Anyone on here recomend a good training provider. Looking to do an on line course if possible

Ta for any comments

I did mine with AFA. Not sure they do an online version though.
http://www.afaprojects.com/

I use parity for most of my training. I think you can do the foundation levels as a CBT, but you will still have to attend a centre for an exam.

My knowledge is 4-5 years out of date though :0)

cant do exam online and no I cant recomend one ours was worst trainer I have ever had

Is PRINCE2 worth doing? As an out of work IT type it appears I might be able to get some help toward training courses, but all the jobs I am seeing mention Agile these days, does PRINCE address Agile at all?

I personally wouldn't bother, its not something employers look for on a CV.

Parity here. Expired now though.

I personally wouldn't bother, its not something employers look for on a CV.

Really? What industry? Loads of IT PM roles specify it, either as a direct prerequisite, or as one of a group of acceptable qualifications to 'prove' that you're a 'professional'. 😆

does PRINCE address Agile at all?

Not been part of an Agile set up, but I think Agile and it's ilk, and Prince are pretty much at the two extremes of management styles. That's a vague guess, mind.

IT maybe, no experience of it, Engineering not applicable. Experience is where it counts.

When I was changing jobs 3 years ago it was the most prominant thing on all the specs for senior IT management roles. The practitioner course was the best 5 days I spent in terms of getting my foot through the door for interviews.
Never use it though!

IT maybe, no experience of it, Engineering not applicable. Experience is where it counts.

Of course but its Chicken and Egg. If your company will send you on the course then you would be mad not to do it.

Not been part of an Agile set up, but I think Agile and it's ilk, and Prince are pretty much at the two extremes of management styles.

So, I'm right in thinking Prince is something used in very large (esp. public sector) projects that typically go over budget and deliver something so late that it is no longer much use because the world has moved on? Think I'll give it a miss then 😉

Seriously though, if it's something that's only of interest in the public sector then it explains why I haven't heard of it much.

Not sure I would agree with the idea that Agile and PRINCE are somehow opposites – they are more fulfilling different roles. We use PRINCE2 to manage a project but use DSDM to manage the development process – the two seem to both get along quite nicely.

the public sector they prefer it..

Dont know about IT etc..

not relevant for the cosntruction industry.

I personally wouldn't bother, its not something employers look for on a CV.

I run an IT consultancy practice that does a fair bit of public sector work and Prince 2 is definitely of interest to us when recruiting project managers and consultants.

Spending 10mins googling would probably help more on understanding the difference, for my 2 pennies Prince2 is more about the process of project management, ie. what steps to follow in certain circumstances, suggested templates etc… I tend to think of it more as 'project management by numbers' It's definitely falling out of favour at the moment, I think the industry is going through a bit of a backlash against ridiculous over documentation and specialisation.

Agile (& Lean) are more about how you go about doing things, building self managing teams, collaborative leadership etc…

Personally I've taken 3 OGC courses over the years – Prince2, MSP & MoR. I'd also recommend some of the ITIL qualifications.

I'm currently running projects using SCRUM (not got any formal qualifications in it) – 3 months in and it's working well so far.

If I was recruiting a PM I would expect to see at least some professional qualifications no matter how much experience they have.

I reckon the most useful skill or training would be some form of jedi mind control though…..

Done Prince2 and APM. Both are very good project management methodologies. APM is by far the more technical course. Prince2 is ideal for more controlled environments. APM is IMHO a better methodology for pm. Prince2 qualification needs renewing every 5 years by resitting the exam which is a bit of a con.

Lean is about doing more with less resource by continuously eliminating waste within the process. Agile pm is a less structured approach to software development.

https://www.apm.org.uk

All our new IT and business projects have moved to Agile, (a huge company). So not just for software

It's definitely falling out of favour at the moment, I think the industry is going through a bit of a backlash against ridiculous over documentation and specialisation.

Let's hope so.

I looked into Prince2, but it didn't seem to be any great shakes. The public sector is awash with 'practitioners' I believe.

Yeah Prince2 is heavily used in the public sector, I'd say private sector would be more concerned with PM experience although it could still be useful having a formal qualification to backup your experience.
If you want to do the course + exams quickly I'd recommend this place: http://www.firebrandtraining.co.uk/courses/apmg/prince2-2009 not used them for PM training but have done some MS certs there. I prefer the pain of 16+ hour days for a week and getting the exams done than worrying about doing extra study at home and taking weeks to getting around to sitting the exams.

I've worked in the Public sector as a contractor and PRINCE2 was wanted but in the 10yrs I've not used it to manage a project, just used it for reference and b*llshit buzz words

I got my qualifications done by a previous employer that had been sold on the dream. It's useful sometimes and it did tip the balance in my current job and make me stand out from other candidates.

Agile is not completely opposite to PRINCE2 but it's not easy to combine the two.

APM is coming more into favour in a lot of the public sector now. Mates with both said APM was far superior. PRINCE2 is still quoted, but there are far more PINO (PRINCE In Name Only) projects than anything else now.

In simple terms Prince2 and the other methadologies are ways to ensure everyone is using the same language when talking about elements of a project and therefore avoid miscommunication and the problems that brings, they don't tell you how to run a project, they don't tell you how to be a PM.

If you want to work as a PM in the Public Sector or as a PM in one of the major outsourcers (HP, Fujitsu, Cap etc) then Prince2 is definately an advantage as that is the language that projects are discussed in, are they all run as 'Prince2 projects'? No, in reality hardly any of them are.

To add, I'd be amazed if there had ever been a successful project run entirely within a Prince2 framework, things have to be adapted to work in the real world, it's taking the bits that you need and filling in the gaps that takes a PM who understands what they are doing.

I'm current working in the public sector which was very heavily P2 based when I joined, over the last year or so I've seen a real push towards Agile methodologies – so much so that many pm's claim their project's are Agile (or 'FrAgile' as some of the devs call it) despite the fact that they really aren't. This is leading to lots of confused customers & staff….

The company had a little play with DSDM 5 years ago, but basically sent all the pms on a course and then never really changed the culture/infrastructure to enable it to be a success so everyone slipped back to the old formal P2 / Waterfall way of doing things.

The other thing to think about, is that when you work as a pm all the gumpf in the P2 handbook is kind of common sense, because you do it day in day out. I think if you have little or no experience it is really helpful to get you started, but if you know your onions it's more about ticking a box on your CV.

Cheers for all the info above.
I have a great deal of practical experience at actually managing projects but the lack of any formal qualifications on the CV is def. not helping in the job hunting stakes.
I'll look into Agile & also APM, having completed an APM foundation type of course 6 years ago, could be an option.

The negative aspect is that many of the essential elements of PRINCE2 can be omitted sometimes resulting in a PINO project – Prince in Name Only

😆

Teggs, I'll send you an email in the morning.

SM

Like all frameworks PRINCE2 works in the ideal, not necessarily real world.

When I was looking PRINCE2 came up a lot and I would think that it's a qualification worth having. Just to muddy things up further, another qualification worth looking at is ITIL. This is particularly useful if you are looking at Service Management.

I paid for myself to go on the ITIL foundation course and whilst I was there I couldn't help noticing how quite the whole training centre was. Whe times get hard one of the first things to go is training. A mate of mine tried the following approach and it worked.

Identify the course and provider you want. Wait till the Thursday or Friday before the Monday start and ring up to see if there are any places available. If there are then haggle. They need bums on seats and you may be able to save youself a few quid. He got a couple of cheap courses this way.

Good luck.

A little theory knowledge and a qualification with relevant experience never hurt anyone's job prospects.

IT PM here, its pretty much the IT industry standard. Without it yer CV looks less attractive and you will get less job offers. I did mine 5 years ago and have never used the full methodology, companies always cherry pick what they want from it and make it their own but its still the benchmark for most.

I did mine with company called QA, it was a five day course and included practitioner exam on the last day, course was good, they were there to help you understand and pass.

I prefer the pain of 16+ hour days for a week and getting the exams done than worrying about doing extra study at home and taking weeks to getting around to sitting the exams.

I've got an 8 day Oracle DBCA course with them starting tomorrow. Not really looking forward to it but better than the alternative…