protesting against the far right

If anyone is unaware of patriotpro’s views on this subject, may I point you in the direction of this thread?

Corner shop , or multiple retailer corner shop.
His coyness has become a little tiresome as of late.
Thanks.

CaptainFlashheart – Member
Agreed. “Direct action” can just drag you down to the level of the knuckle draggers themselves. Odious, spiteful, hateful little shits that they are.

No, sorry, you’re wrong.

You HAVE to stand up to some people.
I believe in total freedom of speech. No exceptions.
But with that comes the right to provide a contradictory point of view.

Some views are just fundamentally incompatable with our system of democracy and our ideals of freedom and representation.

Those who despise our tolerance and promote hatred.

Those who believe that their religious views are more important than our democratic process.

Those who threaten random violence.

My dad, aged 20, was present at the Battle of Cable Street.
(Not wearing black, btw, but as a young bloke teaching English to the children of Jewish immigrants).
Should he have just stood by and watched Moseley’s thugs run riot?

Rusty Spanner – Member
If anyone is unaware of patriotpro’s views on this subject, may I point you in the direction of this thread

Are you not over that yet Rusty? 2 shops, one owned by a member of your family, one by a non-family member. They both sell the same things at the same price, which one do you go to… 😉

Should he have just stood by and watched Moseley’s thugs run riot?

WTF were a rugby team so upset about? Had they just lost?

barnsleymitch LOL

Junkyard, the point you are deliberately missing is that an organisation is more than the views / nasty history of one person.

have you considered that you are just explaining it very badly/ are just wrong rather than criticising me ?

Could you apply this reasoning to the Nazi party ?

Is it your view the leader and founder of a party does not set its tone?
Please stop about Huhne it is a daft conparison and nothing like the EDL no matter how many times you repeat it

The rest of your post is just you misinterpreting what i have said and i assume not by accident
I am not doing any more of this and I still disagree with you. i will take it as given you disagree

Are you not over that yet Rusty? 2 shops, one owned by a member of your family, one by a non-family member. They both sell the same things at the same price, which one do you go to.

To be fair, I followed his link, and that’s somewhat different from the comment he was referring to. Nevertheless, in the context of THIS thread, fair play to you, and I have no problem with you being free to express those views, or indeed these views. Which appear to be different. Which is also fine.

Are you not over that yet Rusty? 2 shops, one owned by a member of your family, one by a non-family member. They both sell the same things at the same price, which one do you go to…

Family were not mentioned in the context of that thread.
You said:

patriotpro – Member

If the corner shop is indigenously owned then that – otherwise elsewhere.

Jesus, at least have some dignity at least & stand up for your convictions.

Junkyard. Happy to agree with you there: That we disagree. Apologies if you felt I was insulting you, I was meaning to criticise your argument, not you as a person.

Nice Godwin though.

thought it would be appreciated but it also made a point 😉

“Those who despise our tolerance and promote hatred.”

“Those who believe that their religious views are more important than our democratic process.”

“Those who threaten random violence.”

Care to be specific on which groups that fit this list you will be considering the benefit of your direct action?

“Some views are just fundamentally incompatible with our system of democracy and our ideals of freedom and representation.”

Yes but those that hold them have the right to speak them and long may that right continue. Because they can air their views we know that these people exist, to suppress them would be foolish.

Who decides what people can think and say, you? a politician? the police, Hope not.

Yes but those that hold them have the right to speak them and long may that right continue. Because they can air their views we know that these people exist, to suppress them would be foolish.

I COMPLETELY agree.

From my previous post.

I believe in total freedom of speech. No exceptions.
But with that comes the right to provide a contradictory point of view.

“Those who despise our tolerance and promote hatred.”

“Those who believe that their religious views are more important than our democratic process.”

“Those who threaten random violence.”

Care to be specific on which groups that fit this list you will be considering the benefit of your direct action?
I just had a quick look at the EDL About page. Looks like that’s what they say they’re all about. 😀

As previously stated, I take the far rights views personally, and have no qualms in standing up and saying I @$&#ing hate fascists. Hey, I quite like this freedom of speech thing!

I just had a quick look at the EDL About page. Looks like that’s what they say they’re all about.

Well, they would, wouldn’t they? 😀

‘I’m a scared, ignorant tosser, prone to violence & afraid of other cultures’ hasn’t got quite the same ring to it.

I subsbcribe to it but would have take up arms against Hitler

Perhaps worth pointing out Hitler founded the National Socialist German Workers’ Party, better known as the Nazi Party.

Socialists and workers, very intolerant bunch.

The edl are just another far right splinter group, bnp lite in all but name. Tommy Robinson (or whatever he’s changed his name to this week) was a known figure on the football hooligan scene before he formed the edl, and knew his target audience perfectly well. I’d perhaps think more highly of them if they were at least open and true to their own beliefs, instead of trying to hide their true agenda.

Rusty FFS how bossy are you man?!

Fair does I didn’t state family, but I have now and it’s apt, as you have conceeded.

At the end of the day it’s all self-preservation, interpret it any way you like, I will.

I’m now off for a beer, I suggest you do the same (you sound like you need it). 😉 Xxx

patriotpro – Member
Freedom of speech is for everyone, not just those you agree with.

Yep, well done. Now what does that have to do with people protesting against the far right?

It works both ways you see, I respect the right of the far right to march and say what they want, but they don’t like it when their pathetic gatherings are consistently outnumbered by people protesting against them. Poor lambs. But they can’t say “Please stop protesting against us because it makes it obvious what a tiny minority we are” so they use a claim of their free speech being impededed to try and shut down the free speech of those telling them to piss off, which is patently ridiculous.

patriotpro – Member
At the end of the day it’s all self-preservation, interpret it any way you like, I will.

Self-preservation…what?

Why give them the satisfaction of protesting against them?

Just ignore them like most people do – especially at election time.

There will always be hateful little people being hateful – mostly they are just looking to cause a a reaction – so don’t give them one.

They are an irrelevance (albeit a nasty, prejudiced and violent one). There are laws in place if they actually do anything physical or incite others to do so. Then it becomes a criminal matter – then the police get to deal with them.

If they ‘play by the rules’ then you can get on with your life and ignore them.

patriotpro – Member

Rusty FFS how bossy are you man?!

I’m not bossy – I just hate cowardly racists.

Fair does I didn’t state family, but I have now and it’s apt, as you have conceeded.

I have no idea what this means.

patriotpro – Member

If the corner shop is indigenously owned then that – otherwise elsewhere.

How does this relate to your family?

At the end of the day it’s all self-preservation, interpret it any way you like, I will.

I have no idea what this means either.
You obviously had a meaning in mind when you wrote it, would you care to explain?

nowadays i’m far more afraid of the centre right that foam at the mouth about benefit cheats, imaginary terrorist threats and europeans straightening our bananas. they’re far more of a threat to what i hold dear than the nf, bnp or edl could ever be.

Perhaps worth pointing out Hitler founded the National Socialist German Workers’ Party, better known as the Nazi Party.

Socialists and workers, very intolerant bunch.
No idea what your point is tbh and Hitler did not form it either..he was not even the first leader

The party was founded out of the far-right racist völkisch German nationalist movement and the violent anti-communist Freikorps paramilitary culture that fought against the uprisings of communist revolutionaries in post-World War I Germany….The party was created as a means to draw workers away from communism and into völkisch nationalism.[

It was not in any sense socialists though it did indeed use the word

interpret it any way you like, I will.

Ok I interpret it as you would base your purchasing based on the race /nationality [indigneosity??]of the owners as that is what you said. I would say you over use the wink – you claiming the edinburgh so early or you just sticking with re defining what you said ?

Just ignore them like most people do – especially at election time

Unfortunately some get elected
http://www.hopenothate.org.uk/hate-groups/bnp/councillors

Just ignore them like most people do – especially at election time.

nowadays i’m far more afraid of the centre right that foam at the mouth about benefit cheats, imaginary terrorist threats and europeans straightening our bananas. they’re far more of a threat to what i hold dear than the nf, bnp or edl could ever be.

Put yourself in the shoes of an Asian woman in traditional Muslim dress or a black/Asian person on your way home when a gang of these drunken EDL yobs roll out of the pub towards you and your local elected representative is an EDL councillor voted for by your neighbours.
It’s bad enough getting one of their leaflets through the door believe me.

free speech is a great thing.
the edl/nf/bnp have the right to voice their opinions.
as i have the right to call them a bunch **** racist **** shit for brains **** cock wombles.

I had my photo printed on one of the BNP ‘wanted’ sheets, as i had a bright red mohican i stood out somewhat.
We retaliated by printing pics of two gay skins kissing and posting them around the town 🙂

Facism is explicitly NOT a free-speech agenda. That’s where the free-speech argument breaks down. Groups whose ideology doesn’t subscribe to it can’t hide behind it

Put yourself in the shoes of an Asian woman in traditional Muslim dress or a black/Asian person

how do you know i’m not ?

i was involved in the anti nazi league and rock against racism in the 70s & 80s. i really don’t need you to preach to me about fighting these people.

anyhow, the point i’m trying to make is that the centre right are far more likely to affect the lives of people than the far right ever are (or were) by din to the fact that they actually make a huge difference at the ballot box. the sooner people wake up to that and fight it by using their votes, the better.

I am not really sure how you can argue for selective freedom of speech. Of course, it is an uncomfortable result of FoS that those whose views are generally considered objectionable have to be tolerated if we wish to enjoy the wider benefits. However, I think we get it broadly right in this country. We have laws that protect against FoS extending into incitment to violence, racism, sexism etc and that seems a sensible solution.

This leaves two obvious solutions to those that you find objectionable – (1) ignore them, (2) give them their voice and allow them to show just how stupid they are, especially when challenged. That seemed to work well a few years ago with Nick Griffen and QT. After all the fuss (which benefited him) he actually came across as one might expect when given the chance. He was allowed to dig his own hole and broadly speaking that is the best solution IMO.

how do you know i’m not ?

Your photo 😉
But that’s not what my example meant anyway.
I’m going to buck the STW tradition and not waste my time or energy arguing with someone I agree with.

Fascists have a long history of intolerance, racism, and anti democratic ideals– i’m with all who take them on….

I don’t agree with the poppy burning lot, but I fully support their right to protest.

Same applies to the far-right people.

This leaves two obvious solutions to those that you find objectionable – (1) ignore them, (2) give them their voice and allow them to show just how stupid they are, especially when challenged. That seemed to work well a few years ago with Nick Griffen and QT. After all the fuss (which benefited him) he actually came across as one might expect when given the chance. He was allowed to dig his own hole and broadly speaking that is the best solution IMO.

Thats OK when they are in places like a controlled television studio, where they can be challenged at a rational level. But history shows that they can rally together, intimidate and bully more into joining in. They need to be stood against in those situations as well.

I don’t agree with the poppy burning lot, but I fully support their right to protest.

Same applies to the far-right people.

Agreed. Right up until “taking a stand” turns to “taking up arms and dealing out a kicking”.

Violence isn’t the answer.

Agreed. Right up until “taking a stand” turns to “taking up arms and dealing out a kicking”.
Violence isn’t the answer.

But presumably you support British military involvement overseas?

Not always, no.

However, rather harder to compare a governmental decision to that of a group of thugs. Although, actually…. 🙂

rather harder to compare a governmental decision to that of a group of thugs

two gangs of self-important overgrown boys thinking that they are doing what’s right..

no difference whatsoever, other than their backgrounds

😀

I agree with your sentiments, the problem is that people face off aggression from the EDL, the BNP and the NF on their own terms. In an ideal world the far right could be defeated by debate. The truth is they are more interested in punching your lights out. So I think it’s acceptable, not desirable, that they get given a good hiding by elements of our society who won’t back down to bullies.

Yossarian, I suppose my point here is that those giving “a good hiding” rather lose some of their argument against those that are “more interested in punching your lights out.”

I’d just rather see people rise above them, not sink to their thuggish, brutish, pathetic level of violence.