Pike set up- it just feels 'wrong' (xfirm spring)- help

Ok, fitted an xfirm spring and the forks just feel dead/wooden.

Help!

What do I need to do to make the forks more 'active'/plush? The spring was recommended due to my weight (100kg's).

If I've said this once, I've said it a billion times: RS recommended spring weights are mostly on the high side.

I'm about the same weight as you, I ride a firm in my Pikes and it's just about right. I can get away with the standard medium too, it rides fine but just bottoms out a bit too often. I've got a mate who must be around 13st who rides a soft spring in his Pikes for part of the year (He loves messing with suspension, he puts softer springs in in the winter)

Basically, you should have got a firm.

EDIT
Also, I believe that there is possibly some variance in RS springs – That one 'firm' spring might not be quite the same as another 'firm' spring. I can't prove it, but I'm not the only one that thinks this. 🙂

EDIT 2
Also, I've got 140mm Vanillas on my Inbred, and they are spot on with the standard spring in them and a touch of pre-load. Personally, I'd gladly trade U-turn for preload adjustment on coil forks, having had both.

what he said 🙄

Firm here and I weigh around 90kgs' it had a medium in when I was heavier and was ok just a bit too divey.

Its ridiculous, its either pogo-stick like or it just squats. No inbetween.

PP- I'll throw the medium back in- what settings are you running? (mine is the 454 coil- external flood adjust)

it depends how you ride too.

I'm lighter than you and have 2 Pikes both with X-Firm springs and still bottom them too easily at times. spring rate on the two springs feels identical, I run one at 95mm on a dirtjump hardtail and the other at 140mm on a mini DH bike. whereas I have a friend who is heavier than me and ran Firm on his XC bike and and never bottomed his out. (I could bottom out his easily just rolling along and pumping the bars hard)

do you know how the Mo-Co damping settings work? also,I find small bump performance not so good with the heavier springs unless I run them with quite fast rebound settings.

I'm over 16st and the x-firm was way too stiff for me.

do you know how the Mo-Co damping settings work?

Fek yes. I pretty much wrote the book on them….
😉

also,I find small bump performance not so good with the heavier springs unless I run them with quite fast rebound settings.

Should be the other way round, for a given weight of rider: Heavier spring rebounds with more force/faster and therefore needs more damping to control it….. 🙂

didnt PP say use the firm, not the medium?

I really think there is some variation in the springs. At 13 stone kitted out my pikes with the standard spring are a bit hard. Ok I ain't the gnarliest of riders but I ain't the wimpiest either. I cannot bottom out the spring no matter how hard I try ( but do get all but 10 mm of the travel). Even doing endos or landing small jumps on the front wheel with the brake on will not bottom it.

WTF? I wasn't actually talking to you. 😕

and yes, I know it "should" be the other way, but it isn't. get over yourself! 😛

What spring comes as standard then? Mine feel fine for me with what I presume is a medium spring and no compression damping, and I weight about 12 stone. They could maybe be a bit softer but I quite like a firm set up.

WTF? I wasn't actually talking to you.

But I was talking to you. 🙂

Calm down, dear!

TJ – But you're light, weak, lack technique and seem to think you're riding a motorcycle most of the time. 😆

also,I find small bump performance not so good with the heavier springs unless I run them with quite fast rebound settings.

Rebound settings should have no effect on small bump compliance as that is controlled buy the friction in the fork and the compression damping. Are you getting pack down from too much rebound damping?

A tad harsh there GW – remember you taught me my technique 🙂

IIRC the OP is hardly the gnarliest either

Rebound settings should have no effect on small bump compliance as that is controlled buy the friction in the fork and the compression damping

He's right you know. Adjustable compression would make a difference to bump compliance…….

What spring comes as standard then? Mine feel fine for me with what I presume is a medium spring and no compression damping, and I weight about 12 stone. They could maybe be a bit softer but I quite like a firm set up.

Medium.

If I remember rightly according to the RS guide you should have an x-firm!

TJ – 😉

and, Yes. but with nowhere near too much damping.

too much rebound can lead to "pack down" which then will take you onto the harder part of the progressive spring and cause poor small bump compliance

Im 15st and never get full travel with Firm apart from on biggest local DH drops.

IIRC the OP is hardly the gnarliest either

ROFLMAO

But anyway, probably 14.5st and riding the stock spring, feels fine. Ride the firmest (purple?) of the three stock springs in Vanillas though.

Got 454 Airs and think they're the work of the devil / a PITA to set up / not very plush. But then, unlike the OP, I can't really be arsed fannying with forks as I suspectI lack the skills and insight.

Tell you what Hora, I'll swap you my Air 454s for your coils (so long as you've still got he medium spring) ;-P

X-firm?! Ha ha, that's a good guide then! I have not bottomed mine out yet but riding on mud and ice its a bit tricky to get any speed up! I land all my jumps perfectly onto the transition with such smoothness that my suspension hadrly moves anyway … 😉

Yes. but with nowhere near too much damping.

Is it me or does that make no sense? 😉

Anyway, Hora, I would have said the firm spring for you after seeing you and your riding at the weekend. I have Pikes on my pitch and I still have the medium spring in (15.5st, with "enthusiastic" riding 😉 )Seems ok but would like to try the firm spring. £45 a lot of cash to try something though. :-/

I'm 80kg and medium was too soft for me, so I converted mine to dual air, loads better.

But as this thread reveals, the right spring weight aint just your weight, it's how you ride, how the balance of weight (front/back) is on your bike etc. Your weight just gives you a guide.

The rebound seems almost unaffected- able to function. On every descent even if I had the rebound on slow or faster my head feels like its going to be shaken off and the bars are trying to shake me off.

Its almost as there is a very very fine line between the forks packing down with too slow a rebound or pogo-ing me off. **** sweet spot doesnt seem to be there.

Ive obviously had the compression almost fully open as Im nowhere near bottoming them out.

absolutely everyone (nearly) is saying you need the firm and not the x firm, have you tried the firm yet?

Have the floodgate / poploc thingy completely off when setting up the fork. One less variable to worry about. How much sag are you getting?

Set the fork up by firstly checking sag – this shows how much preload ( not adjustable on these forks easily) and what the initial spring rate is like.

Then with all damping at minimum see if you can bottom the fork – checks the final spring rate is right for you. then set the rebound then fiddle with the poploc / floodgate thingy

Yeah, I realise what you're trying to say TJ, but no it's not so bad that the spring doesn't recover and packs down further and further.. but in use testing settings on the same section of DH track over a day I def found the fork just couldn't smooth out the ripples, roots and smaller hits as well unless rebound was set fairly open. the rebound damper on Pikes is a very simple valve is it possible it affects the compression stroke too? I don't know and to be honest, I don't really care as long as I've got settings that works best for me.

PP – being a self proclaimed expert on them, did you test lots of different settings extensively to come to your conlusion? (I do agree with the theory behind all the suspension damping settings/characteristics your spouting, just didn't find what I'd have expected)

tinsy- the diff between firm and xfirm can not be massive can it? Im getting nowhere near full travel on xfirm- its like a stiff stick (the forks).

I've had floodgate completely off- completely on and inbetween. One thing to note- my Lyriks have two clicks between the floodgate settings whereas the Pikes have a fair few- thats normal isnt it?

, how the balance of weight (front/back) is on your bike etc.

I wondered about this too – my Pitch is mega slack and has plenty of rear suspension so maybe it's weighting the forks less than some bikes would.

the rebound damper on Pikes is a very simple valve is it possible it affects the compression stroke too, I don't know and to be honest, I don't really care as long as I've got settings that works best for me.

Quite possible I guess and a pragmatic atitude is always best. If it aint broke don't fix it.

grum – a Pitch is not mega slack, even with Totems.
they are mega long though. so your theory still works

Well not compared to a DH bike I suppose…

I do think that sometimes a better fork or full suss bike can cause confusion. I have changed from an Inbred with revelations to a Pitch Pro. I do still seem to be shaken around like a rock in a tin can but I do seem to go faster than I used to downhill. It's almost as if you ride the fastest you can bear no matter what the bike is, but the better suspension allows you to be at a faster speed when you get to that point.
Last weekend I was riding down Hagg Farm on the Peaks Pootle and was surprised at how much faster I was down it (passed a few folk which was odd!!) but I still felt the same at the bottom as I did on my hardtail. I could pick lines better and stay on them though.
Probably makes no sense but that's my take on it.

Am I missing out on all this suspension tweaking, lucky that my forks "work" or just too naive to realise they could be better?? 😕

Suspension set up still remains a mystery to me anyway. I'm too busy being grateful I'm still on my bike than taking time to consider damping rates. Maybe that's just the dark Peak, it's laughs at anyones attempts to ride across it!!!

Am I missing out on all this suspension tweaking, lucky that my forks "work" or just too naive to realise they could be better?

+1
🙂

You need the Firm spring. Until you get that, no amount of fiddling with settings/oils will help.

, how the balance of weight (front/back) is on your bike etc.

I wondered about this too – my Pitch is mega slack and has plenty of rear suspension so maybe it's weighting the forks less than some bikes would.

Being tall on a 16" 456 you'd think my weight would be over the front but I'm I tend to be centred or over the rear on steep stuff.

I'm sure I have a standard spring in my Lyriks and I've set them up using the compression etc properly.

Hmmmmmmm