early Pike ones (which had issues I believe).

Anyway, I was a bit miffed that my plan to buy a Lyrik for £250 less was thwarted, but it turns out the Yari is a bloody good fork at any price. It’s not a ‘cheap’ damper unit, it’s an ‘old’ damper unit, a version of the Motion Control Unit they used in the 26″ version of the Lyrik, the forks I actually ran before I “went 650b”.

I’ve spoken with TFT, they’ll sell you a whole Lyrik Charger for £230 (the 650b version, not the kit for the 26″) and the you’ve got a Lyrik, all the other part numbers are the same. I haven’t felt the need, it’s been a wonderful fork.

I recently fitted a Luftkappe, it’s not a night/day change, but it’s a decent upgrade for not much money, more mid-stroke support with a bit more plushness at the top.

If you’re the type of rider who is really in tune with the way your suspension works, and could use the high and low compression settings, then maybe a Pike (or Lyrik) is the way to go, but if you can make do with just rebound and compression then the Yari is a great fork IMHO. Just keep in mind it’s the Lyrik chassis and not the Pike, so it’s heavier, but stiffer.

rct3 is better than an RC

I had Rev RCT3s and never used the total lockout, and rarely the threshold. I had Pike RC and cranking up the compression knob right round made them move very slow for climbing etc iirc, again I rarely used it. RCT3 will score you more enduro queue/car park points though, which is the most important thing in modern mountain biking.

FYI a Yari or Lyrik is about the same stiffness as a 20mm shorter Pike, so a 150mm 27.5 Pike is as stiff as a 170mm 27.5 Lyrik or 150mm 29 Lyrik.

If it costs that much to upgrade the damper in a Uari then I think I’d have to assume I’m too tight to spend out that money at a later date.

With the Pike not costing that much more on the offer I’ve seen then if I want a charger then I’d have to go for it now.

Just need to justify it to myself (and the wife). I would have my Revs to sell, plus a pair of Magura hs33’s and some Thule Wingbars so that would offset the cost a bit….

I have a Yari and it’s unbelievably plush. I’m going to stick some tokens in it to try and get a bit more feedback without having to put more air in if that makes sense. I’m used to my old Pike coils which were great but a bit more ‘agricultural’. I feel like my front wheel will go over anything with the Yari. I find it has enough adjustability and couldn’t afford the Pike. I drop the compression for climbing to lower the front end then turn it up a bit for descending for more support. My bike is 150mm travel in the rear and I’m glad I got the 160mm Yaris they feel just right.

I’ve got Pike RCT3s, lovely fork and a massive improvement from Revelation RLs.

I still need to have a proper with the settings, but even just roughly set they are very impressive.

joebristol – Member

I also understand the Yari has the stiffer chassis from the Lyrik – would I notice this?

Well here’s the thing, you’re currently on a relatively flexy fork- perfectly decent, and way better than a fox 32 for that, but definitely not stiff. Does it bother you? Stiffness isn’t really a better/worse thing, my 36s are stiffer than my Pikes were but I couldn’t really care less. I was always perfectly happy with the stiffness of my Revs too. But some people really appreciate stiffness.

(I think probably more people would choose stiffer than not… Though how many of them can actually tell, who knows?)

What other makes / models of forks might compare to the Yari / Pike in either 150 or 160mm travel with air springs? I literally know nothing about the other makes – thinking ones that would come in cheaper than the Yari ideally.

Where did you find the pikes for £530?! cheapest I can find is £630.

Go to Start Fitness cycles section. They’re oe ones with no manual or pump, but brand new. Only in 160mm travel, non-boost 27.5 and tapered steerer tube.

X-fusion sweep are great for the money, not far off pike performance.

Here’s the thing – I don’t need a new fork – just fancy one (the same as I’m fancying a posher frame with more travel / more laid back angles).

However I don’t want to spank loads of cash on he fork as I’m also saving towards a new frame at the same time. Got to be something that would partner a 155mm ish travel frame. So thinking 150mm / 160mm travel forks.

Likely to be battering through rock gardens etc and working on my jumping this year (when I get time) so looking for something stuffer / stronger than the revs.

On cost / poorer performance for sensible money I’ve ruled out Fox and other really premium stuff. So perhaps a shortlist is:

Yari
Pike
Manitou Mattoc Pro
Xfusion Sweep with rough cut damper.

Sounds like the Pike is the clear winner, but below that there are pro’s / cons to each fork.

If I go Pike I’ll have to wait a while. If I could get something sub £400 then I could get it quite soon. Can’t find a Yari cheaper than £435 at the moment. Manitou don’t seem to be sold by many places and no bargains.

Can find a sweep wih RL damper sub £400 – with the rough cut damper it goes just slightly over £400.

I’ve read up on some reviews and the Yari likely to be the stiffest – but perhaps he most basic damper. Read mixed reviews on the xfusion- and the manitou appears to be a compromise between the other two.

Where do Marzocchi fit into this category? I’ve got some old Bomber z1’s on a hardtail and thrhry still feel fairly plush considering how old they are – albeit a bit bendy.

Been looking some more and have a few more thoughts / questions.

Pike RC vs pike rct3 – is the difference very noticeable – understand rct3 has low speed compression damping that’s adjustable. Is this just to help control how much the fork dives over say slow drop offs? Currently on Revs RLs which don’t have this feature – just a generic compression dial on one leg that I always leave fully open.

Might add Lyrics to the mix if I can find a bargain – are they a big step up over pikes / what’s the difference apart from stiffer lower legs / bit heavier? Think it’ll be a 160mm fork I go for.

Piles are on merlin for 399

I believe the RC has the same damper and low speed compression adjustment, it just doesn’t have the three position open/pedal/lock compression presets (which I rarely use). The Lyrik has a larger negative spring so will be a bit softer off the top and firmer through the middle than a stock Pike (but a Pike with Luftkappe is more so).

Increasing low speed compression reduces bobbing when pedalling, pumping, pre-loading at the expense of small bump compliance. Landing any drops or jumps will always open the high speed circuits.

Not sure if I ‘need’ an rct3 over an RC then in all
probability.

Found pikes for £399 at crc the other day but only in 140mm travel and you need to add on about £60 ish for a longer airshaft and fitting based on my revelation experience. Not sure if I can bothered with the faff.

Also note they were the dual position ones which reviews online suggested aren’t as good as the solo air ones. Not sure why that is though.

Also note they were the dual position ones which reviews online suggested aren’t as good as the solo air ones. Not sure why that is though.

There are non-dual position ones here http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/rockshox-pike-rc-solo-air-forks-2015/rp-prod139521

So you only have to deal with the airshaft change, you may luck out and find someone willing to swap one, I swapped with someone else on here once at no cost.

Good spot – I assume they have long enough stanchions to extend – guess a quick call to crc should clear that up.

Want to decide which bike I’m upgrading to before purchasing new forks. If I go for an AirDrop edit I’ll buy new frame and forks and use my existing bike parts from my current bike.

If i go Bird Aeris I might sell my entire bike as it is and buy a full built Aeris 145 as it has boost rear spacing and my current wheel won’t fit.

rct3 is better than an RC

That is very debatable.

What’s debatable about rct3 being better than RC?

What’s debatable about rct3 being better than RC?

It’s got an extra turny thing that a lot of us don’t use. Anything else? 😉

Things better about the RCT3: It has one extra adjustment.
Thing better about the RC: It’s much cheaper.

It’s debatable whether things that are better about the RCT3 are greater than things better about the RC.

I see. Looks like an rct3 is about £70 more expensive than an RC. I fiddled with my suspension fork settings a lot for the first few weeks that I had them, then haven’t touched them since – but feel I’ve got them setup pretty well. Don’t think they’re too divey – they use most of their travel without blowing through it too fast. But I don’t have anything to compare them with except a pair of 98 Bomber z1’s that really need a rebuild.

I guess you can stop the pikes blowing through their travel with bottomless tokens as well as turning up low speed compression.

Joe

A new fork will be lovely no doubt. But how about spending a bit of your cash on some training to become a better rider?? You said you wanted to do jumps etc. Go to pedal progression in Bristol (no I don’t work for them) but I have done a couple of their courses which have been transformational. I reckon you’ll have more fun riding better than having a swanky fork. PS But I did change from Fox 32 to Pike last year and that was magic. Training and new fork was better than the new bike I was thinking about…

I’d like to do some jumps coaching as well in fairness. Just finding time to do it – where do pedal progression coach for that sort of thing? Not a lot of jumps around Ashton Court / Leigh Woods apart from a few smallish ones that got built just below the car park at Leigh Woods?

Guess Ashton Hill has plenty – will have to see what has been built there once they open it hopefully sometime soon. Last year most of them were quite extreme for someone not good at jumping….

Not a lot of jumps around Ashton Court / Leigh Woods apart from a few smallish ones that got built just below the car park at Leigh Woods?

The ones Pedal Progression built to run their coaching.

Guess Ashton Hill has plenty – will have to see what has been built there once they open it hopefully sometime soon. Last year most of them were quite extreme for someone not good at jumping….

Hence the small coaching jumps.

I can also recommend Pedal Progression training, not specifically the jumps and drops course as I’ve not done that one, I had other things I wanted to work on, and yes it has improved my riding, though I still need to work on it.

All practice I guess. Pedal progression is whole day as a group for jumps / drops. Sounds like you spend the morning on body position and manuals in preparation for drops and jumps in the afternoon – £90.

Alternatively I could pop to CC or 417 project where I think they do coaching as well.

I did a 3hr 1-2-1 session which works out a little more expensive but I think better value, and I had specific things I wanted to work on. Manual, pumping and bunny hop technique are prerequisite to jumping technique, so you’ll get more out of a jumps course if these are nailed. That’s one reason I’ve not done the jumps course yet.

X-fusion sweep are great for the money, not far off pike performance.

This.
You won’t regret it and you don’t need the Roughcut damper (i’ve ridden both, the RL2 standard damper is fine)….mine was around £300, I’m sure if you shop around you’ll find cheaper.

Everywhere I’ve seen suggests the rough cut damper in the sweep. Is this a bit like motion control vs charger with rockshox?

Yes. It’s nigh on impossible to make an open bath damper perform as well as one where the air is separated from the oil by a bladder, membrane or IFP. If someone claims the reverse I tend to doubt they’ve actually compared them on the trails.

This.
You won’t regret it and you don’t need the Roughcut damper (i’ve ridden both, the RL2 standard damper is fine)….mine was around £300, I’m sure if you shop around you’ll find cheaper.

If anyone finds any as cheap as that, post them here before I stick my £400 Pikes on my bike as I’d happily save myself £100 😀
I searched high and low and generally couldn’t find X Fusion with anything like the same deep discount as the CRC Pikes.

This where I got mine
Mine were a bit cheaper due to the £/euro rate

Reading online reviews I throughly the sweep rough cut wasn’t meant to be quite as good as the pike – is that definitely the case?

These things aren’t always as clear cut as that – what’s the uk backup like for X Fusion if something goes wrong / you need spare parts? I know there’s a decent rockshox approved service centre place not too far from me that did a great job doing a lower leg service / change of airshaft for what felt a decent price.

@ joebristol theres some good advice on this thread – RC Vs RCT3? Well the actual difference between the two is they remove the pedal platform and beef up the last shim in the stack to make the lockout work – thats it. Im a great believer that less is more when it comes to damping – a good metered low speed port and a shim stack is all you need, adding ‘features’ usually comes with a downside. if you start adding in extra bits that aren’t properly speed sensitive, or impact other factors like rebound, what you gain in the feature, is offset in the performance of the shock overall. In the case of forks its even more so – climbing you don’t need a platform, hell you never need one as far as I can tell, unless you’re out of the saddle powering along a road at max speed, but then you have to ask yourself would you exchange better off road performance for being able to lock out a fork on a road? RCT3 forks preform pretty similarly to RC in open mode, so thats not an issue*, in the pedal modes though the off-road performance is compromised enough I feel that I’d not run them in that, and I never feel the need to put the platform on. We bring in both in most models to offer choice, but its not a clearcut one is better than the other, and thats before you factor in the price. I run RCT3 forks, but to be 100% honest I would be equally (if not more so) happy on RC, RCT3 is just what we had in the warehouse in the model/travel I wanted.

The XF forks are great, but the 34mm chassis combined with the fairly slim crown make them more flexy than the Pikes/Yaris/Lyriks, and the back up from RS is well beyond what you can find from XF in the UK. That said the XF HLR RC is a very reliable and well engineered fork (both quality and actually thought into the damper), so back up rarely needed. The other factor to consider is that the mahoosive amount clicks of adjustment, combined with a possible lack of knowledge in some consumer cases mean that its as easy to ruin your XF performance as it is to improve it! Also the fixed coil negative means you need oil to tune the spring, in itself not an issue but the farther you move from ‘average’ user settings in terms of your weight and rider style, the more difficult that becomes as its not a self balancing system.

* Its not an issue if you have the weight to overcome that first shim, its probably less awesome for really light riders.

Thanks Ben that’s great. Think Pike RC maybe the way forward then based on price vs performance. Will rule out X Fusion and Yari. Think unless I find a bargain the Lyrik will be too expensive to justify.

EDIT: I meant first shim not last. Doofus.

I guess at about 12 stone / 12.5 stone I don’t count as a light rider…..