…tiny minds use STW

SO to get back on topic.

Goood account in this book

For those that missed the first part like me, BBC iPlayer are showing it (for a limited time) here.

If you plug up your PC to your TV, he quality is generally pretty damn good…internet connection allowing of course.

and it’s repeated on BBC3 on Sunday.

Watched this last night for the first time… Seriously good and a must watch to see what its really like out in Afgan’!

and it’s repeated on BBC3 on Sunday.

Ooh, even better. Thanks for the tip.

I live in the same village Chris Gray did as his family still does. I’m sure he didnt sign up to die in Afganistan but he served his country, our country with pride and great courage. He is a hero in our eyes. I know a lot of people in the village couldnt watch the programme as it was too upsetting for them.
Every time I pass our war memorial I see the names from WW1 WW2 and then,

Afganistan
Private Chris Gray
2007

He was only 19

Sorry if this seems a ramble it has affected me being so close to home. Watching the programme the other night really moved me, it chilled me to the bone.

Well done Pants/Si. wished i was there with you.

Shaun.

Watching the programme the other night really moved me, it chilled me to the bone.

I think it did all of us mate, which is why the debate gets so impassioned.

Pants – Empty post?

Watched this on iPlayer yesterday, good stuff. Only criticisms I could find were the failure to mention exactly why the Twin Towers were attacked, and the ROE where anyone with a weapon was a fair target, hardly a sound policy in a country where any farmer worth his salt is armed with the ubiquitous AK!

After discussion with the good lady, and on the promise of not repeating any of the strong language, we also let our 10 year old watch it (he loves the forces because just about every male member of our family have served or is serving). He found it sad, as we all did, but it opened his eyes to war non-Hollywood style. Mind you, he’s now in the garden laying down suppressing fire, so perhaps it didn’t quite have the desired effect!

Looking forward to part 2 when we get time.

Saw it last night. Aside from some of the sentimental stuff, I thought it was a very good programme. Brings home the reality of what it’s like to be in a war zone. Sod that. Not for me thanks. Fair play to the people that do it though, regardless of the politics.

Don’t see why Seossamh should receive such vitriol for expressing his/her onion though. Raises some fair points tbh. Maybe they cooduv worded it a bit better, but I really don’t like the way any criticism of British armed involvement abroad is met with such anger and hate. We need folk to oppose war, at all times. War should only ever be the absolute last resort, when all other options have been tried and have failed. Not to serve the megalomaniacal urges of self-serving politicians seeking a ‘legacy’.

Don’t see why Seossamh should receive such vitriol for expressing his/her onion though. Raises some fair points tbh.

because of their op. one thing OUR armed forces are not is muppets

SO to get back on topic.

Goood account in this book

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Attack-State-Red-Richard-Kemp/dp/0141041633/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1307616753&sr=8-1

Thanks, ordered when i read that and it came this morning. Read the first few chapters, seems good 🙂

We need folk to oppose war, at all times. War should only ever be the absolute last resort, when all other options have been tried and have failed. Not to serve the megalomaniacal urges of self-serving politicians seeking a ‘legacy’.

Sage words indeed.

I’m all for sending our guys to battle an enemy that is threatening our shores (here and abroad), but not so keen when the people we are fighting A: used to be our betest buddies who we trained and funded to beat the Ruskies when it suited us, and B: are not threatening us.

one thing OUR armed forces are not is muppets

I don’t know, I reckon there’s probably the same proportion of muppets as in the general population.

just watched it on iplayer.

it all seems quite futile, doesn’t it.

their sargeant (name rhyming with ‘binter’) came across as being quite incompetant at his job. the other sergeant at the front seemed much better.

i don’t think i’d want to be under the command of the ‘binter’ guy.

i don’t understand why they were sent to depend this empty, isolated in his town, Now Zud. but then i’m not a military commander.

but most of these guys were literally just boys. quite sad.

i have empathy for the situation that they were/are in, but do not respect their decision to sign up. each one of them knew the dangers that came with being a soldier . each of them knew that there was a war going on (one of the lads – and i presume many others – was just 14 when 9/11 happened). did that play a part in them deciding to sign up? were they excited by the idea of “seeing action”, being given a gun to shoot?

none of them were forced to sign up.

incidently, i caught the end of the Wooton Basset program that was shown this evening. again, very sad. but each one of those returning in a coffin knew the dangers they would face. and consequently that their chances of meeting an un-natural end was much higher.

good luck to anyone embarking on a military career…

three cheers for the muppets willing to shoot someone for a pittance, never understood that mentality.

@sesame… (think that’s your handle)… Really? If you have an argument that mnd of approach isn’t going to convince anyone.

@yossarian the west had been trying to connect with the taliban for a long time. I think much of what you say is good, but it isn’t always possible. While with hindsight the Iraqi war seems to have been wrong, there is clear evidence that Afghanistan had become a military camp for terrorists. What would you have done to stop it being one. It was clearly an effective training base, the continuing problems today still steming from there. With hindsight it was our unwillingness to tackle extremism in the past that led to the problems.

They may disagree with western capitalism but so do China. They seem to have worked around it. Islamic extremism exists amongst a minority and exploits that minority. Let’s not make excuses for the taliban either.

It was a very thought provoking programme and made me think why are those poor boys being exposed to such incompetence, both politically and practically. Maybe they did underestimate what being a soldier really meant. Maybe they got it wrong some of them. I think 18 year olds can make mistakes. We feed ourselves enough of our own style of propaganda about war. The same as an 8 year old afghan child I saw in a documentary many years ago, with older men playing him the audio on a cassette of his father being killed in a fire fight. That young boy being groomed back then could have been one of those men behind the trees. A little far fetched to be true possibly, but the reality may not be too far away.

I watched it on iPlayer last night too.
I thought that the sergeant was flapping far too hard, which wouldn’t affect his blokes well. Seemed to improve a bit later though and came across as a decent chap in the interview.
Great program, whatever you view of our armed forces. I thought Mrs Gray seemed very dignified, but I did feel sorry for the poor lad who was so badly affected by the tour; I hope that he wins the fight with his demons and leads a full and happy life.

But they admitted the first contact was a learning curve.

I think they all acted incredibly well. But I couldn’t understand why, if it was standard practice to use the hammocks as stretchers they hadn’t been taught to do something about the ties. Also, I am aware all troops have to experience contact for a first time… But to be put at point? Surely that doesn’t stand up to reason?

@sesame… (think that’s your handle)… Really? If you have an argument that mnd of approach isn’t going to convince anyone

I think this thread is evidence enough that any approach isn’t going to convince anyone with their heart set on supporting the troops regardless..

“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.”

“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.”

You watch that scene from a few good men on a daily basis don’t you? 😀

It’s not in a few good men.

It’s not in a few good men.

I know.

PIN PULLED!!!

Some good valid discussion points on this thread, each has there own views, however.

The Sergeant was the same chap throughout ep 1 and he had to get his troops moving as they were startled rabbits in headlights! Of course he was slightly flapping, who would not in that situation, one guy wounded, one guy possibly dead and loads of bullets coming your way with no mercy!
The stretcher was not an ideal piece of kit and has been improved no end since, the straps get tied up and sometimes come undone, crap happens! Alot was learnt from day and alot of other training went on in camp.

I thought the progarmme came across very well as did so many others, no pland survives contact with the enemy!

Soldiers join up and deploy on Ops with the knowledge that they might get killed that’s the nature of the job and we just get on with it, it happens it happens!!

OUT!

Flapping? I’d have squeezed myself into a gap the size of my arsehole and would still be there now. I suspect people who don’t flap in situations like that exist in films or shoot em’ups on PS3 only.

Casualty extracted with no further major injuries or losses sounds like a pretty good result to me, wgaf whether there was a bit of shouting and the odd c-bomb being chucked about.

The next episode is on now folks.

Just missed the start, mother in-law yapping on phone. Will catch it on iPlayer.

Astounded that someone could sit at their keyboard presuming to criticise soldiers at war. Astounding.

yup, it beggars belief! but then if we agree on everything, there would be no arguements ergo this thread forum wouldn’t exist

Astounded that someone could sit at their keyboard presuming to criticise soldiers at war.

Germans didn’t criticise their soldiers at war during the 1930s a 1940s. Still astounded?

I hope that’s not directed at me dezb. I’ve done my time in a front line unit thanks.

Astounded that someone could sit at their keyboard presuming to criticise soldiers at war. Astounding.

Why? Do i need to take up a gun and go an join the afghans to be able to have an opinion? don’t talk nonsense…

seosamh77 – Member

Astounded that someone could sit at their keyboard presuming to criticise soldiers at war. Astounding.

Why? Do i need to take up a gun and go an join the afghans to be able to have an opinion? don’t talk nonsense…

Not at all.

You could do us and the human race as a whole a great service and follow the Bobby Sands diet plan for a period of no less than 66 days though.

I specifically meant Alpin’s post.
Calling someone incompetent just cos he’s seen a bit of it on the telly.
I would call someone a **** for calling me incompetent at my job.

DezB – Member
I specifically meant Alpin’s post.
Calling someone incompetent just cos he’s seen a bit of it on the telly.
I would call someone a **** for calling me incompetent at my job.

He said he ‘came across as incompetent’ which is quite different