Out for my weekend ride a week last Sunday, doing the route around the Goyt value near Buxton, fairly popular, well established, legal route, in all the guide books, must have first done it about 15 years ago.For those that know the route, I had jsut ridden up the steep hill past the church, down the steep zig zag road, up the other side and had just taken a right turn by some farm buildings, through a gate with a clear sign saying “restricted byway” and was wheezing my way up hill when I saw waiting for me in the distance the cheery red jacket of a peak park ranger. When I reached him I was greeted by (you’ve guessed it)”you shouldn’t be riding here”. I pointed out that this was a restricted byway which is legal for bikes, which was news to him. He then suggested I go back the way I had come, and turn right along a public footpath. I told him that this would not be legal, which was again news to him. Basically he had no idea of rights of way as applied to bikes, had no idea of the status of the track we were on, and just didn’t think I should be riding there. I suggested that before challenging people, he should improve his knowledge of rights of way legislation, and familiarise himself with the area he was patrolling, to which he eventually said “fair point”.

What is it with these little Hitlers? What is the point in them? What sort of person volunteers to spend their weekends harassing peope with no good reason? Do they have any training? Why are mountain bikers viewed as fair game to have a go at?

On the long climb up to Derbyshire Bridge, I wondered why we have these rangers at all, and then got to thinking why we have organisations like the Peak Park authority? Times are hard, surely these useless penpushers should be first against the wall? I noticed some Peak residents have similar views, there is a website peak park watch (? or something simlar)which aims to point out the incompetence and lack of transparency/democracy associated with the PP authority.

Anyone else had dealings with PP rangers, or rangers in other national parks?

its like any job, you get some good, some bad. ive had a run in with an old fella (ranger) at the goyt (while i was riding on the road – he shouted in a tw4tty tone ‘hope you arent going off road round here, there’s nowhere you can ride’, to which he got a V), so wouldnt surprise me if it was the same guy.

On the flip side, I’ve had some good chats with the rangers in the dark peak/hope valley side. In fact ive never had any bad experiences with rangers in that bit of the peak. maybe they are more used to MTBers?

What sort of person volunteers to spend their weekends harassing peope with no good reason?

Most of the big hitters on here?

😉

We were stopped a year or so ago riding up the Roman Road from Hope towards Hope cross, to be told ‘this isn’t a bridle way, you have no right to be on here’
To which we informed him of his error, so out came his map pointing at where we were & the fact it was a footpath-He was pointing at the wrong track & didn’t really know where he was, great for a Park Ranger!
He must have felt a little silly.

to which he eventually said “fair point”.

What is it with these little Hitlers?

I don’t think Hitler is best remembered for saying “fair point” when challenged.

There’s always one. You get some good rangers, some bad.
A couple of years ago I met three rangers at the top of a hill having a brew. They could see me looking down the footpath descent off there rather than the obvious BW and one said “You’re not allowed to ride that way.” before adding “Well, not while we’re around anyway!”

Really relaxed attitude, had a good chat with them, they walked off and I rode the FP. 🙂

Equally, out in a group of 3 one day, we got turfed off the FP descent of Rushup Edge and told to ride the parallel BW, in spite of the fact that the BW was much more muddy and we’d be doing far more erosion. 🙄

My response in these situations:

‘I don’t claim to have any right but I’m going to ride my bike anyway’

to which he eventually said “fair point”.

What is it with these little Hitlers?

I don’t think Hitler is best remembered for saying “fair point” when challenged.

More’s the pity

I got exactly the same at the bridleway at the bottom of stanage pole, the ranger was stood next to the bridleway sign trying to tell me it was a footpath!

Why don’t you complain to the PDNPA? if these ‘rangers’ are commissioned to do a specific job and they are wrongly diverting their attention to cyclists on Bridleways and the like, I’m pretty sure the PDNP will want to know about it!

There are incompetent and arrogant graphic designers; it doesn’t mean we’re all like that.

Resist the temptation to tar all with the same brush.

The Peak District National Park Authority welcomes and promotes responsible cycling and has many staff and volunteers who actively take part in cycling, both on and off surfaced highways.
We are concerned to see some of the comments on this thread and want to resolve any issues. So, as suggested by highclimber and jackthedog, it would be helpful if anyone who encounters issues could please let us know either by email customer.service@peakdistrict.gov.uk or by ringing us on 01629 816200. We will be happy to look into any individual cases for you. We can only help when we are made aware of any issues so would appreciate your support on this.”
Peak District National Park Authority rangers

I call Godwin’s Law; in the OP of all places!

edit: Now why doesn’t that link work… the syntax looks perfect to me!

edit2: It appears that STW can’t cope with apostrophes in URLs. I refuse to bow to pressure by grammatically compromising a URL just to get it to display!

8)

Just a thought – having watched the programme recently (anti 4×4 one), the Peaks guys came across really well.

Restricted Byways can mean no cycling depending on the restriction. Is the OP 100% sure that the ranger wasn’t right?

good answer from peakdistrictnpa.

Restricted Byways can mean no cycling depending on the restriction. Is the OP 100% sure that the ranger wasn’t right?

portlyone, I think you may be mistaken:

A restricted byway can be legally used by walkers, horse riders, cyclists, and horse drawn carts and carriages.

From the Peak District NPA website. And even The Ramblers say the same thing.

MI – Could be I’ve just seen one thing in a city and assumed it was the same all over.

I’ve seen no cycling signs on resticted byways before:

http://g.co/maps/ckfhz

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?X=380178&Y=391402&A=Y&Z=115

I’ve also been challenged by a peak park ranger, again the ‘you’re not allowed to ride here’ dropping down the plantation bridleway off stanage edge
On asking where the bridleway to the plantation drops off the edge he reffered me to the stanage pole main track (not a bridleway)
It came to him getting his map out, me pointing out where I had come from and where we were and him then checking the dashes in the map key to find its a bridleway ..

(I’ll try getting round to emailing later, not just moaning on a forum etc .. )

RB’s can be restricted to exclude lots of things. Rare but possible.

If we’re glass-half-full about all this, the ranger in the OP has learnt something, accepted he was wrong and in the future no other cyclists should be hassled on that bit of trail (which I know very well, being the first mountain bike “route” I ever did). We should be thankful he was willing to acknowledge his mistake; I’ve encountered land-owners who wouldn’t.

Mattsccm – fraid you are wrong. RB is a statutory definition, a class of highway created under the CROW Act 2000 and enabled in 2006.

I am not sure it was a Ranger. In the Dales (where I live) we have rangers, there are about 25 over the whole Park who are paid employees of the Park. They are very knowledgeable and wouldn’t make such a basic mistake. There are however ‘wardens’ who are volunteer members of the public, who do get the badged up clothes but are very much amateurs (and sometimes petty-busy-bodies)

Mattsccm – fraid you are wrong. RB is a statutory definition, a class of highway created under the CROW Act 2000 and enabled in 2006.

Yeah, that was my understanding of it too. In which case portlyone could probably challenge that no cycling sign in Sale as being incorrect and get it removed. Of course, the OS map isn’t the definitive map and the local authority may well have changed the status of the RoW in question so that it’s no longer an RB. It does appear to have a FP sign on it…

i used to have the displeasure of working (thankfully in-frequently) with a part time Peak District Ranger

he made it very clear that he absolutly hated all mountain bikers, and climbers, day trippers, families; in fact he resented anyone who dared to tread on ‘his peaks’

used his position to vent his bile on others, this was a few years ago (7-8) so not sure if he’s still working, i very much hope – for every poor sole who ventures there – he’s not

They can still have restrictions. Equally they can still be vehicular.

the OS map isn’t the definitive map

I tried riding down a trail that was clearly marked as a bridleway on my OS map. The fingerpost did say it was a footpath, as did the landowner who stopped me. Curiously the older OS map (or maybe the newer, I can’t remember) showed it as a footpath. In this case it looked just like an error on the map. It was a rubbish trail anyway 🙁

It nice to see that the Peak District National Park Authority are taking an active approach to sorting any potential issues, knowing that people are more likely to complain on t’interwebs than contacting them directly. 😛

I call Godwin’s Law; in the OP of all places!

Maybe you should try reading what you’re trying to link to – it might help you work out why it isn’t.

In general, does any countryside ranger, paid volunteer or whatever, have any right to tell any member of the public where they should or shouldn’t be riding? If I understand the law correctly, trespass is a matter between the landowner and the trespasser only. They might argue they are acting as the landowner’s “agent” but do they have any legal right to turf you off?

Yes

If I understand the law correctly, trespass is a matter between the landowner and the trespasser only. They might argue they are acting as the landowner’s “agent” but do they have any legal right to turf you off?

Peak Park (and other) National park Byelaws which have (unenforced) punitive penalties for pedalling are the problem then again the NT, SCC and YW as large landowners could just grant open access rather than legal minimum and a few token gestures

They might argue they are acting as the landowner’s “agent” but do they have any legal right to turf you off?

If they succeed in such an argument, then yes.

So the whole Peaks NP is covered by a bylaw preventing cycling anywhere except on Bridleways and above? Is this true in any of the other NP’s?

then again the NT, SCC and YW as large landowners could just grant open access rather than legal minimum and a few token gestures

As far as the NT is concerned, go to their website and anybody who challenges you on NT land, show ’em this:

Guiding principles
1. The National Trust welcomes cyclists on its land and encourages cycling both as an activity and as a means of transport, recognising the benefits to health and that responsible use causes negligible damage to the environment.

2. New opportunities for cyclists should be reviewed regularly within the management planning process and the different needs of touring and off-road cycling recognised.

3. Irresponsible behaviour should be discouraged, eg excessive speed, lack of consideration for others and cycling techniques which cause erosion.

cheers neil, I’ll be using that next time I cycle past a no bikes sign on front (sorry trust) land, should help my Basingstoke linear one way no end ……

Strictly speaking you could have a TRO specifying no cycling on a RB – although I’ve never heard of this happening – or indeed a specific bylaw, which is why the ranger / warden could lawfully ask you to stop.

However to be enforcable the restriction would still need to be correctly signed (including people getting ‘no biking’ signs wrong!), and if they’re put up incorrectly – even by well meaning volunteers – it defeats the whole point.

Good to see peakdistrictnpa posting BTW

Good of the PDNP to get in touch, couldn’t get the link to work so I’ve left a comment on the PDNP website, interesting to see what happens.

In reply to one comment, this guy was definitely a ranger, had the red fleece with ranger plastered all over it. As regards to the legality of this route, it was definitely a restricted byway, which I had always assumed was OK for bikes, and this route has been used (and still is used) by many MTB folks (and horses).

Must say after 20 years of climbing, running, walking and biking in the peaks, this is the first contact I have had with one of these guys, and it did not create a good impression. No big deal really, but if this guy doesn’t know the basics, is it he as an individual who is at fault, or is it some problem with the training that these guys get?