driving slowley increases driver fustration and creates more hazzards imhe.

Its the impatient driver that creates the hazard not the slow one.

driving slowley increases driver fustration and creates more hazzards imhe.

Whilst I don’t disagree, that’s kind of akin to the ‘well, she was asking for it’ defence.

Slow drivers increase frustration, sure. But the frustrated drivers are the ones causing accidents.

Its the impatient driver that creates the hazard not the slow one.

No. The slow driver creates the hazard, the impatient driver fails to avoid the hazard. If I smash a wheel on a pothole, it’s my fault for not negotiating it, but it’s the pothole that’s the hazard.

Tehre is no hazard unless there is an impatient driver. There is no hazard without an impatient driver.

No matter how you dress it up its not the slow driver creating the danger – its the impatient one

Creating danger isn’t the same thing as creating a hazard. Nice try though.

In France they use the right hand lane except when overtaking? Just like here then.

Took me a while at this late hour but good one 😛

I have been googling ‘fat man small car’ to try and disprove TJ’s (hi TJ) claim that the Fiat Panda is the only car anyone would ever need. I couldn’t find a picture of a man too fat to fit in a Fiat Panda, so I concede the point and now agree with TJ. I did, however, find this, which I think is worth posting up.

No matter how you dress it up its not the slow driver creating the danger – its the impatient one

Both have an element of responsibility.

Davidjones

The slow driver is driving along safely within the rules of the road creating no danger at all. The impatient driver creates the danger by his impatience to overtake and by doing so inappropriately

If the slow driver is driving slower than you woulod expect them to be, they too are causing problems.
In fact, Scotland’s finest have it down as “driving carelessly and without due consideration for other road users”.
End.

The slow driver is driving along safely within the rules of the road

See Driving without reasonable consideration – Section 3 RTA 1988

Which includes

unnecessarily slow driving or braking without good cause

Not sure what constitutes unnecessarily slow driving, but it seems there is provision to address the issue. I’d personally argue that unnecessarily slow is when you have a queue and people are getting frustrated. You almost always have the option to pull in and let people pass.

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/road_traffic_offences_guidance_on_prosecuting_cases_of_bad_driving/

Edit: Thinking about it, this might be a good candidate for some camera footage to be submitted to the police so they can take action…? Let’s say you’re following someone who’s doing 50 or less in a 60 on a good road, and you just happen to have a dash mounted camera…?

That is for extreme instances – not what most folk on here are complaining about

50 in a 60? perfectly acceptable

Its the people getting frustrated that are at fault

That is for extreme instances

Not going to get in to an argument, but that is not what is written. The text just says “unnecessarily”.

That is for extreme instances

🙂

“If the slow driver is driving slower than you woulod expect them to be”

Which “you” are you talking about? The abstract reasonable person or the hair-trigger aggro merchants that are on this thread? 😀

How about a cyclist pootling along at 12 mph – are they a hazard? or a tractor at 25 mph?

How about a cyclist pootling along at 12 mph – are they a hazard? or a tractor at 25 mph?

Tractors often have big amber flashing lights on them, why do you think that might be? Have they just come from a rave?

I’d personally argue that unnecessarily slow is when you have a queue and people are getting frustrated.

Not necessarily. I have a queue of people following me every time I drive in south Bristol. That’s because I’m one of the very few people here who stick to the speed limit.

I’d argue that anyone who can’t manage to organise their right foot and eyes so that they observe the limit needs to re-take their test.

How about a cyclist pootling along at 12 mph – are they a hazard? or a tractor at 25 mph?

Yes TJ those would be hazards too well spotted

“Unnecessarily slow” is when you’re driving significantly slower than conditions would safely allow.

For example. Driving to work this morning, I encountered a hazard in the form of an elderly driver travelling at 25mph in a NSL (60mph) area. I waited patiently until visibility was good and the road was clear, then smoothly overtook them, safely passing the hazard and going on my way.

You’ll fail your driving test for driving too slowly – “failure to make progress” it’s called. You can be pulled over for it too; drive down the motorway at 30mph and see how far you get before the police come to investigate.

hazard assessment is subjective

Oh, sure. You’d be amazed how many people don’t see them. I’m surprised that’s even debatable on a cycling forum.

Having skimmed the thread, a few points:

Speeding is not rigorously enforced in the UK and speed cameras are not hidden. Police ‘speed traps’ are quite rare outside of 30mph limits.

With some discretion, care and observation cars can be driven at brisk, reasonable speed without incident or anti-social behaviour. Overtaking safely is entirely possible.

Drivers should be aware of their surroundings; including speed limits, conditions, road signs, other road users etc. and base their behaviour upon them. eg. If you are in a 40mph limit and there are pseed camera signs, it shouldn’t be too surprising if you see a speed camera….

People do drive along at 40mph (often accompanied by unnecessary braking) in 60mph limits with long queues behind them. Their may well be a general fear of overtaking and their is a very British ‘queueing culture’. I have no issue with people overtaking columns of traffic where safe and with visibility. It is much, much easier on a motorbike though.

(the ‘queueing culture’ also results in merging and jostling at the “800yds” signs before roadworks on dual-carriageways, with much harrumphing and fist-shaking at people who prefer to sensibly merge-in-turn)

A lot of speed limits have been reduced in recent years, which can be frustrating.

Personally, I’m a fan of discretion. As a ‘younger man’, I did drive a bit ‘fast & furious’ at times and gained (some expensive and some lucky) experience. I now drive in a more considered/considerate way, but do like to maintain a reasonable pace, with more smoothness.

ps. French/Italian cars may appear to have a lot of dents and possibly do, but there is a seemingly British attitude towards repairing even very minor bodywork damage, possibly linked to the fact that people like to change cars often, rather than when they ‘wear out’.

Their may well be a general fear of overtaking and their is a very British ‘queueing culture’

I think this can be supported by the queues of traffic that sit behind the marked police cars that do 65mph on the motorways. How they laughed.

(the ‘queueing culture’ also results in merging and jostling at the “800yds” signs before roadworks on dual-carriageways, with much harrumphing and fist-shaking at people who prefer to sensibly merge-in-turn)

Yeah…this is utter madness – I’ve seen this a few times with vans deliberately moving to block motorists moving down the clear lane to reach the merge-in-turn bit – It’s as if they want to cause as much traffic chaos to as many motorists as possible.

I’ve seen this a few times with vans deliberately moving to block motorists moving down the clear lane to reach the merge-in-turn bit – It’s as if they want to cause as much traffic chaos to as many motorists as possible.

Or maybe they want to cause as much traffic chaos to as few motorists as possible, by preventing selfish drivers delaying as many people as possible. I mean it’s not as if the vans are preventing other drivers from using the clear lane – they’re just preventing them from whizzing past all the other people who’ve been waiting longer. The sensible solution if you get blocked in such a way is to carry on behind them and merge in turn when you get to the narrowing. In fact if you look at it objectively, the vans doing this are actually helping to set up the 2 lines of traffic moving at the same speed which you’re after.

Unless of course you’re not happy with waiting to merge in turn behind the car who was at the back of the queue in the left lane when you got there, and think you’re more important than all the people who got to the back of the queue before you?

I fail to see how haphazardly merging into one lane a mile before a lane closure making a needlessly long queue is in any way preferable to two lanes merging at one single point alternately like teeth in a zip.

Lane blocking is just petty. “I’ve sat here pointlessly for ten minutes, so everyone else will have to as well.”

Cougar – Member
I fail to see how haphazardly merging into one lane a mile before a lane closure making a needlessly long queue is in any way preferable to two lanes merging at one single point alternately like teeth in a zip.

Well said

Lane blocking is just petty. “I’ve sat here pointlessly for ten minutes, so everyone else will have to as well.”

Absolutely. Driving to Dover last Summer down the dual carriageway we hit a lane closure and queuing traffic some ten miles out. As we ‘slowly’ traveled up the [clear] outside lane about half a mile from the merge a car pulled out and blocked our path, bloody sat there all the way to the merge then pulled in. WTF!!!

I quietly invented some choice swear words… 👿

Speed can be dangerous, you’ll get no argument from me there. But most problems I see on the road are from ignorant or just plan bad drivers. The “I’m driving within the limit so don’t need to look where or what I’m doing” brigade are the most dangerous of the lot.

Driving down dual carriageways at 50mph then pulling out last minute right in front of a car travelling at 70mph to over take a lorry. Then take five minutes to pass the lorry causing a tailback, then not pulling in because there’s another car half a mile ahead and they might need to pull out again… shoot the bloody lot of them and give me a fast driver who actually drives considerately and is aware of what’s going on around them.

Rant over…

As we ‘slowly’ traveled up the [clear] outside lane about half a mile from the merge a car pulled out and blocked our path, bloody sat there all the way to the merge then pulled in. WTF!!!

So you did the zip and merge at the obstruction in exactly the same way as they do on the continent – with both lanes moving at the same speed until the merge. I don’t see what the problem is.

Presumably “slowly” was actually fast relative to the other lane? Do the advocates of “overtaking” the left lane in this way really not understand why other people might have a problem with that sort of behaviour?

One of the ‘benefits’ of having a quick car (TT) is being able to safely overtake slow drivers (slow = driving well below the speed limit, in near perfect weather conditions.)

I have lost count the number of times I have seen drivers overtake at a slow speed (maybe 5mph more than the car they are overtaking). They are on the opposite side of the road far too long!!

Overtaking should be over and done with in a matter of seconds.

If there is a lane closure 800yds away, why are many people merging in a jostling manner where there is no lane closure?

Because British drivers don’t generally merge-in-turn at the obstruction, there is a time advantage for those who do.

If everybody did perform and allow others to do a system of sensible merge-in-turn, then there wouldn’t be a clear right hand lane for non-sheep-people to drive down….

A former (German) colleague of mine found it very strange. He said that in Germany people would be getting angry about people not merging-in-turn like a zip.

Then again, Johnny Foreigner really don’t know how to queue.

One of the ‘benefits’ of having a quick car (TT) is being able to safely overtake slow drivers

You don’t need a quick car to overtake efficiently, just a bit of forward planning.

Our mobile cash machine camera van doesn’t do people who are overtaking, even if they might be going a bit over the limit.

A couple of nights ago, I was out for a few drinks with some friends at a local pub and had a few too many beers and some rather nice red wine.

Knowing full well I may have been slightly over the limit, I did something I’ve never done before: I took a bus home. As it happens, I passed a police check point but as it was a bus, they waved it past.

I arrived home safely without incident, which was a real surprise; as I have never driven a bus before and I am not really sure where I got it from.

*applauds*

Good safety advice there from jota.

I met some chaps who did the same thing one night. Apart from the arriving home safely without incident bit. Although that portacabin in the bus depot had always been a bit of an eyesore.

@ Cougar

Slower car = *much* more road needed to safely overtake.

You can plan all you want, but you may have to sit behind a slow driver for 10 miles before you have enough room to accelerate your 1.0L Fiesta around the car in front!

More road required = more time on the wrong side of the road = higher chance of a crash (logically)

Drop back, plan ahead, start the manoeuvre well in advance, by the time you’ve reached the vehicle in front you’re going almost fast enough to overtake and still accelerating. If the opportunity you’ve aimed for doesn’t open, you can just brake and try again in a bit. Easy money.

The reason no-one can overtake anything in this country is cos as soon as they encounter a slow driver they crawl right up their arse. So a) they can’t see a bloody thing and b) when they do finally decide to try and overtake after wobbling towards the white lines for a millennia, they’re speed-matched when they pull out and have no chance.

Driving without reasonable consideration – Section 3 RTA 1988

I agree with gingerss point, and it identifies this as a rt offence.

Cougar drives like me, no faffing!

lol at jota.will remember that one..

Or maybe they want to cause as much traffic chaos to as few motorists as possible, by preventing selfish drivers delaying as many people as possible. I mean it’s not as if the vans are preventing other drivers from using the clear lane – they’re just preventing them from whizzing past all the other people who’ve been waiting longer. The sensible solution if you get blocked in such a way is to carry on behind them and merge in turn when you get to the narrowing. In fact if you look at it objectively, the vans doing this are actually helping to set up the 2 lines of traffic moving at the same speed which you’re after.

Unless of course you’re not happy with waiting to merge in turn behind the car who was at the back of the queue in the left lane when you got there, and think you’re more important than all the people who got to the back of the queue before you?

Half of them are waiting longer than they should have been as they merged too soon….by doing so they would have moved the filter/merge point up the chain of traffic and caused unstable braking waves, which would of it’s own accord caused even more braking in the traffic chain, and congestion. If however…everybody had held their lanes and driven to the obstruction then merged at the obstruction everyone would have got through faster.