I'd bet my bikes that if i do have music on at the volume i normally listen to it then i can still hear more of what's going on around me trhan i can in a car with a radio on.

people need to think more before writing illogical, ill-considered rubbish like this.

ride with music on for about 90% of my on-road rides. (Never really bother with music off-road.) Still alive.

I listen to my music while riding on my own whether it's on the road or not. Most cycling accidents are from drivers who don't pay attention. I always drive in the cycle lanes and last time I was out on the road a car drifted into the cycle lane so I thumped the window to which the bloke went mental at me. How does cycling with headphones differ from driving the car with the tunes blaring?? Depending on the circumstances you soetimes can't hear anything while riding anyway especially if going downhill. Doing 30mph on a bike means that the wind in my ears measn I don't hear much in the way of traffic. How about some of these new eco cars that are quieter than a sowing machine and creep up on you. Surely it comes down to being paying attanetion to your surroundings.

As said previous, its just the same as having your radio on in the car.

I'm not sure it is. People are often fond of saying cars aren't the same as bikes and that goes both ways. In a car you have mirrors, and (on the whole) people aren't treating you the same way that they treat you on your bike. I'm not expressing very well but I don't think it's as straight a comparison as that.

Personally I wouldn't wear earphones on the road (or off road- I've been stuck behind enough oblivious joggers and riders to not want to do it myself) but I'd be wary of coming down too hard on people that do, just because it's shifting responsibilty for sh!t driving to the people on the receiving end of it.

Don't really get the point about deaf cyclists either- it doesn't follow that compromising your senses makes no difference IMO.

. How about some of these new eco cars that are quieter than a sowing machine and creep up on you.

How about them? Are you saying that the fact that some cars are very quiet means that it doesn't matter if you can't hear the ones that aren't?

I'm a moron then. I'm perfectly capable of riding without using my ears, in fact it makes me use my eyes more (which are more reliable than my ears). Roads are boring noisy places, headphones remove than annoyance and there are no situations where earphones will help if you're observing as well as you should be.

As also said above:

Deaf people
Cars with loud music
Cars with headphones
Cars with windows open.

Doesn't make the driver/cyclist less attentive, just means they adapt their senses.

It's just another sly way of attacking cyclists as "shouldn't be on the road".

so people who DONT listen to music never get ran over then??

Surely the lack of a mirror to see what's approaching from behind would have more of a determining effect on the danger a cyclist is in whilst riding than whether or not the cyclist is listening to music.

Unless, of course, the cyclist posesses some kind of bat-like ability to derive spatial awareness from hearing alone.

Thus, everyone cycling without a rear-view mirror is a moron.

Tune in next week for more ill-considered nonsense.

Nicholas Gardiner, the coroner, did the David Kelly inquest. A quick google suggests that he is quite prone to giving a good quote. Far be it from me to suggest that he loves publicity the way sperm whales love giant squid, but…

baldSpot where do you stand on drivers listening to very loud music. Why is it one rule for car drivers and a different rule for other road users. Whilst driving you can chat to people, have music on as loud as you want, talk on a handfree phone, twiddle with the radio/stanav, etc yet you think a cyclist who listens to music is a moron.

I use headphones on my commute but don't turn the music on till I'm off the road. Even then I have it at a volume where I can still hear vehicles. Main reason I don't have the music on when I'm going through traffic is so I can have a chat with other cyclists I meet.

I'd say riding when it's pissing down and blowing a gale is much more distracting than riding with music on. Should we just ride when the weather is fine?

Yet another 'cyclists are all idiots' article and brainless s???? agree without thinking for themselves.

OK lets break this down:

Ears help you identify there is a vehicle definitely present and suggest you use your eyes to be sure.
Eyes help you identify there is a vehicle definitely present.

Ears may trick you by telling you there isn't one present when there is.
Eyes, if used properly by looking over your shoulder when you get to tight spots, won't trick you AND will let you judge distance and speed.

So losing your ears makes you rely on eyes. Eyes are more accurate. Ears add a sense of uncertainty over eyes used alone and correctly.

My solution – use your eyes properly and leave your ears to something else. In cases where you are not expecting to see something but might hear it (stopped at a junction, car approaching from behind too fast/close) – were you going to do anything anyway? If you heard it what would you do in time – very little I suspect?

I think they should ban the wind. Yesterday, it felt like a headwind for the whole 65 miles, and that made hearing the jokes and insults from the riders further back in the group very difficult indeed.

Who do I complain to?

Oh, and I recently ran down a blind man who stepped straight into my path. He was wearing earphones but, and I quote him "I switched my ipod off to cross the road".

See.

Isn't the problem more about the in-ear headphones, that COMPLETELY block the outside world and are becoming standard?

I put tunes on to get up boring climbs, anything to take my mind off the tedium.

Couldn't agree more. The roads are dangerous enough.

In all the years I've been commuting by bike I have always worn headphones. Since back when I used to stick a cassette player in my backpack.
I can say positively and 100% that any of the near misses I've had would have still happened had I not been wearing headphones.
I am far from a "zombie cyclist" and if you think otherwise you are not only a moron but a know-nothing busybody too!

The most dangerous part of my current commute is filtering into a dual carriageway from a roundabout below, as you come up the sliproad there are potentially 3 lanes of traffic. WTF would I listen out for to improve my safety? The "click-click" of car indicators??

What on earth are you on about COffeking?

The roads are dangerous enough.

Would it not be better to find a solution where they are less dangerous to vulnerable users in that case?

Why is it one rule for car drivers and a different rule for other road users. Whilst driving you can chat to people, have music on as loud as you want, talk on a handfree phone, twiddle with the radio/stanav, etc yet you think a cyclist who listens to music is a moron.

Aren't you mixing up different things here? Clearly satnavs, using the phone, kids in the back etc. etc. are bad things as they're distractions, but that doesn't have anything to do with how useful your hearing is on a bike compared to in a car.

Just because B and C are just as bad or worse than A and lots of people do them doesn't mean that A is totally fine.

What on earth are you on about COffeking?

Surely I couldn't explain it any more clearly. I dont understand how to simplify that further. But I'll try:

Eyes and ears is no safer than eyes alone, as people tend to rely on ears too much instead of looking and accurately observing.

i couldnt read the whole article, its drivel that i more typically expect to find in the daily mail. I neither know or have any intention to find out more about its author.

i have in the past used an mp3 for offroad training rides, never if i can ride with company though. Nowadays i prefer to hear the quiet or natural noise that i appreciate as a big part of 'getting out there'

i commute daily on the road and probably use my mp3 50% of the time, its perfectly easy to set volume levels on my 'in the ear'phones so that i can hear my tunes and enough background noise.

but some people on bikes behave like twunts. end of.

MrSalmon if it's all to do with hearing and nothing to do with distraction are you suggesting that deaf people shouldn't ride bikes?

What the nodding dog public fail to understand that this is yet another point won in helping them to 'hate' cyclists

I use headphones whilst on road and off road, when i'm commuting and even make phone calls using handsfree whilst on rides.The only time i dont use music is when out with others or the club rides.At the end of the day i have music on about half volume so not blasting out and can instantly pull one of the ear buds out when necessary.

Coming upto junctions i look round in plenty of time to see exactly whats going on around me rather than relying on sound. Having rode motorbikes made me anticipate others actions as having a thick helmet on, race exhaust and wind noise means you cant hear anything at all on them.

Must admit texting is a nightmare though 😉

i can either txt or roll a fag, but both tends to distract me in heavy traffic.

MrSalmon if it's all to do with hearing and nothing to do with distraction are you suggesting that deaf people shouldn't ride bikes?

Why the need to go to absolutes? That's not what I said. It's certainly not all to do with hearing, but IME hearing is useful and personally I wouldn't want to give it up.

That's clearly not the same as saying that people shouldn't be on the roads without their hearing, and the deaf cyclists thing is IMO a rather emotive argument that blurs the point. So, I'd rather be aware of an ICE car coming up behind me than be startled by an electric car I haven't heard coming. That doesn't mean I'd stop riding if electric cars became commonplace.

The satnav/radio/mobiles in cars argument is unrelated in my opinion. Sure those make things dangerous for us as cyclists, and arguably more dangerous than we make things by giving up our hearing, but I don't follow that it doesn't matter what we do as a consequence, which seems to be what some people are saying.

Just to be clear, I'm not coming down particularly hard on people that choose to listen to music, just saying that waving it away by pointing out that drivers are often distracted is a bit spurious.

I tried rolling a ciggie on the bike too but the baccy went in my eyes 😯

Coffeeking I understood your post. I just think it is completely batty! Yes you shouldn't just rely on your ears but how on earth is losing all the spatial awareness you get from hearing a good thing?

This topic suggests that using headphones whilst riding means you are lose the ability to hear traffic. If you take it to extremes, in terms of volume, then yes thats the case but I can certainly listen to music and hear traffic at the same time.

To say everyone who uses headphones whilst riding is a moron is a pretty stupid satement.

So, I'd rather be aware of an ICE car coming up behind me than be startled by an electric car I haven't heard coming.

How does hearing a car come up behind you make any difference? There are ALWAYS cars on the road, night and day. Hearing them come up doesn't make the slightest difference to how close they are and you can't judge this until you see them.

I don't but understand why ppl do.

Maybe just ear hooked up so you can still hear things around you like people or cars.

Once a lady pulled outof junction by accident and the cyclist didn't notice till I shouted and did one hell of a curve avoiding her and thanked me for yelling-he would be injured if he didn't have ears free.

Music is great but use the near side ear only is good compromise?

The Times is doing a Mail job and ruining cyclist image as ppl look to blame others again.

It's a pathetic genralisation that 'cycling whilst listening to music' is wrong. End.

How does hearing a car come up behind you make any difference? There are ALWAYS cars on the road, night and day. Hearing them come up doesn't make the slightest difference to how close they are and you can't judge this until you see them.

Clearly it's personal, but I like to know as much about what's going on around me as possible, whether or not it's influenced by me knowing about it. Like I said, each to their own.

I only listen to my iPod when out solo on the road bike (not commuting), in no way do I feel it makes me less safe. I'd probably do it on the MTB if I was out solo at night to but then I'm too scared to do that in the first place :p

All pathetic generalisations are wrong.

Yes you shouldn't just rely on your ears but how on earth is losing all the spatial awareness you get from hearing a good thing?

I dont find that I get any spatial awareness from my ears. And/Or maybe that I've no need for that information. Don't get me wrong, I'd rather not be deaf in daily life, but in cycling (and I've been cycle-commuting for nearly 15 years now, 10 of those with personal stereo of some sort) I just don't ever find a situation that would have been better had I only used my ears. Normally any aural observation queues a visual one. I just replace that process and ensure I keep looking where needed.

Let me put it this way. When does having your ears actually HELP when commuting? The only times I can think of are those when looking first (instead of hearing then looking) produces more rapid and accurate reactions. With the wind in your ears and zipping along the only thing I can hear normally is a) a car about 10ft from me or b) a wagon. What information/edge do I get from knowing they're there? I might gain some edge if I heard them start to overtake when a car was coming the other way, but my bike is little over 1m long, if they get caught out while next to me I'm already going to be in visual contact with them whether I heard them approach or not. I might even venture towards saying that people who react to sounds before they see what made them are even mroe of a danger than those who just don't hear them.

cycle commute daily in london with my ipod on for 6 years now
dont think it affects me

can still here traffic noise above my music, look round at every turn and junction and just generally try to keep my wits about me

its just miserable people being miserable and not wanting people to enjoy listening to music or enjoy cycling, it really upsets them to see people having a pleasant commute

the article in question is a prime example of why the times (and all newscorp output) is purile nonsense and should be avoided at all costs

I'm tempted to start my own pro-cycling retort blog to every damn piece the times posts.

Like I said, each to their own

Now that makes total sense. And I think should end the thread 🙂

Not really, it's just a statement that no-one can argue with due to it's inconclusive and non-committal nature.

Once a lady pulled outof junction by accident and the cyclist didn't notice till I shouted and did one hell of a curve avoiding her and thanked me for yelling-he would be injured if he didn't have ears free.

Is that a joke?

Obviously the 'shout' included the direction to swerve and at what angle and speed.

"ok lets break this down", says DJ coffeking 😯 and no your not a moron coffeking, just a little retarded 😆