Possible demise of CRC / Wiggle

Just had a refund issued promptly for an item that was sent back… if anything my experiences have gotten better since all the kicked off, delivery times, refunds, etc. no haribo though.

I have a couple of Sale items in my basket but I’m reluctant to order now as there isn’t an additional discount code currently running 😄
Funny how expectations are set.

Maybe something will pop up around Boxing Day.

I’m still waiting for a small order to pass through “Your parcel is being sorted at the senders local depot”. Should have been here 2 days ago… It was in stock at Wiggle but not CRC so I wasn’t 100% expecting it to turn up.

I was holding out for a discount code being active when a set of wheels was in stock for the trail bike but had my hand forced today when I found a cracked axle on my current set. Still, £250 for a pair of DTSwiss wheels that are £350+ elsewhere is still a good deal as there doesn’t seem to be any deals on 29″ compared to 27.5″ stuff.

Also like somebody mention above, had my eye on a bike at 46% off, went to stick it in my basket last night & the price had jumped back up again, currently at 25% off. I wonder are they pushing prices up this week to be able to cut them again for a Boxing Day sale or New Years?

I wonder are they pushing prices up this week to be able to cut them again for a Boxing Day sale or New Years?

Similar, I was hoping an e substance would drop further, but its gone up £500 instead.

[EDIT] its gone back down again since lunchtime!

I wonder are they pushing prices up this week to be able to cut them again for a Boxing Day sale or New Years?

I still think the initial fire sale was either to meet a month/quarter end deadline to pay suppliers and it’ll repeat again.

Or the new (in administration) company just needed to liquidate stock to generate cash to stabilize itself, pay future wages, bills, suppliers etc. Because I imagine day 1 looked like a warehouse full of stock, but £0 in the banks so needed drastic action to keep the lights on. In which case I’d not expect to see it again.

warranty service is really good at the moment

emailed them just after midnight re broken brand-x external routed post – and they are sending me a replacement today

Got lucky that they still had my post in stock though…

https://road.cc/content/news/wiggle-administrators-optimistic-over-sale-business-305789

road.cc article claiming that Wiggle is making a “considerable trading profit.”

Hard to believe that it would be sustainable the way they’ve been knocking out Prime/DHB/Vitus/Nukeproof stock, but equally looks like there may be some hope.

There’s definitely some Hope

https://www.wiggle.com/b/hope

Biggest takeaway for me from all this is just how good some DHB stuff is and what good value it is even at full price.

Biggest takeaway for me from all this is just how good some DHB stuff is and what good value it is even at full price.

Yeah, I think several of us have said it’d be a real shame to lose some of their excellent in-house brands – for bikes, tools and soft goods.

The last of those £300 alloy nukeproof mega frames without shock soon went today, there was 4 left for days then they all got snapped up, worth it just for spare stays, swing link, bearings and hardware imo, they even found some more of the older 2020 carbon frames a few days back but they soon went too, wonder if they’ll find some more of the newer ones in a dark corner or on the top shelf.🙂

older

TBH I don’t think there is really that much of a difference over a couple of years. I mean maybe over 6 or 7 years but effectively its like 2 or 3.

Interesting to see the administration details being published so we can understand what is happening in the workings rather than relying on press releases. Now bear in mind this is just my opinion from the figures they have published and decades of experience in reading these documents. Note accounts are “a view” of reality and can be tweaked quite a bit, especially stock valuations etc  also there’s a web of holding companies and intercompany loans to complicate things and hide losses and loans

this is just wiggle it seems and hotlines/CRC will report separately. Things it seems to say:

they have spent over £3 million on administrations fees.Averaging £650+ an hour which is punchy…

they owe £26.8 million to suppliers, not as much as I guessed but there’s lots in the hundreds of thousands range which is going to really hurt a lot of suppliers. I doubt many have credit insurance so this is going to kill businesses and jobs. stock on hand of £35 million but estimated to realise £7.5 million. Well that’s the fire sale, hence why things have slowed on discounts as they sell through 

I’m slightly perplexed by their “profitable trading”. Well it’s easy when you don’t have to pay all the people you owe money. So £17 million of sales yet £6 million of stock sold, that doesn’t add up because that’s twice the normal full margin when they were also selling in a fire sale. So in reality that stock value is the realisable value using their multiplier of 4.5x. So they have burned through £27 million cost of stock to generate £17 million in sales, then add on all the wages and other costs like shipping, that’s not good. That means they don’t have much left to sell and there’s going to be very little to pay the suppliers. 

Page 39 has all the loans and stuff. Looks like £142 million black hole in the background. This isn’t surprising as page 12 says they have lost approx £40 million for a couple of years, note they only made that £110 million “profit” as the pairent company “let them off” a £140 million loan. I wish I had that kind of lenders🤣

so what am I guessing will happen next? Personally I think they will aim to complete the brand name and building sales early in the new year and wind it all up. I suspect someone will buy the brand to just make a mirror of their current storefront for minimal money. Then all the silly loss making perma discounts will be gone forever.

im waiting for CRC numbers next. Let’s see what the new year brings but it’s pretty certain it will be a big increase in what you can buy stuff for  

interesting to see nobody in the media industry has reported on this….

Neil SuperstarComponents

Hey Neil there’s a poster called submarined that might need your advice about your hubs on another thread, if you can pull yourself away from this one 😀

The thing is though, this business is doing the exact same thing as other businesses, selling to the same people. The customers that Wiggle had are still here they will just go elsewhere. That means that the goods can also go elsewhere, surely? Suppliers who sold to Wiggle will now sell to other businesses and the same people will buy their stuff, surely? The IP that they own, stuff like DHB and Nukeproof, still has value so they should be sold to someone else. Those DHB clothes will be made by some far eastern company; even if noone buys the patterns the manufacturers will probably tweak the designs cosmetically and approach someone else to sell them.

I’m not an expert at all, but it seems like we as customers would end up with basically the same situation, and a lot of the people involved could well end up doing the same thing for different employers, no?

Absolutely not. For the status quo to continue they need to find a buyer who wants to invest tens of millions to then lose tens of millions a year indefinitely. Easy to be the cheapest when you lose money on every sale…

the magic money tree of the Signa Property empire which was funding the massive cash bonfire is gone for good. They look to have racked up losses in the tens of billions of euros from the news in a messy implosion

Neil SuperstarComponents

What is a brand worth? What someone will pay

as we have seen from the Moore large auction not very much. Onza sold for £4500!

if people only bought brand abcd because it was cheap (below manufacturing and distribution cost) and not because of the brand it is probably worthless. 

as you say anyone can buy anything from the factories who make stuff and very few brands actually “design” stuff. So if it’s not designed the brand design IP is worthless 

Just my opinion but we will see

neil SuperstarComponents

Page 39 has all the loans and stuff. Looks like £142 million black hole in the background. This isn’t surprising as page 12 says they have lost approx £40 million for a couple of years, note they only made that £110 million “profit” as the pairent company “let them off” a £140 million loan. I wish I had that kind of lenders🤣

Interesting, were they perhaps “loaned” their own value when sold previously?

If you read their accounts the loans are non-interest non-capital so unlike you or I when you take out a mortgage you have to pay it back every month they don’t . So they can shake the magic money tree as much as they want without any downside. You want to spend millions on advertising your house brand to make it look better than it is? Shake shake shake 

their situation is pairent companies give loans to soak up their profits to avoid paying tax, then when the company makes big profits they can feed it back to the pairent company so they don’t pay tax also. The repayment normally is funnelled through various holding companies and ends up offshore 

obviously I don’t know the details in this case but there’s a reason for the web of companies. 

also signas strategy appears to be get the loss making retail group pay huge rents so you could revalue your buildings to be worth more. Then take out even bigger loans against the uplift in value

neil SuperstarComponents 

as you say anyone can buy anything from the factories who make stuff and very few brands actually “design” stuff

Yes. All I want is to be able to buy stuff like DHB Aeron for say, 50-60% of the price of Assos and Rapha. I don’t care what logo it has.

Yes. All I want is to be able to buy stuff like DHB Aeron for say, 50-60% of the price of Assos and Rapha. I don’t care what logo it has

+1. Hopefully decathlon notice the gap in the market. The kit is certainly good enough, it’s just the designs that aren’t quite as good, sometimes anyway.

Polaris are re-launching themselves and I can’t wait to see what they come up with. I’ve had many good experiences with their outgoing ranges.

Yes. All I want is to be able to buy stuff like DHB Aeron for say, 50-60% of the price of Assos and Rapha. I don’t care what logo it has

Has anyone worked out whether that is a viable business or only possible if selling at a loss?

I agree with Neil that the administrators may have got it looking profitable by writing down the stock value, so the margins appear better. Does this make chiggle look good for potential investors? You’d think investors are smarter than that, but not always…

Still I’ve got my eye on a few bits that have just come down in price, I’m holding off in case they have an extra boxing day sale / discount.

I agree with Neil that the administrators may have got it looking profitable by writing down the stock value, so the margins appear better. Does this make chiggle look good for potential investors? You’d think investors are smarter than that, but not always…

The administrator does not issue accounts in the same kind of way that a trading company does.  

They are accounting on a receipts and payments (cash) basis not an accruals basis for the funds that pass through the company in administration.  

The purchases number in there will be what they have actually paid for during the administration (it won’t include what was on the shelf that already belonged to the company). 

It’s not profit like a set of Companies House accounts and if you’re comparing the two or you are going to get answers that don’t make sense and the kind of conjecture/misunderstanding that is appearing in this thread. 

Décathlon are involved with Alltricks already .

Yes. All I want is to be able to buy stuff like DHB Aeron for say, 50-60% of the price of Assos and Rapha. I don’t care what logo it has.

Considering Rapha haven’t turned a profit in years I suspect it’s not as simple as that.

As Neil says above, if a company is making profit then they are paying tax and doing something wrong

Usually the parent company will ramp up the rent in some way and spirit that money away

They don’t work like micro businesses or domestic finances.

The aim is not to pay any tax and you do that by not making a profit, moving any would-be profit offshore.

Just a quick scan and a couple of standouts –

Sam Hill and Elliot Heap are going to lose out.

Madison’s are in for 1.1 million – hope they can absorb this. Would really shake things up if they go.

All that free haribo has cost them big!

+1. Hopefully decathlon notice the gap in the market. The kit is certainly good enough, it’s just the designs that aren’t quite as good, sometimes anyway.

Plus 2

Decathlon have a terrible website – worse that the current wiggle one and often stuff isn’t in stock. Worse, search results are full of non decathlon stuff which has separate shipping. A shame as decathlon kit is decent.

Also a fan of dhb and to be fair wiggle based on how much I’ve used them. Dhb were always a bit of a reference in that paying anything more from another brand had to have a clear benefit as dhb was always solid. Maybe it was all just to good to be true.

Decathlon have a terrible website

Agreed and actually it’s especially painful on a mobile. I don’t find the current CRC site too bad.  They’ve always had the issue of a hit and miss “in stock” filter and the rest kind of works if you know what you want well enough.

Thankfully I’m a 15 minute cycle from a Decathlon, which rather takes the pain out of will it be in stock or not Vs the issues on their site.

I’m a big fan of their stuff and dhb kit.

We should hold a fundraiser and perform a customer buy out. 

If you read back through the thread we already have!!

As regards Decathlon, I used to shop there when I was in Edinburgh but they’re way down my list since we no longer have a nearby store. Mail order experience has been poor (e.g. for returns I have to make a trip to Inverness), fit is all over the place and stock is a complete lottery. I also don’t like the fact that they’re showing me stuff from other retailers – which looks mostly crap. 

Polaris are re-launching themselves and I can’t wait to see what they come up with.

New owners?

Ordered a Vitus HT at the weekend. Got an email about foregoing the pre delivery inspection if I want it within the next three weeks. Anyone know what I am likely to be giving up by doing this? Assume the bikes are all semi assembled and boxed up at the factory and then the inspection is just going to be a case of opening the box up and looking for anything obvious that wasn’t done properly.

Have built up road bikes from scratch before and maintained them so not worried about assembly.

I took that option with a Cub Scout hardtail for the lad before Christmas. All I needed to do when it arrived was unpack, put the bars on, grease and inset the seat post, attached pedals, grease the front axel and headset bearings and align the brake callipers. Otherwise everything else seemed fine as far as I could tell.

After I expressed an initial interest in taking up the offer they did send through some paperwork on what was likely to be involved and a sort of waiver saying you knew what you were getting into from a liability point of view. I’d take them up on the offer again if they get in touch about the bike I’ve got on order for MsGinge.

Your brakes may be reversed (euro set up)