Pipehouse Lane Nr Bath "Improved"??

:evil:WTF are they doing!!?? Absolutely crazy, these works will if anything make matters worse.

As already said it’s a stream FFS!! Where the **** do they think the water is going to go? They’ve not addressed any of the drainage issues, if anything by the sounds of it they’ve made them worse.

The only possible ‘up’ side to this is that they’ve made such a mess of it, it can only strengthen our argument that such works need to be carried out with care and thought for all users.

I can’t say too much here as it would compromise his position but the local IMBA rep knows the issues and is in touch with the Rights of Way Team. 😉

Cheers Fin for the offer to attend a meeting. I think a meeting on site would be a good idea.

And before you punch him 😉 one of the most local Councillors is a keen cyclist and now Exec Member for Transport, he’s on side and I’m sure if he knew about this would be livid. He’s been a great help getting the path across Rainbow Woods sorted (between the Uni and Shaft Road) and I’m sure he’ll back us if it comes to that.

It’s OK
I’ve calmed down now 😀

As we’ve said – it’s just gonna wash away again

It’s OK
I’ve calmed down now

Not me yet!

I wonder if they plan to lay some nice tarmac on the top to finish it off!!

He’s been a great help getting the path across Rainbow Woods sorted (between the Uni and Shaft Road)

What’s happening? I saw some no cycling signs go up a few months back. It’s on a similar alignment as the bridleway through Monkton Combe Valley so that would seam like the best designation to me. I think I read these paths make up the route of a Roman road. Anyone know?

awh – Member

He’s been a great help getting the path across Rainbow Woods sorted (between the Uni and Shaft Road)

What’s happening? I saw some no cycling signs go up a few months back. It’s on a similar alignment as the bridleway through Monkton Combe Valley so that would seam like the best designation to me. I think I read these paths make up the route of a Roman road. Anyone know?

The no cycling signs are now gone 8) replaced with ‘No Motorcycling’ Signs.

It’s a very long story but the Council are planning to turn the existing footpath into a bridleway. Three of the four landowners (which include the NT) are happy, one (who owns the land near the top of Widcome Hill) is not.

The University and Ralph Allens school are behind the plans but it may well come to a public inquiry if the landowner continues to object.

The first stage is informal consultation, that ended 6th Jan, next stage is to formally advertise the order. I’ll post details on here and elsewhere to alert people and ask them to write in support.

Back to Pipehouse, have spoken a minute ago to the IMBA rep who yesterday spoke to the Rights of Way Team Leader. Plan is to suggest a meeting, possibly on site. Mr Agreeable and Fin, be great if you could support this, I’ll email you 🙂

I’ll definitely write in support of the bridleway and happy to come along to any Pipehouse meeting.

Does anyone know if there is an IMBA rep for Surrey?

zippykona – Member
Does anyone know if there is an IMBA rep for Surrey?

http://imba.org.uk/about-imba/contact/

gareth.newns@imba.org.uk

awh – ygm via yr hotmail ad

Edit, Andy beat me to it!

Thanks, just looked it up. No idea why I’ve not got in contact with them before.

Still waiting to hear from the Council regards meeting up. In the meantime I thought it might be a good idea to find out how other Council’s approach the issue to see if we can identify some best practice.

The Penine Bridelway National Trail seems to be the most cited example of best practice.

http://www.westpenninemoors.com/files/uploads/pdfs/strategies/WestPennineMoorsBridlewayStrategy2006-2013.pdf

Bridleway design and construction

In the construction of bridleways the challenge is to provide safe and accessible routes for horse riders, walkers, mountain bikers and where possible those less mobile. Their design including furniture, routing and surfacing should take into account the requirements of each user but should not compromise its use by horses. The construction and design of bridleways particularly over upland areas is an evolving process and techniques are constantly being reviewed. There will be a
particular test through this strategy to provide engineered and sustainable upland routes in open country, routes that provide interest to experienced mountain bikers and a challenge to horse
riders and walkers whilst maintaining and appropriately enhancing natural and cultural heritage.

This test will involve close liaison with users and landowners at the design stage and the adoption of national best practice.

The development of the Pennine Bridleway National Trail focussed attention on construction methods and bridleway design, and in response the Countryside Agency produced in 1999 a design guide to assist those in implementing the trail. The guide sets out detailed specifications for a variety of path types and bridleway furniture and
provides a good reference for the development of the network within West Pennine Moors (Pennine Bridleway National Trail Design Guide, Countryside Agency, 1999). As a multi user route the design will need to take into account wherever possible the needs of mountain bikers. The International Mountain Bike Association has produced a design
guide which provides a variety of techniques and which can be used as a reference (Building Better Trails, IMBA, 2001). The durability of the trail is a key consideration at the outset, longterm maintenance also needs to be taken into account at the design stage.

Unfortunately the “Pennine Bridleway National Trail Design Guide, Countryside Agency, 1999” is not available for download anywhere though..

The Institute of Public Rights of Way and Access Management has also produced some best practice:

http://www.iprow.co.uk/gpg/index.php/Surfaces

Has anyone else any examples of good practice?

These are the ones I use: –

http://shop.btcv.org.uk/shop/level2/59/stock/951

No downloadable content yet, but if you’re really interested someone local to you should have a hard copy. These have handy downloads: –

http://www.snh.gov.uk/land-and-sea/managing-recreation-and-access/technical-advice/

http://www.pathsforall.org.uk/component/option,com_docman/Itemid,166/gid,57/task,cat_view/

The BHS have preferred standards but I can’t find copies of anything, your local BHS rep will be able to help: –

http://www.bhs.org.uk/Riding/Riding_Off_Road/Bridleway_officers/Find_a_Bridleway_Officer.aspx

Shout if you need more info 🙂

p.s. I’m back in the office wednesday so I’ll have a look on file if you’re interested?

Just skim read this but whats happened is a – uni-fix one size fits all apporach. Track which seems to be mostly be a stream be with lots of bedrock or large boulders which dont move too much was re-profiled and filled up with aggregate. This was done sometime last back end. Water has done its thing and moved the new aggregate as the clast size is too small and so very easily eroded by the water flow. Within months there is widespread failure of the path surface. This is now being lifted and repacked – hence the second set of night time picks?

I’d go for two things here – path construction standards and construction design and management regulations. The former is your tool box the later is how you show you have selected the right tools for the job.

In thinking about any job dealing with resurfacing and water from a ‘building’ point of view you might choose to design out as much on going maint and risk to future users as reasonably possible. Here its a case of balancing water against how accesible it is. You could put several 100tonnes of aggregate as thats what the big book of paths suggest. Very accesible but what about the water? Here your going to build something that is robust and drains well and doesnt eroded at the drop of rain because erosion creates maintenance issue and also user safety issue because you have steep sided narrow ruts. In choosing the desing your going to have to balance out all the issues. This might include pitching, ditching, water bars, leaving things alone. The old path was a naturally selecting is riding group due to the obvious hazards – if it was not eroding too rapidly you might even leave it as is. The new eroded one has hazards requiring an equal skill level but the new users dont have that. Longer term it will find its own level – ideally if you’ve spent money on it that wont be exactly where it was before.

For path standards I’d suggest – paths for all, SNH guidance, BHS guidance but also remember this is writen by horse riders to a horse riders needs, IMBA guidance, IPROW but it is a little too uni-fix. British upland footpath trust handbook makes good reading as does BTCV. SNH and BUFT are the main two I’d recomend as they are more focused on things other than flat paths in country parks.

The other thing is to always note what are regulations, what is best practice and what is guidance. The regs trump everything else but if applied properly you should be doing the other two. If they dont then something is wrong.

For example – a council decides to make a wheelchair accesible path. It selects its site. In doing so the design highlights the need for several stone pitched steps and drainage chanels. These things would not normally fit with and accesable path in terms of accesablity guidance and design guidance for that user group. At this point you should think – OK right idea wrong location not lets change the design to meet the user as that just creates other issues.

Thanks both, that’s useful stuff.

Yes, oldagedpredator your first para is a good recap.

Shout if you need more info

p.s. I’m back in the office wednesday so I’ll have a look on file if you’re interested?

Thanks for the offer schnor, the local IMBA rep has emailed Colin Palmer to point him to this thread and to ask what he can send us. Will let you know what that includes to see if there is any more you could add.

I’ve had a reply from the Head of the Rights of Way Team which we’ll get our heads together on before replying to (comments welcome here too).

Although I can appreciate that Pipehouse Lane provided a welcome challenge for some mountain bikers, we do need to ensure that all classes of user can pass and repass along its full length. We received a number of complaints that the route had become impassable and the works were carried out following consultation with the parish council. A drainage system was installed prior to the resurfacing; however, as you’ll appreciate from the topography of the lane, there are only a limited number of drainage options available. Unfortunately we experienced exceptionally heavy rainfall before the works were fully completed; however, this damage has since been rectified.

I’m happy to take on board your suggestion for stone pitching and we will consider this for future schemes. The next meeting of the JLAF is scheduled for Friday 2nd March 2012 at the Council Chamber, Keynsham Town Hall, Keynsham BS31 1NL; the JLAF is open to members of the public and you are welcome to attend. Alternatively, there is a PROW Liaison Group which discusses more specific issues on the network and I will let you know when the next meeting is scheduled.

I was planning to ask:

Who were the complaints from and what were their requirements (i.e. did they ask for the trail to be flattened,or the drainage sorted etc)?

Who else was consulted (he mentions the Parish Council) and what were their views? (As we’ve discussed above, there is a hierarchy of users and they have a legal duty to ensure the path can be used by horse riders but does that mean that they have to flatten the trail?)

What was the ‘drainage system’ that was installed? I may have missed it! I’m guessing it’s a large bore (200mm) plastic land drain / pipe?

What was the cost / what is his budget / what other plans does he have / how are they prioritised etc?

On the positive side at least he promises to “take on board” the suggestion for stone pitching. I was going to press him to promise to consult us next time they’re putting a scheme together.

Finally, we’ll see if we can find anyone willing / able to make the JLAF and / or PROW Liaison group..

“we do need to ensure that all classes of user can pass”

Clearly the path was challenging but not “impassable” by foot, bike, horse and motorbike.

So they completely changed the character of the trail to satisfy a small number of influential complainants, without wider consultation.

And spent a lot of our money doing it!

They screwed up IMO.

parish council

Will probably be your problem.

parish council

Will probably be your problem.

I used to be the Parish Clerk for the largest Parish north of Bath and was indeed successful in getting quite a few rights of way issues addressed (illegal obstructions etc) 😉

Yes, the PC has a say but I don’t think they are the problem here. I’ll wait to be proved wrong but I suspect it was probably the local equestrian lobby

I know it differs elsewhere in the country but in this case the PCs are consulted and do have some influence but don’t have a budget and don’t commission the work themselves..

At what point do we get the shovels out?

We don’t need shovels. We need motorbikes and lots of rain 😉

Haven’t got motorbike 🙁

Is the IMBA our voice on this? If they are in joining tonight.
There must be some sort of disgruntled tax payers alliance that we could contact. Anyone got any ideas? The motorbike and car forums are going to be as upset as us that the countryside gets fixed before the roads.
Can someone set up a Facebook page that we can get everyone we know to sign? It needs to be focussed on wasting money rather than upset mountain bikers.

Apologies in advance for the TL;DR brigade 😛

AnalogueAndy

I was planning to ask:
1) Who were the complaints from and what were their requirements (i.e. did they ask for the trail to be flattened,or the drainage sorted etc)?
2) Who else was consulted (he mentions the Parish Council) and what were their views? (As we’ve discussed above, there is a hierarchy of users and they have a legal duty to ensure the path can be used by horse riders but does that mean that they have to flatten the trail?)
3) What was the ‘drainage system’ that was installed? I may have missed it! I’m guessing it’s a large bore (200mm) plastic land drain / pipe?
4) What was the cost / what is his budget / what other plans does he have / how are they prioritised etc?
5) On the positive side at least he promises to “take on board” the suggestion for stone pitching. I was going to press him to promise to consult us next time they’re putting a scheme together.
Finally, we’ll see if we can find anyone willing / able to make the JLAF and / or PROW Liaison group

Although this probably won’t be relevant or applicable to this particular case, for you to help understand the process a bit more, I can answer these if it were me: –

1) Typically we receive complaints from members of the public stating “had difficulty riding down this bridleway due to several large rocky steps …”. Complainants rarely suggest a solution when reporting a problem other than finishing with “… please could you do something so I can ride down it”

2) On a project like this I would consult some but not necessarily all of – the Community / Parish Council, landowners, other bodies if applicable (like the Environment Agency, etc), the local BHS / other horse rep and local horse riders / interested people. A general rule of thumb is though the more people involved the more complicated it gets, so its good to reach a balance of views

3) TBH I’m rarely asked the particulars for any project like this, if someone asked for what specification the french drain / whatever else was constructed to, I’d reply with something like “all items were constructed and installed to the particular requirements of the site” as sometimes the contractor typically finds a problem on site which means the spec can’t be stuck to 100%.

4) Most council departments flinch (wrongly, its public money after all) when people ask how much things like this cost as they envisage ‘Outraged from Bath’ letters to the local rag.

Most local authorities have a threshold (£1000 for me, which is a PITA as a job costing a grand doesn’t translate to much work on the ground, and a lot of my time is spent asking for quotes, meeting contractors on site knowing someone else will be cheaper, etc, but they’re the rules) for which three quotes are needed, 75% of the time the cheapest option will be chosen (the other 15% is if certain contractors are particularly good at certain things, or 10% if the cheaper contractor is tied up elsewhere)

I sometimes get asked and have no problems being totally open about my budget / other plans. No two local authorities maintenance priority system will be the same. I have no idea about your local department, but for me its on a scale of 1-5. 1 is urgent as ‘childrens faces at risk’ etc, 5 is basically ‘it’ll never be done’.

How I decide to do one path over another its really tough to answer really. It all depends on what ROWIP targets I have to meet for path type or area, which paths / links have been identified by me / people mentioned in point 2, who complains the loudest, and how different budgets all fall together. I’m naturally inclined to do lots of small jobs (spreading the budget out as far as I can in as large an area) rather than a few big jobs.

Far be it from me to criticise my colleague in Bath, but I wouldn’t have done this particular path like this; however I don’t know all the facts and there could be a very good reason why its been done like this (which personally I think what has happened), but as people have pointed out, a little openness goes a long way (although I’m now regretting being SO open as members of the public are now micro-consulting me (‘why did you put 5 waymark posts on this path instead of 7 like I asked’, ‘I don’t like the colour of the NFU “dog on lead” signs’, ‘why can’t that be a one step stile instead of a two step stile’ blah blah blah – there needs to be an arms-length relationship for this very reason).

5) I’d agree with your suggestion that you’d like a bit more than his agreement to “take on board” your opinions. I’m always looking for local people with expertise and who are willing to help (TBH it saves me a bit of time and I don’t always know what’s best). Normally its a phone call / email but sometimes meet on site with a contractor too. Don’t be put off and keep on pestering! Id always recommend having someone on the LAF / RoW groups, or even as an observer.

In terms of literature I’ve got on file these are pretty comprehensive: –

Path construction and surfacing
http://www.pathsforall.org.uk/component/option,com_docman/Itemid,69/gid,57/task,doc_details/

Standards and Dimensions on Bridleways and Byways (British Horse Society)
https://www.bhs.org.uk/~/media/MainSite/About%20the%20BHS/Leaflets/Rights%20of%20Way/standards%20and%20dimensions.ashx

These cover 95% of the most comprehensive guides (which aren’t downloadable anyway)

A Guide to the Surfacing of Bridleways and horse tracks. The British Horse Society, 1995
Bridleway Gates: A Guide to Good Practice. The British Horse Society, 1996

As usual, shout and I’ll try and help

[edit]

p.s.

“we do need to ensure that all classes of user can pass”

Clearly the path was challenging but not “impassable” by foot, bike, horse and motorbike.

I’d hate to be pedantic, but he should have said “reasonably convenient to pass and re-pass” not just “can pass and re-pass”. This avoids a black and white assessment of whats usable / navigable and what isn’t, but instead makes the PRoW officer decide in their professional capacity as to whats ‘reasonably convenient’, but its a valid point to pick up on though buzz-lightyear

Thanks schnor, that’s really helpful. Won’t bore you with the details but I have some insight into the budget and how jobs are prioritised and where the money is spent (ex Parish Clerk and active politically).

Probably not come out in the comments above but I’ve a good working relationship with the ROW Team, they’ve been really helpful in the past (obstructions, missing signs etc).

Planning to give him a call tomorrow and draft an email after that..

You’re not going to believe this but someone’s alerted me to this:

Yep. Someone’s tried to get a Landy down it. In the dark. On his own. Without ever having driven it before 😆

Even better he posted details on LandyTrackWorld.com 😆

http://landytown.myfastforum.org/ftopic8367-0-asc-0.php

Author

bristolbulldog

Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:32 am Post subject: Ever do something you will never EVER do again? Please read

So, today I drove maf to Devizes, with the intention of doing a few lanes solo on the way home. Perfectly fine I thought so long as I am careful and steady and know when to quit.

Maf is setup terribly in my opinion from the previous owner but still very capable.

So having done a few lanes around Devizes I decide to cut across Trowbridge towards keynsham, so I can pickup my stepson at 18:00 from longwell green on the way home.

I skim memory map and see a well placed byway on the way home.

Pipehouse lane near midford.

I drove the first half, past a defender 90 parked at its home, thinking “lucky bugger, living next to a byway. Bet he uses it all the time”.

Now whilst in devizes I collected the lt230 transfer linkage as currently I can only select hi and low. Not diff lock.

Already you should be thinking “moron”.

It’s now dark, I have no diff lock, I am by myself, and doing a lane I have never even tried before.

Anyway, bei g a complete “moron” I go along the lane, and come to a dead end. But see something goes around the corner. So I turn into it to shed some light. I spot a steep drop. So I get out and have a look.

First thought “this is no ordinary byway”. 2nd though “there is no way in hell maf can even fit past that”.

So, I get back into maf, my phone tells me it’s run out of space so stopped recording. I put it in reverse and I get wheel spin. There is so much aggregate down its just digging a big hole.

I’m now starting to think I’m need to get a move on to collect my stepson.

So I do one of the most stupid things I have ever done.

Into drive and off we go.

The first part was very very tight. Maf was the same size and crudely fitted. I’m becoming a little uncomfortable at this point.

Then there’s a huge bolder in the track. So luckily being pretty big I re-align it and use some other rocks and tree trunks to make it reasonably passable.

Awesome. Over that. I’m sure that’s the tricky bit done. Doesn’t matter anyway, as I’m committed now anyway.

I carry on down and to my horror the road splits. Why the horror? Left looks off piste and crazily impossible. Right is extreme axle twisting, massively rutted from large ware flow and too much aggregate being put down. Both ate over grown with thick cutoff branches.

I only ever stood a chance at making it right, so I walked it (first sensible thing I did). It’s so steep maf slides on the handbrake and nearly stays with park Engadget as well.

I put some rocks into the deepest section, that was roughly a single sided 2ft deep rut, on the outside of a corner on steep hill. “moron” is really hitting home.

Nobody can recover me, I’m late, out of my depth, no doubt stuck, and totally bricking it.

Back in maf, start talking to the car lots.

I get over the hump, and into the rut, nearly tipped but made it!! Finally!!

“moron” again.

The rut switches sides and is even more pronounced. Trees line the sides that frankly I could only drive through without touching if the truck was level.

Totally and utterley out of my depth now, it’s becoming dangerous, and I so do wish I hadn’t been so stupid to put myself in this situation. At this point there is no fun what so ever.

I go for it, slowly, watching the axle twister, waiting to lift a wheel and with no diff lock get stuck.

Goes left, then right, NSR wheel lifts, and I know at that point for a fact it’s game over, one huge truck stuck up an unrecoverable lane, with a plonker driver.

Maf starts to tip, just before she gains momentum I plant the throttle and aim to have the roof tip into a huge tree to stop it going over. Incredibly it works. Loads of creeping of suspension, and the NSF wheel miles up in the air, and the roof wedged against the tree.

Time to quit, but with no hope of recovery I edge the throttle and I still have no idea how, but it has traction.

I increase the throttle, and we start moving, the NSR window implodes, and the drivers door mirror snaps off. Maf starts to level and pulls itself out.

Now totally freaked, and just hell bent on getting out I struggle to not just plant my foot and hope for the best.

“must be the last hurdle, I can see car headlights and possibly the road for christs sake! I’ve learnt my lesson, damaged my truck, and still have to face the wife. (how would I feel if she took ZIGGY out and did similar?)…,

Really tall stone wall, and a massive tree stump ensuring nothing but a series will get past without having to articulate and no doubt plant the NSF Wing into the wall no doubt getting stuck.

I skim the wall with the wing all along, not touching once, trying not to snag my no doubt flat tyres On the rocks / branches before the wall.

I edge around the corner, NSR lifts, but eases down. Amazed!

Look ahead, and there is a tree arch that is 12 inches lower than maf’s roof. It was semi rotten and over 6″ thick. Even me swinging on it would snap it off, but it was flexible.

Close sunroof, push through. One almighty pop and maf is now a mobile tree. Sunroof did go through!

I slip and slide down to the road, unable to see left, and on a short distance right around a tight corner.

I wait for no headlights, and put maf’s bonnet out, cats slow to right, back of maf slides but not too much for me to still make the turn right. Eventually get out, complete with a log on the front I can’t quite make out in the dark.

No room to get out at the end of the lane or most the way down.

When I find somewhere to stop shortly after, there is basically a tree wrapped around the outside of the car, and draped over the back.

Removed, picked up stepson, home.

Maf.
1. Mirror is fixable.
2. Rear window being fitted tomorrow, very lucky I could source one
3. Need new drivers door pins. Play in the hinge.
4. Rear offside door pushed in slightly. Can adjust out.
5. Small scrape on roof rail
6. Tiny dent in rear door
7. Possible exhaust leak. Underside of truck was sheeting off healthy 4″ branches that had been laid down to fill some unavoidable ruts previously..

Me.
1. Moron
2. Will never do a lane I dont know by myself.
3. Disappointed

Hours after the event I have googled the lane. It’s low use, riders can’t make it down without putting their feet down, three different forum posts list it as impassible.

So, I’m amazed maf did what it did. I’m equally amazed at how quickly a few consecutively stupid decisions can land you in hot water. How maf didn’t just go over when pulling off that tree I will never know, how I didn’t rip the tyres, how it fitted down a lane that It simply wasn’t supposed to I will never know.

I learnt alot today, and will never ever forget it. I’ll be walking the route in the coming week or so with my old man and filming it.

I figured this was worth sharing, as it’s affected me alot. You can pass this off as lunacy, or just a bit of aggressive offroading, what’s the big deal. But for me, wow, lots to learn and change from, and never to be repeated.

Luckily my wife hasn’t ripped my head off, but treading on egg shells doesn’t come close.

Be Safe…

So that explains the rocks Fin found 😆

Myself and Andy met the local RoW officer yesterday after going along to the Local Access Forum. He was nice enough to explain to us why the works were were carried out.

It seems that the work was done in response to concerns raised by the Parish Council, rather than any particular user group. The cost of the works wasn’t that much in the grand schemes of things, but it was quite a large chunk of their annual budget for capital works (which, incidentally, is going to be cut further for the coming year).

There are plans to do ongoing maintenance because of the nature of the route (it’s basically one huge drain fit all the neighbouring fields).

What’s apparent from all this is that the idea of keeping a route in a condition where a lot of users will avoid it is almost totally alien to the English RoW system. If someone wants something fixing and the budget is there, they will probably do it.

Some ideas that might address this:

– More active engagement with the powers that be. If they are only contacted by one type of user, they can only respond to those concerns.

– Suggest uncontroversial alternatives for improvement. The RoW network is full of waterlogged nightmare dullness which I doubt other user groups enjoy either.

– Unlock the value of interesting, technically challenging routes by promoting them as leisure routes. There is precedent for this in the Brecon Beacons, and while the riding round Bristol and Bath might not be at quite the same level, I’ve had plenty of happy hours hacking round both.

If someone wants something fixing and the budget is there, they will probably do it … The RoW network is full of waterlogged nightmare dullness which I doubt other user groups enjoy either.

Right then! Please fill in the worst of the muddy holes with gravel, dig a bit of drainage, compact some hardcore, and re-seed/net the edges on the most eroded segments of Mendip singletrack bridleways. Please. 😉

Buzz, your RoW officer is highly unlikely to be lurking on a mountain bike forum. Especially on a nice funny day like today. 😉

Buzz, would you be willing to give me a few tips on ride spots on the mendips please sir?

@wrecker: YGM.

Mr Agreeable – Member
Myself and Andy met the local RoW officer yesterday after going along to the Local Access Forum. He was nice enough to explain to us why the works were were carried out.

It seems that the work was done in response to concerns raised by the Parish Council, rather than any particular user group. The cost of the works wasn’t that much in the grand schemes of things, but it was quite a large chunk of their annual budget for capital works (which, incidentally, is going to be cut further for the coming year).

Cheers again Mr Agreeable for getting there 🙂

The meeting started at 2.. We arrived for then.. to discover that we’d missed the free lunch between 12 and 2 😉 Lesson for next time!

Never been to a Local Access Forum before, I’ll perhaps start a separate thread about them and our experience, anyway, as Mr Agreeable says, the short story is our voice won’t be heard if we don’t make it heard.

The RoW Officer said he’d worked for 3 local authorities and had never been approached by MTB’ers before.

Anyway, as Mr Agreeable said, we had an interesting discussion about Pipehouse, with the RoW Team Leader, with a lady from the BHS and, interestingly with a guy there representing the Trail Riders Federation who had come armed with a copy of this thread! (They are just as annoyed as us).

Up shot was I’m going to engage the Parish Council to understand their motivation and explore what could have been done differently. We’ll also open a dialogue with the TRF and BHS, offer to join working parties etc.

On the up-side we got hold of a copy of the list of planned ‘capital works’ for next year and it doesn’t include more ‘improvement’ works like this.

I told the RoW Officer that we’d write to him and ask for a meeting to discuss how we might be consulted in the future and explore different ways to ‘improve’ trails that need maintenance.

The cost of the works wasn’t that much in the grand schemes of things, but it was quite a large chunk of their annual budget for capital works

BTW I know these jobs always cost a bomb but I was surprised at how much they’d spent.. anyone like to hazard a guess??

My lovely 1 mile downhill was ruined for £25000.

zippykona – Member
My lovely 1 mile downhill was ruined for £25000.

Just a little bit less… yep, cost was £20,000!

Good work AA and MrA. Its this sort of thing that can really make a difference. I for one am guilty of moaning about things, but not actually doing much about it. Good on you both.

Now at the next meeting if you could just float the idea of reclassifying the footpaths as bridleways and we’ll be sorted 😉

*Update*

Rode up this tonight, the recent spat of bad weather has completely destroyed the ‘improved surface’ and it is pretty much back to where is was 12months ago 😀

Weekend visit on the cards. Happy happy daze

What’s a good loop including it I could follow on a map?