Easy cycle to…..

To be fair, the most important element in a young childs development is the home environment. Kids that are supported in their learning at home will do OK whatever and this is particularly true at the primary level where the differences outcomes between a good and bad school are pretty minor. Paying for private education is a waste of money.

The whole situation becomes more complex at the secondary level when peer groups have a massive impact on learning, second only to parents (teachers are only 3rd). Decent kids who hang out with other decent kids will still do well but if they get in with the shitheads and the parents are ineffectual then chances are they have blown it. Its the secondary school that is the most critical period in a kids education for that reason.

So to sum up, save the cash that you might have spent on private primary. Use it to improve your credit rating so that you can move if needs be in the future, the schools might have changed in the next 6 years anyway and might be good. If the schools are still a worry then maybe think about private at that point. But remember that just because a school charges does not necessarily make the standard of education any better. There are crap public schools just like there are crap state ones.

Moving is unfortunately not an option. Although we have enough cash to pay for their education, we have a piss poor credit rating so cant get a mortgage.

Whats a mortgage got to do with where you choose to live?

But how times have changed, when we went to visit the local primary schools in our catchment area,we were both amazed at how big the class sizes were, how many schools didn’t have permanent teachers in place for the coming terms,and just the general feeling that the schools didn’t have any money to buy the things they so desperately needed.

The notice boards were full of up and coming events to raise money for this, that , and the other.

Surely this is a good argument for:

People paying more tax to fund the education system properly
Getting more involved with PTAs etc to help improve the school (Oh look that sounds like the ‘Big Society’)
Getting involved in fundraising activities to help the local school – if you can afford to pay for private education you could be contributing a fair bit presumably

It just depresses me that instead of thinking how they could help live in a better society generally, people just think of what’s best for their kids, and screw everyone else. State schools are never going to improve if all the better off parents that care about their childrens’ education take them off to a private school. This is just entrenching divisions in society.

Sorry I know it sounds like it but this is not meant as a personal dig.

And all the claims that the only snobbishness is inverse snobbery is hilarious. Unsurprising with all the ‘chav’ talk on here though. 🙄

Our son has been ‘private’ since the age of 3 (now 12), not boarding, just normal days. When he started it was cheaper than a nursery and we came back from me working in Germany and his English was ‘dodgy’ due to him and the toddler next door speaking gibberish together – so we want something that was more like school.

When he started it was about £4k pa, its now £12k pa (including the bus). We pay for it out of income, so its a line on the budget – but obviously does affect our other financial decisions. And compared to many at our income level; we live in a smaller house, run older cars and not-so many expensive holidays.

I’m glad we did it, and would do it again. And even though I lost a very well paid job for one with variable earnings, we see school as second to teh mortgage from a financial perspective.

We are also in a 11+ area, so if you don’t pass…

I don’t care what anyone else thinks about our decision nor about how we spend our money, and its not like we are the Blairs/Camerons who can get their children into the best schools, for free.

EDIT

And be careful if you wait, as usually entrance exams have to be set at later ages. My son though, has never sat one.

Having been brought up on one of the roughest housing estates in the south of England I was dead against private schools as I was sure that any local primary would do the job nicely.

Sent my eledest to one of the so called better schools in the area but to be honest 30 plus pupils in every class is not ideal and she was mixing with some pupils that were a very bad influence on her so she finished school with less than perfect grades.

I have since sent my yougest to a private convent school and to be honest it is one of the best things I have ever done, we have to sacrefice decent holidays and a few other things as we pay £600 a month as we spread the cost over the year but she is as happy as can be and cant wait for the weekend to be over so she can get back to school, the class sizes are no more than 12-15 and the majority of classes have 2 teachers.
So I would say if you can afford it go for it, dont get me wrong there are really stuck up pr***s but equally a lot of really nice ones but that’s probably the same in most schools.

My income was aslo halved at one point this year due to redundancy, I was in a very well paid managerial role but unfotunately the manufacting industry has all but dissapered in the south so no more managing for me, I have since changed career paths and will soon be earning a similair salary , it’s been hard but worth it.

Anyway good luck with your choice.

Nick

Grum +1

I’m alright Jack, pull up the anchor.

Grum thats just hopeless, idealistic, lefty nonsense.

Why should I be forced to send my child to whatever state school the government tells me to regardless of standard? Why shouldn’t hard working people (don’t read into this, I’m talking about average wage earners here…) be able to send their children to a better school than some of the ones being talked about on here (and also the disgrace of a school i went to).

Move to New Zealand. The state school system there is excellent.

Grum thats just hopeless, idealistic, lefty nonsense.

No it’s not.

The fact that private education exists shows that we live in a society where advantage and better opportunities are more available to those with the money to afford it. Bright and talented kids from poorer backgrounds very often don’t enjoy the standard of education their intellect deserves. This brings about the fallacy that poor people are ‘thick’ and incapable of high intellectual ability needed to lead, or fill the higher status roles. How many top earners in the UK are from poor backgrounds and went to state comprehensives? Not many, I’ll wager.

The fee-paying education system is yet one more thing that perpetuates the unfair class divide that still exists in our country. A system that favours those with money, rather than rewarding individual ability. Perhaps why our economy is in such a mess, and why we live in an increasingly socially divisive nation.

I don’t blame people for wanting to give their children the best possible education. Why shouldn’t they? But it shows that education isn’t the fair and egalitarian institution it should be.

Don’t all children, regardless of their parent’s wealth, deserve an equal start in life?

“Why shouldn’t hard working people (don’t read into this, I’m talking about average wage earners here…) be able to send their children to a better school than some of the ones being talked about on here (and also the disgrace of a school i went to).”

I think some of us think ALL CHILDREN – not just wealthy people’* children who given the advantages probably need it least-should be able to get this not just the wealthy. Education at 15 per class with 2 teachers is expensive. just think how much better the state system would be FOR ALL if we put all the money from private ed into it.
of course it is better but it is not fair nor a meritocracy.

Sent our son to private from the start to (currently) year 8. Don’t regret it at all. Just research it like any other purchase, and don’t care what others say. You want the best, which is fine and nothing to be ashamed about.
I’m sure everyone here will say all school should be as good (whatever that means) as private, but that’s never going to happen, however idealistic you are (and I’m not going to debate that). It certainly isn’t going to happen in the school lifetime of my (or your) child, so paying is the only option.

Sent our son to private from the start to (currently) year 8. Don’t regret it at all. Just research it like any other purchase, and don’t care what others say. You want the best, which is fine and nothing to be ashamed about.
I’m sure everyone here will say all school should be as good (whatever that means) as private, but that’s never going to happen, however idealistic you are (and I’m not going to debate that). It certainly isn’t going to happen in the school lifetime of my (or your) child, so paying is the only option.

Grum and Elfinsafety

Before you have a pop about how we are ‘buying’ success for our children, try looking at how much the state spends to teach the ‘average’ child – and you’ll find its not that much less. And then compare the cost to what you actually get…

I also think you’d be far better focusing your energies and attention on why the state system is failing many children, rather than what I (and others) do with our money.

You will find that the state spends more on each child than the parents of those who chose the private education route do. Shame they dont do as much with the cash.

The fact that private education exists shows that we live in a society where advantage and better opportunities are more available to those with the money to afford it.

Welcome to capitalism, communism has been tried…

Private school is within the reach of fairly average wage earners, some have posted on here about their experience.

Bright and talented kids from poorer backgrounds very often don’t enjoy the standard of education their intellect deserves

I’m sure some slip through the net but private schools offer free or subsidised places to smart kids that can’t afford the fee’s and we have Grammer Schools for those that pass their 11+

You will find that the state spends more on each child than the parents of those who chose the private education route do.

Show us some figures then please. I can’t find any despite Googling. Probbly ‘cos I went to a comprehensive, innit?

Lot of defensiveness from some folk on here. I’m not questioning your financial decisions at all…

Welcome to capitalism, communism has been tried…

Where? Not in the UK.

There’s always time for Elfinism….

Classic STW middle class angst 😆

What is it “you get” (or don’t, as I take it you mean) in state education b r?

It seems to be the usual story on this thread; those that agree get various supportive back slaps and “my kid comes first” patter; those that don’t are lefty/commie/idealistic/vegetarian/lesbians who following logic “don’t put their kids first”.

There’s no getting away from the fact there are some brutal state (mainly inner city) schools in this country, getting steadily worse as fewer and fewer bright kids are sent to them. There are plenty of others however that despite having to operate with one hand behind their back by having all these thick urchins from the schemes manage to forget about class and instead produce great results and great kids.

How about taking an interest rather than making those big social sacrifices like only having one estate car, or not making it to Val D’Isere this year?

What I get, or my son gets, is to sit in a class of pupils, all of whom want to be there, and want to learn. Whether that is because their parents have paid for it, or because of the home environment they come from, I couldn’t say. But whatever the reason, I’m happy to pay for it.

Private school is within the reach of fairly average wage earners

2/3rds of the UK population earn below the average salary. I’d hazard a guess that considering the average household income, which is what, around £35,000 per annum, and the cost per child around £9000 a year to send them to private school, once you’ve taken the mortgage/accommodation and food and clothing costs etc, I doubt whether most families can actually afford private education for their kids. Speshly not if you’ve got more than one.

What I get, or my son gets, is to sit in a class of pupils, all of whom want to be there, and want to learn.

So kids in state schools don’t want to learn then?

“Welcome to capitalism, communism has been tried…”

Ha ha!

@ grum i couldn’t agree more with some of your points,and i would gladly do my bit, for any school my child goes to,

but sometimes you just get a feeling that all is not well in the education department in general, and whilst i do agree with you that people paying more tax to fund the education system properly,is the way forward,i for one cannot take the chance that it will happen during my child’s schooling,

So we sold our cars bikes and piano just to get him in a good school,also please bare in mind that ive all ready contributed to the system via tax contributions . so the schools in our area,or at least in my eyes should be up to scratch, there not so we had to do something about it ourselves.

it stinks but we are by no means the only family in this situation.

Mb

People will allways defend their decisions on this topic. The have to convince themselves that they get something for all that money they pay.

Education is about far more than simple exam results and there are some interesting facts about this anyway. State school pupils with similar and a levels do better at university that private school kids for example.

State schools often have better facilities than fee paying ones – especially those adt the lower end of the market

Remember fee paying schools are a business.

To the OP – have a good look at the local state schools – on the whole I believe Edinburgh state schools are not bad. Big fee paying sector in Edinburgh tho that is very variable in how good it is

So kids in state schools don’t want to learn then?

Possibly not, but I’m not blaming the children, it’s just as likely to be due the the home environment.

It’s a constant irritation in threads like these when state education is referred to as worse than private or poor schools. I teach in a tough Liverpool school and still get A* from kids at GCSE and A2. I also have to teach future rapists, murderers and armed robbers. I’ve taught kids who go to Oxbridge Unis and kids who end up in prison. The education the kids are offered is excellent, the situations they come from can range from supportive and educationally enriching or the down right abusive. If I had classes of 15 with parents bothered enough to pay for their kid’s education then I’d sodding hope my results would be amazing! Instead I’ve got classes of 30 whose parents think school is an inconvenience on the way to their careers in dealing (I’ve experienced first hand the Y11 student walking out of a class ‘cos he can earn more in a day than I can in a week.)

Private school provides a rarified atmosphere and privilege but does not offer a better standard of education to students and families willing to learn.

AND education is not a one way street, it is not a customer/ provider relationship. Students and their parents have a duty to become valuable and contributing members of society as much as school have a duty to deliver that service…

Send your kids to private but don’t kid yourself it’s a better education, it just stops your kids meeting anyone working class.

Eh?

So, seeing as how your son goes to private school, how do you know about state school children’s desire to learn??

Elfinsafety, I went to an incredibly rough school, very few of the pupils wanted to be there. There were huge drug problems in that school and the teaching standards were atrocious. In my time at school I had to learn to catch chairs that were being thrown at my head and learn to run fast or fight well. The school that is closest to here is around that standard, if not worse. I want more than that for my kids – what is wrong with that?

I don’t want my kids to have to fight as hard as me and my wife have had to do to get a good education.

You clearly didn’t google hard enough. Primary education in england is funded at roughly £6k/pupil/yr. The school I am considering sending the three of them to charges less than that, not much less than that, but it is still less. It would take all of one of our wages and mean not having much in the way of holidays for a few years, but if it means our kids turning out to be good conscientious adults then it’s a price i’m happy to pay.

Eh?

So, seeing as how your son goes to private school, how do you know about state school children’s desire to learn??
Because my wife works at a state school. How do you know so much about any type of school, how many children do you have in school?

Ninety three.

“it just stops your kids meeting anyone working class.”

Bang on.

Thing is though – working class isnt the bottom of the class pile is it? There is a definite underclass in this country.

Some people like black grips, some like coloured…

Oops. Wrong quote, hang on;

You clearly didn’t google hard enough. Primary education in england is funded at roughly £6k/pupil/yr.

There we are. Care to show the source of these figures? Not disputing them, just genuinely interested.

I went to an incredibly rough school,

I was offered a sniff of glue on my first day at one secondary school! How friendly, I thought…

An underclass perpetuated by the opinions above, and teachers who are so committed to their profession, they don’t involve their own children in it.

I can’t believe my poor spelling earlier thanks Elfin for pointing it out.I must read things through before posting in haste!

Thing is though – working class isnt the bottom of the class pile is it? There is a definite underclass in this country.

Is there? Or is it a construction by the right-wing press? Can’t say I’d noticed. Maybe I am of that class! Yay! 😀

I can’t believe my poor spelling earlier thanks Elfin for pointing it out.I must read things through before posting in haste!

Especially if you’re trying to make a point about the standard of education…. 😉

Also from speaking to other parents, most would gladly send there kids to the school our child goes, but when we tell them how much it cost,and what we had to sacrifice almost every one said “fucX that” he can stay where he/she is.

Also at lot of parents told us how powerless the teachers were these days, and how the street wise kids used this every day to there advantage, 1 child in a class of 15 can be dealt with a lot quicker,than 3to4 children playing up in a class of 30,were led to believe that these problems are more secondary school based, which is one of the reason we opted to get him in now whilst he’s young, and we can afford it, rather than when he,s older and we cant.

Like i said theres good and bad in both arguments we just felt there was more good if we paid for it.

Brycey – Member

“it just stops your kids meeting anyone working class.”

Bang on.

You conveniently forgot to mention:

Monkeeknutz – Member

future rapists, murderers and armed robbers. ..and kids who end up in prison.

No, you’re quite right. No privately educated child has ever gone on to commit a crime ever. Well pointed out.