What’s the best thing to accelerate the demise of the new surface?
Ride it as much as possible? Long skids?

Probably lots of horses!

“Slippery rocks leading down into the stream bed with large boulders and overhanging vegetation making this a difficult and alarming bridleway – often impassable and flooded!!”

Who’da thunk it???

What’s the best thing to accelerate the demise of the new surface?

Water seems to be doing the trick nicely.

Pipehouse is a boat, not a bridleway, at least that is what OS says. Not that it makes much difference I guess.

I’m not sure anyone would ride a horse up or down it in the ‘before’ state. It was treacherous enough for a person. But I guess horse riders say the same thing about bikes, what do I know its years since I rode a horse.

Pipehouse is a boat, not a bridleway, at least that is what OS says. Not that it makes much difference I guess.

Yes it is a BOAT – number is BA12/34 – does make a difference in that as a BOAT the trail riders are (legally) allowed to use it of course.

http://www.bristoltrf.org.uk/gallery.html

So is this one of the rare occasions where as a community, MTBers would like trail riders and 4wds to come and make a mess of trails?

Blimey, hope the chap above was OK.

I don’t think a load of rutted type 1 is really much more fun to ride than a load of smooth type 1. What I’d really like to see, if improvements have to be made, are ones that are more sympathetic to the character of the tracks – stone pitching for example.

lol at that sequence of pictures andy

I agree with mr agreeable as to the surface.
If motorbikes are allowed up it I would have thought the horse riders would have avoided it like the plague.
Now it will become even more popular with motorbikes. Surely an own goal for horsey types.
Someone somewhere must have asked for this ‘improvement’ and someone must have approved it. Can we hunt them down for an official explanation.
No one has won out of this.
PS I’ve never been there can a local tell me who uses that track. My track that got ruined I only ever saw 2 walkers and no horses in the 3 years that I rode it.

Interested to read the horsey brigade comments on Pipehouse. I used to ride this route regularly on my horse albeit [cough] over 20 years ago. It was rocky and steppy – but – perfectly rideable and a good challenge for the horse – plus it meant I didn’t have to trudge down the tarmac past the pig farm towards the bottom of the valley (horses not keen on pig/pig smells!). It’s interesting isn’t it, how the things we thought were fine to ride back then are now too challenging for today’s riders… I see some parallels emerging … 😉

Those comments are about Watery Lane, not Pipehouse.

I just can’t see how you can walk up to the council, ask them to flatten a trail and it happens.
If I asked them to mend the holes in my road I would be fobbed off with a tale of budget cut backs and how its a quiet road with little use.

Is this trend a side effect of the Landfill Tax credit scheme? There are lots of ways this money can be spent, but if you’re a company with a big hole in the ground (landfill), then maybe you’re into making big holes in the ground too (quarry). If you then had to pick which environmental projects to support, why not choose the one where you sell/”pay in kind” a load of stone from your quarry. Neat virtuous circle.

The scheme objectives:

OBJECT A
The remediation or restoration of land which can not now be used because of a ceased activity that used to take place there

OBJECT B
The reduction, prevention or mitigation of effects of pollution that has resulted, or may result, from an activity which has now ceased

OBJECT D
The provision, maintenance or improvement of a public park or other general public amenity

OBJECT DA
The conservation of a specific species or a specific habitat where it naturally occurs

OBJECT E
The repair, maintenance or restoration of a Place of Worship or a Place of Architectural Importance
Overarching Principles:

OBJECT F
The provision of financial, administrative or other similar services by one organisation enrolled with ENTRUST to another

Someone somewhere must have asked for this ‘improvement’ and someone must have approved it. Can we hunt them down for an official explanation.

I’m on the case 🙂

Blimey, hope the chap above was OK.

There are some of his X-ray pics on their site too. Looked nasty!

Is this trend a side effect of the Landfill Tax credit scheme?

Not so sure about here but I think almost certainly elsewhere. Some of the trails between Frome and Shepton Mallet (around the big limestone quarries for example?)

Paradoxically there are trails in the locality that have been ruined by continual use by a (pony) Trekking Centre (again locals will know where and who I mean). Several years ago I got in touch with the Council and (separately) the proprietor to point out the condition of the trails and ask if they would do something to improve drainage / limit use etc. The Council’s answer was ‘no money’ and ‘nothing we can do to limit their use even though it’s commercial’ and the owners comment (not directly to me) “why should I? Deep mud doesn’t stop the horses using them”

As in all cases there is a question of balance I guess.

Searching the IMBA web pages Colin Palmer and IMBA have done some work on this to identify Best Practice (i.e. how it should happen):

http://imba.org.uk/public-rights-of-way/improvement-plans/

The stone pitching solution Mr Agreeable identifies above, coupled with perhaps looking at drainage issues would seem the obvious solution (most costly in the short term, more cost effective in the long term).

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

FFS!

I nearly cried when they flattened all of Nosey Cows in one go in exactly this manner. Not least becuase I’d taken someone over there specifically to ride it.

If the Charmy Down descent gets the same, I’ll be out with a spade to chuck the stone into the nearest field 😡

If Charmy Down gets flattened, I’ll be out with my shoval too.

Went and had a look myself last night 🙁

It looks like the work must have been done a few months ago (Oct/Nov time).

A thick (20-40cm) layer of graded fines throught to fist size lumps of mendip black rock (limstone) have been used to level the trail from bank to bank, across it’s full width, on top of the boulders and loose rock that was there before. In doing so they also ‘flattened out’ the old natural steps.

So over the length that they’ve resurfaced (I’ll measure it properly) that must still mean they’ve used I imagine 300-404 tonnes?

An unsophisticated and relatively cheap “solution” to what might (I stress might) have been seen by some to be a trail in poor condition that needed ‘re-surfacing’

It’s clearly rained since the surface was laid (!) and as pointed out above, deep ruts have already formed, some of them washing away the fill completely in places already.

In some places there are two Landrover wheel sized ruts on either side of the trail. On other sections the water has flowed across the trail. In other sections the ‘fill’ that has been washed down the hill has formed loose mounds.

So, yes it is now arguable more ‘rideable’ (we flew down the first bit then someone hit one of the ruts and got a double pinch flat!).

One of our group said he preferred it that way (!) but he was out voted by the rest of us who liked the ‘unrideable’ 😉 challenge it was before.

I’ve emailed the IMBA rep for the South-West (who many will know and who’s also fairly local). Also the Trail Riders Association to ask what they think. Not yet the Ramblers or local Horsey reps.

Will update this thread as things develop.

As already said, if nothing else then we should at least aim to stop this happening to the other similar local trails.

We went down there today for a bit of a razz
It’s not all bad.
The tech rock steps are gone.
But we cleared the wood from the hollow on the Right in llamas pics and low and behold the old rocks are showing through.
We did about 5 runs on bigger bikes and it was a hoot you can carry so much speed now.
As the rain keeps falling more interesting lines will open up, because they’ve not thought to repair the old pipe which used to carry the water – back in the old days.
It has for now made it more accessible for many who wouldn’t have dared ride it before.
Only problem I can see is I’m travelling at DH speeds and may have had trouble stopping for walkers/horsey types.
I’ll get my pics out in a bit.

So the top is pretty much all this, fist sized rocks with a very loose bed of scalpings, looks like they’ve thrown hundreds of tons in there I’d have said a good 25 to 30 lorry loads
At the top your heart sinks – if you’ve ridden it before as the lines have all gone, but…….

As you can see the old rocky steps – the first big obstacle are covered up – but the line on the left is getting washed away a bit at a time the line round the outside is fast but you can get your techy adventure on still – thanks to Mr Rain

We dragged all of the branches out of the hole on the right just so that if you did happen to venture in – you could get out

We definately weren’t scoping out a high line around the corner that allows a fast rider to give a slower rider in front a little space before the fast straight 🙂

Veiw of the roll in that’s been there a while – I used to use it when it rained as it avoided that first death hole/drop that was usually full of water

This bit has definately seen some 4×4 action – and they’d ripped out a couple of the big stones fron the wall above to make a “Rock Crawl” on the left gutter. They were ridable (Just) so we left them be, as they couldn’t be moved by 1 person.

The bottom of the first straight looking up

Now this is the bit that has annoyed me – the original trail went down there to the left – it was very difficult here – but over time we had cleared a smoother single track line to the right.
It seems that in the resurface they litterally pushed all of the old logs and rocks that were too big for the new trail into this line, thus creating one trail instead of the two that were there – shoddy. 🙁

And what was single track is now 4×4 wide – Gay!!

As you can see though – due to not fixing the drainage – Pipehouse is re making it’s little ruts and troughs again – if you couldn’t ride it before I’d say get your ass down there this year a couple of times a month and learn new skills as the trail develops in it’s own natural way

It won’t take long before these 5in holes are 1ft plus again

See a nice new Berm is developing with the rain errosion, this bit is fun and fast now

This section used to be a deep V shape – with only really one line, in some sections it was barely wide enough for your fork legs to clear – so you had to do little wall rides to keep momentum
No such trouble now

But as you can see some bits are developing a kind of wave to them as the water traverses accross the path, which is making mini doubles to launch off

Looking back up the trail

The last corner where you used to get a good soaking is now loose and dry

there is a sneaky last little hole just after the corners exit so get ready to bunny hop here

The Dirt section further on is unchanged and but you can enter it soo much faster – and you don’t have to stop for a rest, we we’re thinking it’d be cool to host a wee race there, dunno who owns it though..

OBJECT E
The repair, maintenance or restoration of a Place of Worship or a Place of Architectural Importance

That’s what it is Midlifecrashes 🙂

Definately a place of worship for me

We get a lot of ‘sanitizing’ in the dales.

I think your council/pllocks (delete as appropriate) needs to change contractors

All those ruts are caused by water run off – Ive built roads across desert and bog and there is a definite skil to it.

Not only have they wasted a load of subsidised money – ruined what looked like a cracking challenge – they’ve made a right hash of it and all the run off will create more dangerous hazards.

Stone pitching – proper roman that 😉 loads better surface

How much do the council now have to put aside to maintain that track? Total waste of money.

I dunno but seeing as it’s not been touched for 15 years plus
I think they’ve just made a token effort, it’s the likes of us unofficial trail builders that keep them open.
Last year when a tree fell on one of our other favourite trails, I went up with the saw and cleared it stacking the logs to one side. A local busy body asked me what I was doing, I told her that my sister like to ride her Horse there ha ha, if only she knew that evening we’d be ripping it in the dark.
Incidentally it’s the one that runs kinda parallel to this one and goes from the top of the A36 near freshford turn down to Monkton Coombe.
Of course some monkey has since moved the stack and littered them all down the trail.
I’d love to start a local trail crew – but I simply don’t have the time to invest, I tend to do what I can in bursts.

Nice set of pics Fin. I might never have cleared it but still miss the old trail though 🙁

I’d love to start a local trail crew – but I simply don’t have the time to invest, I tend to do what I can in bursts.

Cheers for clearing that tree on Shaggers

Yeah we must hook up some time. We did a few ‘strimming sessions’ last year – the section over the road from Browns toward Conkwell. Three of us, made a hell of a racket, you must have been able to hear us miles away (and I’ve since invested in a new brush cutting blade).

This sort of thing just makes me more likely to ride footpaths. Not the most constructive addition to this thread I do appreciate, but that’s how it is.

Walna Scar, Garburn, The Gap and now Pipe House lane – hardly akin to the deforestation of the Amazon basin I know, but it does sadden me. And that people are really employed at local authorities to carry out this sort of “planning” and we are all paying for the gravel to get laid……?!?

What’s next, maybe Snowdon is too high to be easily accessible by fat folk, so Gwynedd LA will have to skim a thousand meters or so off the top…

Each to their own I guess.
I was the first to scream loud and say no I don’t want it changing, but the difference is I can see the light at the end of the tunnel – sorry bad pun.
It could have been done differently – yes. But it wasn’t and while it’s in it’s current state I can use it more for showing less technical riders how they can improve and build confidence.
Looking at the erosion so far it really won’t be long until it starts displaying its old traits
And who knows that line to the left half way down with all the big boulders may become rideable for some reason (cough) overnight.
Strange things happen in the woods at night 😉
The glass is always half full

Could it be that *shock* many of the tracks and trails we use are also used by farmers to access their land?
If farmer parmer can’t get his wheezing Landy 90 up there he’s bound to resurface.
It seems that our area has plenty of bikers (the bcc over at longleat have shown that with 100 plus members) but no organisation to represent them..
Just lots of small locally active riders – or in some cases riders who think they should be able to ride without any contribution to the land.

UPDATE: I went down Pipehouse this afternoon. The top section has had some maintenance work done since mine and Fin’s photos were taken, the holes caused by water erosion have been filled in.

The gulley on the inside of the corner where the steps were has been filled and the straight after it has also had repair work done. I suspect the reason why this has been done was to get the excavator down which I met working where the trail previously split into two lines. The rest of the trail beyond where the work was being done is in the same water eroded state.

It didn’t look like any different construction techniques were being used so I can’t see the repairs lasting long!

awh I think I saw you, was working on a one of the houses on pipe house lane building stone walls.
were u one a red bike?

I did wonder if it was a stw-er.

Not me, I was on my grey and black bike. Do you have any info about what’s going on from the locals?

awh – Member

… Do you have any info about what’s going on from the locals?

er haven’t heard anything, to be honest I’ve never even been down there,
bit embarrassing since I’ve been working there on and off for the last five years.

building some nice stone walls though 🙂

Yep it’s really getting on my tits now. Went back tonight and they regraded the whole lot.
It’s utterly disgraceful and I can’t see them saying its for ecological reasons as they’ve just smashed through everything

They’ve left their digger and dumper halfway down the trail though. So I’m guessing they still aren’t done with it 🙁
Unless someone who is light fingered happens to know where they are ………… Not suggesting anyone on here would do such a thing

[Daily Mail mode] I hope any of the additional work is just “making good” and they’re not just throwing good money after bad. [/Daily Mail mode]

Enquiries are taking place behind the scenes to find out what’s motivated this work. Hopefully we can prompt them to fix any future trails with a bit more care and sensitivity.

When was the original work undertaken? Pipehouse is known as being a stream most of the year and the current work doesn’t appear to be fixing the problems that caused the rapid erosion of the new surface. Is it going to be repaired after every heavy rainfall?

What ever they are doing they’re making a right bloody ARSE of it……

I’m just going to do my rain dance every evening.

If Andy and Mr Agreeable are up for it, I’m well up for a chat to the local council responsible for this

All I can say is Grrrrrrrr I’m so effing angry tonight I could punch a councillor

I wouldn’t bother getting angry, they are acting on the best information they have, which is that the track is too rough for someone, be it horses, landys or walkers. I think Andy and the local IMBA rep are on to the ROW officer so we’ll see what transpires.